LGR4GM Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 1 minute ago, oddoublee said: One season slugger. It happens. I like Cozens. I have questions about his ability to be a top 2C. That's not a stretch thought. Slugger, lol. Btw, it's actually the past 2 seasons in a row Cozens and Tage have been better. I'd pull the stats but, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Shheesh ... when does the season start ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Shheesh ... when does the season start ?? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 22 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: So what are your alternative choices? Which free agents do you want? I listed the "dream scenario" since you asked but obviously I know full well that they are a dream that won't happen. My original comment was I don't think we're getting much in free agency and I don't think players will want to come to Buffalo. Those that do will be over pays or the unwanted (relatively speaking). I could list more guys I like and you could crap on them and say they'll be too expensive or bad choices but there's no point to that. Your turn. You list some names so I can give reasons why they suck. I didn't crap on them. I don't have a list of dream free agents because I don't agree that none will come here and also don't agree that overpaying them to do is a good idea. I asked a legitimate question about Lindholm. If the reports of him wanting $9M AAV are true, the Sabres have to pay what $10M? Is that a good amount of money to pay a player with his stat line and what role would he be? I don't think he's worth it. With Zadarov I said he was spurned by this organization once before, why would he want to come back? What role? My apologies if this offended you. It was not my intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 (edited) 17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: Elias Petterson 82 games 34 goals 89 points +20 and yet in playoffs Elias Lindholm 13 games 10 pts. +4 Elias Petterson 13 games 6 pts +0 You stats guys and gals will never get it. k Edited June 10 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Is Sam Bennett a UFA? Ekholm? I'd target them, Marshessault, Stamkos, Kaner and heavily explore the trade market I still would like a quality veteran goalie as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, LTS said: I didn't crap on them. I don't have a list of dream free agents because I don't agree that none will come here and also don't agree that overpaying them to do is a good idea. I asked a legitimate question about Lindholm. If the reports of him wanting $9M AAV are true, the Sabres have to pay what $10M? Is that a good amount of money to pay a player with his stat line and what role would he be? I don't think he's worth it. With Zadarov I said he was spurned by this organization once before, why would he want to come back? What role? My apologies if this offended you. It was not my intent. I'm not offended, but I want to see an alternative rather than just a critique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 21 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Slugger, lol. Btw, it's actually the past 2 seasons in a row Cozens and Tage have been better. I'd pull the stats but, Saw this for the first time recently and it was good not great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: I'm not offended, but I want to see an alternative rather than just a critique. Got it. I just don't have alternatives as I'm not interested in overpaying which is what you are saying will most likely have to occur to get them to come to Buffalo. Just questioned back to see what you think is a fair over payment for the players you suggested and where you would see them slotted in. I don't see Lindholm as worth anything north of $6M. I don't see Zadarov as worth much either. Joshua is the enigma.. potential late bloomer but just as easily could be one season and done. I'd probably kick the tires pretty good on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddoublee Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: k And here I thought you didn't give a damn. You are a little trickster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, Thorny said: Saw this for the first time recently and it was good not great That's an accurate description. It's long, the pacing is painfully slow in parts, but it truly is a sweeping spectacle. This is more fun. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 3 hours ago, LTS said: Got it. I just don't have alternatives as I'm not interested in overpaying which is what you are saying will most likely have to occur to get them to come to Buffalo. Just questioned back to see what you think is a fair over payment for the players you suggested and where you would see them slotted in. I don't see Lindholm as worth anything north of $6M. I don't see Zadarov as worth much either. Joshua is the enigma.. potential late bloomer but just as easily could be one season and done. I'd probably kick the tires pretty good on him. But watch, some team like Boston will sign Lindholm to 8 million or something and this board will go "oh it's too much, they are stupid, contract won't age well etc" and then watch that team win their division and go on a playoff run. It's time to stop thinking about winning every trade and worrying about future cap numbers and rather actually trying to make the team the best it can be and win now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: But watch, some team like Boston will sign Lindholm to 8 million or something and this board will go "oh it's too much, they are stupid, contract won't age well etc" and then watch that team win their division and go on a playoff run. It's time to stop thinking about winning every trade and worrying about future cap numbers and rather actually trying to make the team the best it can be and win now. I wholly agree with the sentiment. I also think $8 million for Lindholm would be a mistake. We should prioritize buying out Skinner, getting UPL extended and then using the $25 million left to rework the roster into that of a playoff team. Next year is next year. I’m not saying we should be reckless, but we should not be worrying about how we are going to pay Peterka, Quinn and Byram. Best case scenario is things go well for the team and its players, and a year from now some very tough decisions need to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Archie Lee said: I wholly agree with the sentiment. I also think $8 million for Lindholm would be a mistake. We should prioritize buying out Skinner, getting UPL extended and then using the $25 million left to rework the roster into that of a playoff team. Next year is next year. I’m not saying we should be reckless, but we should not be worrying about how we are going to pay Peterka, Quinn and Byram. Best case scenario is things go well for the team and its players, and a year from now some very tough decisions need to be made. I disagree with the idea of not having the foresight in how we'd sign our own players. Not that means we need to leave 8 mil in cap this year to prepare but let's not just hand out giant contracts to middling players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 35 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: I disagree with the idea of not having the foresight in how we'd sign our own players. Not that means we need to leave 8 mil in cap this year to prepare but let's not just hand out giant contracts to middling players. I don’t think we should proceed without foresight either. I just don’t think we should be waiting for players on ELCs to earn big raises before we prioritize being good. I think we probably agree on that. If we make moves this off-season that help us make the playoffs and Quinn and Peterka have such great years that they earn big contracts and the moves we made prevent us from keeping both players, that isn’t tragic. It’s the price of doing business. I’m not saying we should be reckless, but we should not be waiting on something that might not occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 16 minutes ago, Archie Lee said: I don’t think we should proceed without foresight either. I just don’t think we should be waiting for players on ELCs to earn big raises before we prioritize being good. I think we probably agree on that. If we make moves this off-season that help us make the playoffs and Quinn and Peterka have such great years that they earn big contracts and the moves we made prevent us from keeping both players, that isn’t tragic. It’s the price of doing business. I’m not saying we should be reckless, but we should not be waiting on something that might not occur. I want to say this is not a post disagreeing per say with the gist of what you have here. We need to add talent and figure out next year next year. As you note we shouldn't do it recklessly. I just wanted to note JJP is going to earn a bigger contract unless he falls completely flat on his face which seems unlikely. He had 50pts last year including 28g on a 12.4sh% which is very sustainable. His possession metrics show he generated more than what was generated against him. Still none of the numbers seem like massive outliers but instead a steady progression from his first season to the second. This isn't Dakota Joshua outshooting his career sh% by 10 or Reinhart doing the same by 9%. I think we realistically need to think about JJP in the 6-7 range. Now some think that Jack Quinn is harder to predict but I disagree. Quinn's injuries seem to be the concering factor and that is something to account for, it may just help us out. If they are the flukes they seem (the achilles one is crazy unlucky) than that is a guy who coming back from injury managed to increase his gpg from 0.19 to 0.33 and his apg from 0.31 to 0.37 and keep in mind Cozens was snake bitten while shooting last year. That's 27g and 30a or 57pts over an 82 game season. Once again we have a player that realistically is in that 6-7mil range. I don't think we are waiting on anything to occur is my point. Both players are at the 2nd line range of player already and for a 23yr old 25g scorer with solid metrics all around on the open market (yes they can't become UFAs) you are talking 6-7mil this summer. I want to add to the team for sure but I would be focusing on either adding a center like Ek or finding a big winger (not Tkachuk, I don't think its possible) that changes the mix. Lindholm as an example, is neither of those things and was bad last year for a guy asking for something like 8milx7yrs. The key is finding a player that fits the now and is good while also not totally ruining things going forward because the goal is not making the playoffs, it is winning the cup. JJP, Quinn, and Benson are the types of players you win cups with and I would hate to see them pushed out just as they enter their prime because we signed a 30yr UFA to a 6year deal where he is overpaid but several million. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, thewookie1 said: I disagree with the idea of not having the foresight in how we'd sign our own players. Not that means we need to leave 8 mil in cap this year to prepare but let's not just hand out giant contracts to middling players. This applies just as much to mattias Samuelsson, Dylan Cozens, and JJ Peterka as it does to Elias Lindholm. Every long-term contract is a bet. Also, I think the concern over being able to resign Peterka and Quinn is a bit overstated. The Sabres control their rights for 5 more years. They don't have to give them 7-year, $50M deals next summer. Edited June 11 by dudacek 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 One last thing, we might need 9million to get Benson under contract in another 2 years. Zach Benson is going to be an absolute stud and if he adds 20% more speed, one of the best to ever play in the blue n gold. 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: This applies just as much to mattias Samuelsson, Dylan Cozens, and JJ Peterka as it does to Elias Lindholm. Every long-term contract is a bet. Also, I think the concern over being able to resign Peterka and Quinn is a bit overstated. The Sabres control their rights for 5 more years. They don't have to give them 7-year, $50M deals next summer. Also very true. We could always bridge them past skinner if needed or closer to the end of Tage or Cozens deal if they need trading etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: But watch, some team like Boston will sign Lindholm to 8 million or something and this board will go "oh it's too much, they are stupid, contract won't age well etc" and then watch that team win their division and go on a playoff run. It's time to stop thinking about winning every trade and worrying about future cap numbers and rather actually trying to make the team the best it can be and win now. Right, this could happen. Do you think if the Sabres signed him to the same deal he'd have the same success as if he signed in Boston or some other team? How much is the rest of the team? How much is the culture? How much is the coach? How much of last year was the players and how much was the coach? We tend to swing the blame depending on which argument is being made but ultimately there is a ratio of blame and it should not change. There are some players that are not worth being on the roster and the coach did not get the most out of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 5 hours ago, thewookie1 said: I disagree with the idea of not having the foresight in how we'd sign our own players. Not that means we need to leave 8 mil in cap this year to prepare but let's not just hand out giant contracts to middling players. You mean like Cozens and Power right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, LTS said: Right, this could happen. Do you think if the Sabres signed him to the same deal he'd have the same success as if he signed in Boston or some other team? How much is the rest of the team? How much is the culture? How much is the coach? How much of last year was the players and how much was the coach? We tend to swing the blame depending on which argument is being made but ultimately there is a ratio of blame and it should not change. There are some players that are not worth being on the roster and the coach did not get the most out of the team. To the first paragraph no, I don't think he'd have the same level of success in Buffalo as in Boston, but that's not the question. The question would be can adding him get us enough more wins to make the playoffs? To the second paragraph yes, we haven't had a real NHL coach (as I've said before) since Ruff and now it's Ruff again. Older and wiser or burned out memory from yesteryear? Remains to be seen. I think a good hire and I think it'll help, but I do not want to go in just thinking he can magically change everything. I want a lineup put in place that will allow him to be the coach he can be. Fill the holes and let's put it all together rather than just trying one thing and wasting another year. Ruff needs to have enough of a roster that should he need to bench Skinner (or somebody else) he can and he can then whip them into shape. We don't want him handcuffed with a have to play this guy or that guy cause there's no alternative scenario. You can't coach successfully in that, nobody can. Edited June 11 by PerreaultForever 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 55 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: You mean like Cozens and Power right. I mean to UFAs who are in their later 20's or early 30's. Lindholm for instance has priced himself out of range for the Sabres. Not a chance in hell Id offer him 1-8. Power and Cozens are investments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 22 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: I mean to UFAs who are in their later 20's or early 30's. Lindholm for instance has priced himself out of range for the Sabres. Not a chance in hell Id offer him 1-8. Power and Cozens are investments But if you invest in the wrong thing.................... I knew what you meant and my comment was joking but there's a point to be made there. You spend money or you don't. You make decisions on thinking certain players will be all that or you don't pay them. There's no difference with these "investments" or with free agent signings. We've grossly overpaid Skinner. At the moment we are overpaying Cozens by a lot and Power. Matter of fact as I've said, at the moment they are all overpaid except Peterka and UPL (yet). (I'm not counting rookie deals like Benson) The key isn't wise investments or prudency or any mathematical formulas it's just can we make the team better and get in the playoffs or not. Adams needs to do whatever it takes to make that happen. If a free agent is too expensive make a trade. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/hosts/sabres-live Within this link is a 15 segment where the two hosts talk about the players they would want the Sabres to pursue in the offsesason. Many of the players they are interested in are the same players that many here mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFinn Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Since Sabres has invested money in young promising players and also have a promising prospect pool, the next thing is to invest in is two or three players that help the youngsters take the next step. It is like real estate business, you invest and then ad something to the investment to get some profit. How you do the complementary investment is what makes the difference, and unfortunately those are the skills I have doubts in at Sabres hockey management. And it can't go wrong this time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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