UFAs Sabres may want to sign

[Thorner]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:34 PM, shrader said:

I’m still convinced that they keep reading Joshua’s name backwards. 

Mason Raymond ish 

[Taro T]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Mason Raymond ish 

Nah, that one's just what his parents expected his profession to be and then his 1st name.  Kinda like Dr. Phil.  😉 

[LTS]

23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So? What's your point? Nobody here knows much of anything. We're all just fans speculating, hoping, wishing. Some of us just have a better grip on reality and a little more objectivity. But carry on, just diminish and attack with no added value. If it makes you feel better to post that my post is no good have at it. The Bills aren't the Sabres. The Bills are a contender. 

Nobody wants to come here. If you believe otherwise, you are like a deer in the headlights, in whoever's back yard. 

and then you miss the playoffs forever. 

Consider just drafting. How many players do you get? How many years does that take? By the time you have enough, you are losing free agents. It won't work. 

The NHL is littered with bad UFA deals and over payment.  There are some notably good deals as well, but very often the UFA signings are bad. Elsewhere there is a good point about Minnesota and the hill they face because of Parise and Suter deals, etc.

You don't miss the playoffs forever. It's not that absolute. Doom and gloom.

For the sake of conversation, in your world, what player is the target and how much are you willing to overpay to get them?

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

The NHL is littered with bad UFA deals and over payment.  There are some notably good deals as well, but very often the UFA signings are bad. Elsewhere there is a good point about Minnesota and the hill they face because of Parise and Suter deals, etc.

You don't miss the playoffs forever. It's not that absolute. Doom and gloom.

For the sake of conversation, in your world, what player is the target and how much are you willing to overpay to get them?

In my world? Well each move depends on other moves so it's hard to list off more than one guy cause if you don't get him plan B changes. 

The first thing is I want us to spend (wisely) and be closer to a cap ceiling team than a cap floor team. 

I just posted about the Erikson Ek rumor. I'd really like that potential trade. You make that trade a lot of free agency becomes moot.

I will keep it simple. If we could add Lindholm, Zadorov and Joshua I'd be in heaven. Unrealistic but a nice dream. 

We need a solid veteran 2 way center. We need 2 or even 3 veteran grit guys. Maybe a tough guy in that but 2 way grinders nonetheless. I'd also like a big defensive D man and ideally a good veteran back up goalie. 

Unfortunately I think Adams is going to go with UPL/Levi and he thinks our D is as is. Not sure what he thinks about 3C or the absence of grit and veteran leadership. 

I think Stephenson will be in demand and too pricey for what he is but if not I'd be interested. Martinook, Lomberg, Carolina's D men, there's others but the bottom line is to strategically fill the holes and not just wait on kids to develop (at some point). Time is now. 

[SabreFinn]

33 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

For the sake of conversation, in your world, what player is the target and how much are you willing to overpay to get them?

A defender like Pesce who would bring a balance to the roster and play big minutes when ever needed is definitely worth 8milj. Or Stephenson about 7 like our other centers. I don't know if that is what you meen with overpay, but it is my ceiling. It might be it makes resigning some Rfa difficult in coming years, but I think that is what the cap is for all of the teams that want to be competitive. The good thing is that the balance they bring, gives a possibility to go cheaper in some other part of the roster.

[ska-T Palmtown]

"No one will come to Buffalo until we win." Granted the signing was a disaster - but at year 8 or 9 of Le Drought, the Sabres landed THE *best free agent available ... Mr. MVP Taylor Hall. Mario Williams on the Bills was brought up and erroneously dismissed - when he signed with the Bills, the franchise was only vaguely aware that there was the potential to play football after the regular season ended.

In hindsight, the Hall signing was an overpay - but in that exact moment, in that market, it was a fair market deal for very recent MVP. Hall likely signed to play with Eichel, something we don't exactly have now - so that hurts our chances; none of our forwards are currently on the level that would have a top tier talent salivating to play with.

I am not privy to all the talk going on in the league, but I imagine there is some skepticism about where a middle six guy fits in. I would suspect Jeff Skinner's talent is more highly respected in the league than on this board and they gave up the McDavid Consolation Prize to get Tuch. JJP, Quinner, and Cozzie are pretty much bona fide second liners, and they are essentially paying Tage/Cozens too much for them not to be the #1/#2 centers. So when we discuss "middle six" we really mean 3rd liner. At that point, you are now trying to convince a 3rd liner that playing 3rd line in Buffalo is better than elsewhere. Not impossible, but a tough sell.

Overall, the Williams signing was an overpay for the Bills, but there were a few seasons in there where he looked like a bargain.

[dudacek]

For me the big name unrestricted free agency discussion is moot anyway.

The Sabres have hauled in their share of big names: Ehrhoff, Leino, Okposo, Skinner (he counts) and Hall. None of them really worked out.

By and large, splashy UFA signings turn into overpaid veterans.

Sometimes you’ll get lucky with a Zach Hyman or a Joe Pavelski. But for the most part, UFA works best for filling in the gaps, not adding core guys.

 

[...]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Sometimes you’ll get lucky with a Zach Hyman or a Joe Pavelski. But for the most part, UFA works best for filling in the gaps, not adding core guys.

 

Isn't that what they would be doin': fillin' gaps left by da core guys?

[LTS]

19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

In my world? Well each move depends on other moves so it's hard to list off more than one guy cause if you don't get him plan B changes. 

The first thing is I want us to spend (wisely) and be closer to a cap ceiling team than a cap floor team. 

I just posted about the Erikson Ek rumor. I'd really like that potential trade. You make that trade a lot of free agency becomes moot.

I will keep it simple. If we could add Lindholm, Zadorov and Joshua I'd be in heaven. Unrealistic but a nice dream. 

We need a solid veteran 2 way center. We need 2 or even 3 veteran grit guys. Maybe a tough guy in that but 2 way grinders nonetheless. I'd also like a big defensive D man and ideally a good veteran back up goalie. 

Unfortunately I think Adams is going to go with UPL/Levi and he thinks our D is as is. Not sure what he thinks about 3C or the absence of grit and veteran leadership. 

I think Stephenson will be in demand and too pricey for what he is but if not I'd be interested. Martinook, Lomberg, Carolina's D men, there's others but the bottom line is to strategically fill the holes and not just wait on kids to develop (at some point). Time is now. 

Lindholm - for what role?  Rumor has it he has already shot down the Canucks and that rumor was at $7M.  Reportedly he has his sights set on $9M+.  If the Sabres have to overpay to get him are you comfortable with 7 x $10M?  He's 29, his stats are not great, at least this past year.  A -14 on the season and .59 P/GP. He had one good season in Calgary a few years ago. He has all the makings of a bad UFA signing.

Zadarov - why would he want to come back here?  Buffalo dropped him early on as he was deemed immature, etc. I can't imagine him wanting to come back. I suppose he could have value in the 4/5/6 role.. but I think he's off the market before free agency starts.

Joshua - maybe. I know his name came up this year as an emerging player, but has he had more than 1 year where he was worth mentioning? He's going to get Girgensons level money, maybe.  I could see it. Definitely a risk to see if he was just a really late bloomer or not.

Do you like anyone besides the guys on the Canucks? 😉

It makes more sense for the Sabres to go after players on contracts via trade. Both because it's a bit easier to overpay in prospects and picks than it is in actual contract value.  And yeah, Erikson Ek would be a great addition to the team. There are likely other players on contracts that will be good to get as well. 

 

19 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

A defender like Pesce who would bring a balance to the roster and play big minutes when ever needed is definitely worth 8milj. Or Stephenson about 7 like our other centers. I don't know if that is what you meen with overpay, but it is my ceiling. It might be it makes resigning some Rfa difficult in coming years, but I think that is what the cap is for all of the teams that want to be competitive. The good thing is that the balance they bring, gives a possibility to go cheaper in some other part of the roster.

Overpay would be more than they would get from another team they prefer to go to.

If Pesce is projected at $5-6M then $8M would be a crazy overpay. He'll be in demand and Toronto and Nashville are reportedly interested. Nashville can certainly make things happen, Toronto needs defense bad and goaltending. Question is.. will they move Marner or ride out his and Tavares' contracts this season.

Stephenson people have been interested in. He's 30. I think he's going to look at a team that competes for the Cup, not just to make it into the playoffs. I don't like him as much as others, but it really depends on how much you have to pay him and somewhat more importantly, for how long.

I think the Sabres overpaying for a 1 or 2 year deal is workable. I wouldn't want to start going after 4-6 year deals though, not overpaying.

 

 

[oddoublee]

43 minutes ago, LTS said:

Lindholm - for what role?  Rumor has it he has already shot down the Canucks and that rumor was at $7M.  Reportedly he has his sights set on $9M+.  If the Sabres have to overpay to get him are you comfortable with 7 x $10M?  He's 29, his stats are not great, at least this past year.  A -14 on the season and .59 P/GP. He had one good season in Calgary a few years ago. He has all the makings of a bad UFA signing.

Zadarov - why would he want to come back here?  Buffalo dropped him early on as he was deemed immature, etc. I can't imagine him wanting to come back. I suppose he could have value in the 4/5/6 role.. but I think he's off the market before free agency starts.

Joshua - maybe. I know his name came up this year as an emerging player, but has he had more than 1 year where he was worth mentioning? He's going to get Girgensons level money, maybe.  I could see it. Definitely a risk to see if he was just a really late bloomer or not.

Do you like anyone besides the guys on the Canucks? 😉

It makes more sense for the Sabres to go after players on contracts via trade. Both because it's a bit easier to overpay in prospects and picks than it is in actual contract value.  And yeah, Erikson Ek would be a great addition to the team. There are likely other players on contracts that will be good to get as well. 

 

Overpay would be more than they would get from another team they prefer to go to.

If Pesce is projected at $5-6M then $8M would be a crazy overpay. He'll be in demand and Toronto and Nashville are reportedly interested. Nashville can certainly make things happen, Toronto needs defense bad and goaltending. Question is.. will they move Marner or ride out his and Tavares' contracts this season.

Stephenson people have been interested in. He's 30. I think he's going to look at a team that competes for the Cup, not just to make it into the playoffs. I don't like him as much as others, but it really depends on how much you have to pay him and somewhat more importantly, for how long.

I think the Sabres overpaying for a 1 or 2 year deal is workable. I wouldn't want to start going after 4-6 year deals though, not overpaying.

 

 

Lindholm would be the 1C on this team. Take that however you like. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

Lindholm - for what role?  Rumor has it he has already shot down the Canucks and that rumor was at $7M.  Reportedly he has his sights set on $9M+.  If the Sabres have to overpay to get him are you comfortable with 7 x $10M?  He's 29, his stats are not great, at least this past year.  A -14 on the season and .59 P/GP. He had one good season in Calgary a few years ago. He has all the makings of a bad UFA signing.

Zadarov - why would he want to come back here?  Buffalo dropped him early on as he was deemed immature, etc. I can't imagine him wanting to come back. I suppose he could have value in the 4/5/6 role.. but I think he's off the market before free agency starts.

Joshua - maybe. I know his name came up this year as an emerging player, but has he had more than 1 year where he was worth mentioning? He's going to get Girgensons level money, maybe.  I could see it. Definitely a risk to see if he was just a really late bloomer or not.

Do you like anyone besides the guys on the Canucks? 😉

It makes more sense for the Sabres to go after players on contracts via trade. Both because it's a bit easier to overpay in prospects and picks than it is in actual contract value.  And yeah, Erikson Ek would be a great addition to the team. There are likely other players on contracts that will be good to get as well. 

 

Overpay would be more than they would get from another team they prefer to go to.

If Pesce is projected at $5-6M then $8M would be a crazy overpay. He'll be in demand and Toronto and Nashville are reportedly interested. Nashville can certainly make things happen, Toronto needs defense bad and goaltending. Question is.. will they move Marner or ride out his and Tavares' contracts this season.

Stephenson people have been interested in. He's 30. I think he's going to look at a team that competes for the Cup, not just to make it into the playoffs. I don't like him as much as others, but it really depends on how much you have to pay him and somewhat more importantly, for how long.

I think the Sabres overpaying for a 1 or 2 year deal is workable. I wouldn't want to start going after 4-6 year deals though, not overpaying.

 

 

So what are your alternative choices? Which free agents do you want?

I listed the "dream scenario" since you asked but obviously I know full well that they are a dream that won't happen. My original comment was I don't think we're getting much in free agency and I don't think players will want to come to Buffalo. Those that do will be over pays or the unwanted (relatively speaking). 

I could list more guys I like and you could crap on them and say they'll be too expensive or bad choices but there's no point to that. Your turn. You list some names so I can give reasons why they suck. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, oddoublee said:

Lindholm would be the 1C on this team. Take that however you like. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Girgs.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, oddoublee said:

Lindholm would be the 1C on this team. Take that however you like. 

Adding Lindholm would actually take us to what Murray envisioned only instead of Eichel/ROR, it'd be Thompson/Lindholm, but it would be the exact same idea. 1 or 2 doesn't matter, it's your offensive guy and your match up defensive guy. 

I doubt we'd go this route though, even though we do need that guy as Cozens doesn't seem to be it. Cozens looks like an overpaid 3C at the moment. 

[Huckleberry]

Just give Lindy the ability roll out 3 even lines and watch the magic happen.  

[JohnC]

35 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Adding Lindholm would actually take us to what Murray envisioned only instead of Eichel/ROR, it'd be Thompson/Lindholm, but it would be the exact same idea. 1 or 2 doesn't matter, it's your offensive guy and your match up defensive guy. 

I doubt we'd go this route though, even though we do need that guy as Cozens doesn't seem to be it. Cozens looks like an overpaid 3C at the moment. 

No question that Cozens was a disappointment last year. (As you rightly noted.) However, I think you will be making a mistake if you get locked in on that view. I'm hoping that the jolt from a new HC and new linemates will get him back on track and result in him playing like a legitimate 2C. 

[shrader]

9 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

 

In hindsight, the Hall signing was an overpay - but in that exact moment, in that market, it was a fair market deal for very recent MVP. Hall likely signed to play with Eichel, something we don't exactly have now - so that hurts our chances; none of our forwards are currently on the level that would have a top tier talent salivating to play with.

I’m not so sure it’s possible for a one year deal to be an overpay, particularly when you aren’t at the cap. Maybe that team was, I don’t really remember. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

4 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’m not so sure it’s possible for a one year deal to be an overpay, particularly when you aren’t at the cap. Maybe that team was, I don’t really remember. 

Fair point - but $8M for 2g and 17a is sort of an overpay no matter what?

[oddoublee]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh you. Always making great points with no basis other than your own self assuredness. Please never change. 

[oddoublee]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Adding Lindholm would actually take us to what Murray envisioned only instead of Eichel/ROR, it'd be Thompson/Lindholm, but it would be the exact same idea. 1 or 2 doesn't matter, it's your offensive guy and your match up defensive guy. 

I doubt we'd go this route though, even though we do need that guy as Cozens doesn't seem to be it. Cozens looks like an overpaid 3C at the moment. 

Agreed. Probably not happening due to cost - but he would change this lineup dynamic drastically. Allow Tage to take easier matchups and be a true 2C...and Cozens can grow as a 3C. 

To dream...

[LGR4GM]

2023-24

Elias Lindholm, 75games: 15g, 44pts, -14, 40hits, -8xgf, 49.9cf%

Dylan Cozens 79games: 18g, 47pts, -4, 108hits, +2.2xgf, 52.0cf%

Tage Thompson, 71games: 29g, 56pts, -1, 79hits, +4.6xgf, 56.9cf%

Y'all need to stop overhyping Lindholm, while taking out your frustration over a bad season on Cozens. 

14 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

Oh you. Always making great points with no basis other than your own self assuredness. Please never change. 

Sea above. 

Also, what basis are you bringing other than not a damn thing? 

Edited June 10 by LGR4GM

[PerreaultForever]

35 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No question that Cozens was a disappointment last year. (As you rightly noted.) However, I think you will be making a mistake if you get locked in on that view. I'm hoping that the jolt from a new HC and new linemates will get him back on track and result in him playing like a legitimate 2C. 

I don't see how I can be disappointed by that designation. Right now he's playing like a 3C at best. So if I'm the GM I go and get a 2C. The team is better. If Cozens begins playing like a 2C or even a 1C well then great, depth at center. Competition for jobs, and if the competition gets too great then you have bodies to trade for other assets that fill needs or the future. 

It all comes down to whether you look at the team as not good enough and needs to be improved OR just wait until they develop. I'm done with the latter view. Never liked it. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, oddoublee said:

Lindholm would be the 1C on this team. Take that however you like. 

 

Oh you. Always making great points with no basis other than your own self assuredness. Please never change. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

2023-24

Elias Lindholm, 75games: 15g, 44pts, -14, 40hits, -8xgf, 49.9cf%

Dylan Cozens 79games: 18g, 47pts, -4, 108hits, +2.2xgf, 52.0cf%

Tage Thompson, 71games: 29g, 56pts, -1, 79hits, +4.6xgf, 56.9cf%

Y'all need to stop overhyping Lindholm, while taking out your frustration over a bad season on Cozens. 

Elias Petterson 82 games 34 goals 89 points +20

and yet in playoffs

Elias Lindholm 13 games 10 pts. +4

Elias Petterson 13 games 6 pts +0

You stats guys and gals will never get it. 

[oddoublee]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

2023-24

Elias Lindholm, 75games: 15g, 44pts, -14, 40hits, -8xgf, 49.9cf%

Dylan Cozens 79games: 18g, 47pts, -4, 108hits, +2.2xgf, 52.0cf%

Tage Thompson, 71games: 29g, 56pts, -1, 79hits, +4.6xgf, 56.9cf%

Y'all need to stop overhyping Lindholm, while taking out your frustration over a bad season on Cozens. 

Sea above. 

Also, what basis are you bringing other than not a damn thing? 

One season slugger. It happens. I like Cozens. I have questions about his ability to be a top 2C. That's not a stretch thought.