AHL PLAYOFF GDT - Amerks @ Crunch - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - 7:05 PM (EDT) AHL TV, 950/95.7 WROC

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Huh. Have you watched any of the games or is just dumping on the organization because you enjoy it?

If you think a handful of teenagers should be running over a bunch of quality AHL bets then I don’t know what to tell you.

Highlights. Not full games. 

I think our development program and what we do in Rochester is highly flawed. Why is it a bunch of teenagers vs. AHL vets? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced mix, as should the NHL roster. You want to start creating a "winning culture" you start with your farm team and teaching ground. 

When they come up they should already have in them a firm work ethic and a winning attitude. 

[bg17]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Highlights. Not full games. 

I think our development program and what we do in Rochester is highly flawed. Why is it a bunch of teenagers vs. AHL vets? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced mix, as should the NHL roster. You want to start creating a "winning culture" you start with your farm team and teaching ground. 

When they come up they should already have in them a firm work ethic and a winning attitude. 

He took his team to game 6 of the conference finals last year and within a whisker of first place this year. How do you come to the conclusion that Appert is garbage by only watching highlights? Good heavens. Embarrassing. 

Edited May 3 by bg17

[Flashsabre]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Highlights. Not full games. 

I think our development program and what we do in Rochester is highly flawed. Why is it a bunch of teenagers vs. AHL vets? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced mix, as should the NHL roster. You want to start creating a "winning culture" you start with your farm team and teaching ground. 

When they come up they should already have in them a firm work ethic and a winning attitude. 

It’s not just teenagers. There is a good balance but they are developing a lot of kids which a farm team should be. Wahlberg and Östlund just joined in the past couple weeks.

At the end of the day Syracuse has a couple players that could help the Lightning. The Sabres probably have 8 that can be Sabres or NHL players on other teams if traded.

They play hard. Peterka, Muel and Quinn have graduated from the Amerks and have become solid Sabres.

Kulich, Rosen, Neuchev, Östlund, Wahlberg, R Johnson, Novikov, Levi are the next wave.

Savoie and Komarov should be joining next year.

The Amerks model is working for the kids.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

 

The Amerks model is working for the kids.

Sure.  By what metric? It’s not by any measurement of organizational winning.

[bob_sauve28]

 

[tom webster]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Highlights. Not full games. 

I think our development program and what we do in Rochester is highly flawed. Why is it a bunch of teenagers vs. AHL vets? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced mix, as should the NHL roster. You want to start creating a "winning culture" you start with your farm team and teaching ground. 

When they come up they should already have in them a firm work ethic and a winning attitude. 

Is there any evidence that success in the AHL has any benefit in the NHL? 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Sure.  By what metric? It’s not by any measurement of organizational winning.

I’m sorry. Didn’t realize these teenagers should already be dominating the NHL. They are developing nicely which will help organizational winning when they are ready to come up and help the lineup or be used as trade chips to bring in other pieces to help them win games.

[dudacek]

Some impressions of those prospects after the 3 games:

Rousek is the probably the best forward on the Amerks right now, but doesn’t look fast or strong enough to play the same game in the NHL.

Kulich is MIA. He just hasn’t done anything noticeable.

I want to like Rosen. His feet and his hands are the most noticeable on the team and he’s not timid or irresponsible. But it’s maddening how infrequently he applies his will on the game, he’s got more to give, but he’s content to let it come to him.

Östlund’s lack of strength means he has faded as the clutching and grabbing has escalated. But he sees the game better and plays it faster than anyone else down there. Based just on these 3 games, he projects the best of the big 3, when you account for his lack of AHL experience.

Anton Wahlberg doesn’t know how good he can be yet. His effectiveness wavers because he’s 18 and it shows. But he is a physical specimen who can skate and he wants to make a difference.

When the going got tougher Ryan Johnson seemed to play better. His ability to move the puck to safety shone, rather than wilted under the heavy fire.

Novikov has got some heavy feet, but his attitude is every inch what the Sabres lack. He sees the game very well and pushes first.

Levi has simply been fantastic. Technically poised, cool under fire and athletic. Easily the best player on the ice for either team.

Edited May 4 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, bg17 said:

He took his team to game 6 of the conference finals last year and within a whisker of first place this year. How do you come to the conclusion that Appert is garbage by only watching highlights? Good heavens. Embarrassing. 

Because of what the prospects learn and more importantly don't learn coming out of Rochester. That's all that matters to me, that's what the AHL is for. 

[bg17]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Because of what the prospects learn and more importantly don't learn coming out of Rochester. That's all that matters to me, that's what the AHL is for. 

Ok. I will mark you down in the “Appert is garbage” column. Solid take. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

It’s not just teenagers. There is a good balance but they are developing a lot of kids which a farm team should be. Wahlberg and Östlund just joined in the past couple weeks.

At the end of the day Syracuse has a couple players that could help the Lightning. The Sabres probably have 8 that can be Sabres or NHL players on other teams if traded.

They play hard. Peterka, Muel and Quinn have graduated from the Amerks and have become solid Sabres.

Kulich, Rosen, Neuchev, Östlund, Wahlberg, R Johnson, Novikov, Levi are the next wave.

Savoie and Komarov should be joining next year.

The Amerks model is working for the kids.

Right, stick with that if it helps you, but you're not listening to what I'm saying. We've been fed the full prospect cupboard line for years and "next year" is the year for years and it's all BS. 

We're bottom of the league every year so sure, we have a bunch of shiny first rounders all over but we have only managed to land 3 2nd rounders into NHL players and aside from Victor Olofsson and those 3 nobody from the lower rounds has made it to be a regular NHL player in over 10 years! 

If Rochester was a dominant AHL team I might buy in to the just wait for these guys argument, but they're not, it's all BS. We will never win this way. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Is there any evidence that success in the AHL has any benefit in the NHL? 

Didn't Washington's farm team win the Cup last year? They had injuries and called up a bunch of guys this year. They fit in and Washington did what we could not. You can argue that's not evidence I guess but it's something. 

I just don't believe Rochester is teaching these kids what they need to succeed. I see it as a mirror of what Granato was doing. I think that's a mistake. 

[tom webster]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Didn't Washington's farm team win the Cup last year? They had injuries and called up a bunch of guys this year. They fit in and Washington did what we could not. You can argue that's not evidence I guess but it's something. 

I just don't believe Rochester is teaching these kids what they need to succeed. I see it as a mirror of what Granato was doing. I think that's a mistake. 

Seriously? Which Hershey Bear contributed to the Caps success. Maybe you can tell us which Lake Erie Monsters contributed to the Columbus Blue Jacket Stanley Cup dynasty. Toronto has truly benefited from that AHL Championship they won under Sheldon Keefe.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Highlights. Not full games. 

I think our development program and what we do in Rochester is highly flawed.

How would you know if you don't...watch them?

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Sure.  By what metric? It’s not by any measurement of organizational winning.

16-4-3-1 since March 1. Tied for 1st in the division. How is that not winning? 

My god, are people so committed to whining about the Sabres they can't even acknowledge something positive?

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

Is there any evidence that success in the AHL has any benefit in the NHL? 

Only five teams (17%) out of 30 saw their NHL clubs have a . 500 or worse record after their AHL team's . 610 or better performance. Out of the 30 AHL teams that met my criteria only eight (27%) saw their NHL club fail to make the post season the year after.

https://theleafsnation.com/news/does-ahl-success-translate-into-nhl-success

Edited May 4 by PromoTheRobot

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Didn't Washington's farm team win the Cup last year? They had injuries and called up a bunch of guys this year. They fit in and Washington did what we could not. You can argue that's not evidence I guess but it's something. 

I just don't believe Rochester is teaching these kids what they need to succeed. I see it as a mirror of what Granato was doing. I think that's a mistake. 

Some AHL teams play few prospects and fill rosters with older players who are good and strong but are not going to the NHL other than in a fill-in role. That is what Hershey is. Syracuse is sort of like that too. Rochester is committed to development so it's a young roster with new players getting added in midseason. So try to take that into account while you watch your highlights.

Edited May 4 by PromoTheRobot

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I’m sorry. Didn’t realize these teenagers should already be dominating the NHL. They are developing nicely which will help organizational winning when they are ready to come up and help the lineup or be used as trade chips to bring in other pieces to help them win games.

Again, by what metric? you keep saying this like it is fact. you even listed a bunch of kids that have become "solid Sabres", a bad team that missed the playoffs. What is so nice about anyone's development other than you say it is.

Edited May 4 by SwampD

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Some AHL teams have play few prospects and fill rosters with older players who are good and strong but are not going to the NHL other than in a fill-in role. That is what Hershey is. Syracuse is sort of like that too. Rochester is committed to development so it's a young roster with new players getting added in midseason. So try to take that into account while you watch your highlights.

After they were eliminated in the playoffs, the Lightning re-assigned two defensemen and a goaltender to Syracuse. Lilleberg and Crozier, the two Dmen have had an impact on the ice. So your point is well made. 

[Weave]

38 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

16-4-3-1 since March 1. Tied for 1st in the division. How is that not winning? 

My god, are people so committed to whining about the Sabres they can't even acknowledge something positive?

Only five teams (17%) out of 30 saw their NHL clubs have a . 500 or worse record after their AHL team's . 610 or better performance. Out of the 30 AHL teams that met my criteria only eight (27%) saw their NHL club fail to make the post season the year after.

https://theleafsnation.com/news/does-ahl-success-translate-into-nhl-success

I realize that context is hard, and that your preference and comfort zone is to throw shots at the fanbase.

The discussion was in regards to evidence of how the Amerks are helping the Sabres.  I asked for his metrics.  
 

Congrats.  You appeared to find a metric in a Leafs blog telling their fanbase all is well in the world cuz the Marlies had an awesomse season last year. You certainly could have popped that into the conversation without your “I’m too good for this fanbase” crap.

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

I realize that context is hard, and that your preference and comfort zone is to throw shots at the fanbase.

The discussion was in regards to evidence of how the Amerks are helping the Sabres.  I asked for his metrics.  
 

What you did was ask for something you know can't happen. Like a ten game win streak before the season begins. Current Amerk players aren't helping the "Sabres win", ignoring that the Sabres aren't playing now, is that they are not on the Sabres yet.

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What you did was ask for something you know can't happen. Like a ten game win streak before the season begins. Current Amerk players aren't helping the "Sabres win", ignoring that the Sabres aren't playing now, is that they are not on the Sabres yet.

What I did was ask him to explain his justification for his statement that “the Amerks model is working” in the context of making Buffalo better.  I’m not sure how you stretched that into some weird time travel expectation.  Maybe try reading through your glasses instead of looking down your nose underneath them.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

Seriously? Which Hershey Bear contributed to the Caps success. 

That's easy. 

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/washington-capitals/features/washington-capitals-hershey-bears-thank-recent-performance-critical-stretch

 

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How would you know if you don't...watch them?

How is that even a serious question? 

Every training camp we see who comes up and who goes back. 

Every year we see the (lack of) contributions from injury call ups from Rochester. 

How is any of this not obvious???

[Porous Five Hole]

25 minutes ago, Weave said:

What I did was ask him to explain his justification for his statement that “the Amerks model is working” in the context of making Buffalo better.  I’m not sure how you stretched that into some weird time travel expectation.  Maybe try reading through your glasses instead of looking down your nose underneath them.

I think the context needs to be when Adams & Karmanos began their roles. Since then, Quinn & Peterka earned stripes and call ups (point per game guys in the AHL). Krebs also got playoff experience. Rochester since then (and now) are surrounded by AHL vets to balance the roster.  The organization has also been patient with Rousek, Rosen, & Kulich…who have all played well at the AHL level.  They sent down RyJo to season. Maybe they’ll pan out or maybe not.  But the Sabres are figuring out what they have with their prospects before promoting them (which wasn’t the case for Mitts & Tage). 
 

It takes time to reset the development pipeline and the Sabres seem committed to using Rochester properly. I’m not saying you’re wrong in your assessment, but I’m trying to point out that there are new philosophical differences in prospect management that need time to bear fruit. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Some AHL teams play few prospects and fill rosters with older players who are good and strong but are not going to the NHL other than in a fill-in role. That is what Hershey is. Syracuse is sort of like that too. Rochester is committed to development so it's a young roster with new players getting added in midseason. So try to take that into account while you watch your highlights.

Which is part of the problem in terms of how we develop and with the lack of culture we have at the NHL level. The kids need to be around veterans to learn what it takes and what it doesn't take. A bunch of kids who think they are god's gift to hockey not surrounded by vets is a model for failure. 

Your AHL team is an injury reserve pool of veterans and a rookie training ground where guys learn to fix their flaws. Ideally it's about a 50/50 mix. 

If your NHL roster is more than 30% (maximum) rookies, first contracts and bridge deals you're likely not going anywhere either. 

The Sabres being the youngest team in hockey is NOT an accomplishment. 

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Which is part of the problem in terms of how we develop and with the lack of culture we have at the NHL level. The kids need to be around veterans to learn what it takes and what it doesn't take. A bunch of kids who think they are god's gift to hockey not surrounded by vets is a model for failure. 

Your AHL team is an injury reserve pool of veterans and a rookie training ground where guys learn to fix their flaws. Ideally it's about a 50/50 mix. 

If your NHL roster is more than 30% (maximum) rookies, first contracts and bridge deals you're likely not going anywhere either. 

The Sabres being the youngest team in hockey is NOT an accomplishment. 

You aren’t wrong, but please see my previous post. There has been a shift in philosophy and the Amerks have had positive results (four playoff series wins the last  two years).  Those players are only now aging into roles in Buffalo if at all.