The Players need someone to push them?

[NHFan]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

The entire point of a coach is to set a standard. Even the McKinnin of the world are going to be on a struggling team if the coach won’t set a standard 

I dunno...I mean there are tons of pro sports teams and corporations with self motivated and self guided employees who rise to the highest levels😉

[Buffalonill]

This is like the 2008–09 sabres team no one wanted to take leadership of the team so the guy they traded for was named captain. 

So embarrassing that no one wanted to step up this time too

[SDS]

14 hours ago, inkman said:

I’ve learned the people who earn respect in the work place take personal responsibility or as some would say accountability.  Blaming the coach for not being motivated is a cop out and a sign of major mental weakness.  Could imagine telling people at work, I’d do a better job if my boss just pushed me more.  No one would respect anything you did or said ever again. 

So, you have never included yourself in a criticism simply to soften the criticism of your intended target? 

[LGR4GM]

After listening to the bs coming out of everyone's mouths in that locker room, it occurs to me that this guys allllll thought even in late March that they would be able to pull this out and make the playoffs. This "come to jesus" moment didn't even happen until after Granato was fired and Adams told them what they are all now saying. 

This team needs some adults. Idc what they say or the lip service at the end of the year, they had months on months to fix this and they got mad at fans and acted like they could just flip a switch and make the playoffs. The more I listen to their comments, the more pissed off at the team and organization I become. Completely out of touch with reality of what they were doing and completely leaderless to stand up and say they weren't good enough until it was too late. 

 

It is ridiculous and pathetic that this team thinks Granato being fired is the "wake up call" when MISSING THE F-ING PLAYOFFS FOR 13 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!!! is the wake up call. 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

After they just spent how many months (years?) floundering and failing because someone wasn’t mean enough for them?  Oh boy. 

It is not a question of being mean.  It is more about pushing them harder, being consistent, and fair, and following up.  

You don't like Dahlin, that's fine.  But this is not a Dahlin problem.   

We could post quotes from every other player interview.  There are red flags in all of them.  

Their comments speak to the culture and the leadership void.  

This is group dynamics at its finest.  Put a group of workers, or a sports team, together and let them run themselves.  The most influential people in the group will eventually set the standard for the group.   The problem is that on some teams/groups these influencers (leaders) may not be the right ones to achieve the team goals.  They may be influential, but if not directed properly they could do more harm than good.   

Clifton touched on why this doesn't happen in Boston.  CULTURE.  LEADERSHIP that extends outside the locker room all they way to the top.  Organizational goals are clear and not compromised for individual's.  

Every players' interview that I have watched has the same elements in it: 

1.  They we not ready to step up from the very start (bad camp, bad preseason, slow start, no changes made to fix it) 

2.  They learned hard lessons when it was too late to recover and after the fact 

3.  They are all begging to be led, and pushed,  and are at a loss on how to achieve a higher standard as a group.  

The 3rd one key.  The players can train individually the entire offseason to make themselves better.  Most have been doing that since they were 14.   It takes the coach to put them together and get them better as a team.  That means how to play as a unit (structure) , and what happens when you don't play that way (accountability).  

They like Donny.  They are trying not to blame Donny, but reading between the lines they are.  The jokes about the country club are probably true. 

The Kevyn Adams presser tells that he knew there was a problem and still let the season spiral away.   I have been begging for a proven NHL veteran coach.  I am convinced that Adams needs this person just as much as the players do.  He is learning to GM on the fly.  Adams is struggling with pro personal moves and trades.  I well respected veteran coach can help.  

This is not a Dahlin problem.  His quotes show me he lacks experience and knowledge on how to do it,  but wants to be part of fixing this program.  

Edited April 18 by Pimlach

[xzy89c1]

what a lot of us were saying for Granato era. Players need to be held accountable by coaches and teammates. That is pro sports. Once people are not held accountable things go downhill.

It is not even making specific mistakes specifically. It is finishing checks, forechecking hard, playing responsible defense etc... 

Rewarding players that do that is also part of accountability.

I have, what i think, is an irrational desire to have peca as next coach. Combine him with solid NHL veteran asst coaches.

Am I crazy for thinking that? I concede i am in general crazy 🙂

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, xzy89c1 said:

what a lot of us were saying for Granato era. Players need to be held accountable by coaches and teammates. That is pro sports. Once people are not held accountable things go downhill.

It is not even making specific mistakes specifically. It is finishing checks, forechecking hard, playing responsible defense etc... 

Rewarding players that do that is also part of accountability.

I have, what i think, is an irrational desire to have peca as next coach. Combine him with solid NHL veteran asst coaches.

Am I crazy for thinking that? I concede i am in general crazy 🙂

Doesn't matter because it isn't happening. Peca fits almost none of the criteria that Adams laid out at his press conference. 

[xzy89c1]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't matter because it isn't happening. Peca fits almost none of the criteria that Adams laid out at his press conference. 

Dont crush my dream that fast!!!!!!!!

[GoPuckYourself]

15 hours ago, Believer said:

 

"I think a lot of times this year, we got away with some stuff that we shouldn't have gotten away with," he added. "I think if you clean those things up, then it sends a message."

Who thinks Ruff would have let that juvenile fan rebellion stunt go on for two weeks?… 

Would bet a bunch he would have benched the ringleaders without hesitation to send a message to the team, the fans, and the town.

Didn't Ruff lose the locker room after Lucic destroyed Ryan Miller? Isn't he the same coach to where Miller was calling out people afterwards? 

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't matter because it isn't happening. Peca fits almost none of the criteria that Adams laid out at his press conference. 

I think it will hurt Peca's career trajectory to go to Buffalo right now, its a high risk job for a first time coach.  

He should stay under Peter Laviolette's capable wing and continue to learn. 

Adams needs help.  Which is probably why he is looking for a NHL vet coach.  There are always good prospects without NHL HC experience but they cannot help Adams. 

Sad state of affairs and quite ironic- our GM's learning curve is slowing down the teams development.  

I can see Lindy getting the nod.  

[MISabresFan]

“In certain regions, ‘donnie’ is a colloquial term for a close friend or companion.” “The locals often greet each other with a warm ‘Hey, donnie! How’s it going?'” 

Sabers were a real Donnie this past year.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I think it will hurt Peca's career trajectory to go to Buffalo right now, its a high risk job for a first time coach.  

He should stay under Peter Laviolette's capable wing and continue to learn. 

Adams needs help.  Which is probably why he is looking for a NHL vet coach.  There are always good prospects without NHL HC experience but they cannot help Adams. 

Sad state of affairs and quite ironic- our GM's learning curve is slowing down the teams development.  

I can see Lindy getting the nod.  

But it doesn't matter, the bolded if what Adams said is truthful. He doesn't want a first time NHL head coach, he wants someone with experience and specifically head coaching experience in the playoffs. 

[bunomatic]

Its the 13th season without playoffs and most here thought Skinners monty Python reporter joke thing was gut splitting entertainment. I didn’t. Maybe a couple others. This team has a bad case of the sillys and most are still young enough to split a gut at an unexpected fart. While all that was happening they could have been doing some soul searching and looking for ways to get better. They weren’t. Accountability from the coaching staff was non existant. That much was obvious. I look forward to a change.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

After listening to the bs coming out of everyone's mouths in that locker room, it occurs to me that this guys allllll thought even in late March that they would be able to pull this out and make the playoffs. This "come to jesus" moment didn't even happen until after Granato was fired and Adams told them what they are all now saying. 

This team needs some adults. Idc what they say or the lip service at the end of the year, they had months on months to fix this and they got mad at fans and acted like they could just flip a switch and make the playoffs. The more I listen to their comments, the more pissed off at the team and organization I become. Completely out of touch with reality of what they were doing and completely leaderless to stand up and say they weren't good enough until it was too late. 

 

It is ridiculous and pathetic that this team thinks Granato being fired is the "wake up call" when MISSING THE F-ING PLAYOFFS FOR 13 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!!! is the wake up call. 

I agree but wasn’t that what EJ was for?  He was bad and maybe his voice fell on deaf ears but they really need to find the right guys to kick these kids ass.  

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

It is not a question of being mean.  It is more about pushing them harder, being consistent, and fair, and following up.  

You don't like Dahlin, that's fine.  But this is not a Dahlin problem.   

We could post quotes from every other player interview.  There are red flags in all of them.  

Their comments speak to the culture and the leadership void.  

This is group dynamics at its finest.  Put a group of workers, or a sports team, together and let them run themselves.  The most influential people in the group will eventually set the standard for the group.   The problem is that on some teams/groups these influencers (leaders) may not be the right ones to achieve the team goals.  They may be influential, but if not directed properly they could do more harm than good.   

Clifton touched on why this doesn't happen in Boston.  CULTURE.  LEADERSHIP that extends outside the locker room all they way to the top.  Organizational goals are clear and not compromised for individual's.  

Every players' interview that I have watched has the same elements in it: 

1.  They we not ready to step up from the very start (bad camp, bad preseason, slow start, no changes made to fix it) 

2.  They learned hard lessons when it was too late to recover and after the fact 

3.  They are all begging to be led, and pushed,  and are at a loss on how to achieve a higher standard as a group.  

The 3rd one key.  The players can train individually the entire offseason to make themselves better.  Most have been doing that since they were 14.   It takes the coach to put them together and get them better as a team.  That means how to play as a unit (structure) , and what happens when you don't play that way (accountability).  

They like Donny.  They are trying not to blame Donny, but reading between the lines they are.  The jokes about the country club are probably true. 

The Kevyn Adams presser tells that he knew there was a problem and still let the season spiral away.   I have been begging for a proven NHL veteran coach.  I am convinced that Adams needs this person just as much as the players do.  He is learning to GM on the fly.  Adams is struggling with pro personal moves and trades.  I well respected veteran coach can help.  

This is not a Dahlin problem.  His quotes show me he lacks experience and knowledge on how to do it,  but wants to be part of fixing this program.  

Finally someone making some sense.  I’ll come around on Rasmus but boy does he sound like a lost puppy. 

Edited April 18 by inkman

[dudacek]

I've been saying all season that this year's team was immature.

The last three days have confirmed that.

The best thing about immaturity is that for most of us it passes, and usually after life hands us some lessons.

Looks like we have to hope that this year becomes lesson learned, and that the new coach is the right guy to reinforce that.

 

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, inkman said:

Finally someone making some sense.  I’ll come around on Rasmus but boy does he sound like a lost puppy. 

Yes.  They are all lost to some extent.   Dahlin wearing a C next season is like putting the weight of 13 years of failure and dysfunction on a 23 year old.  A kid that at times tries too hard to do too much.  

I think Tuch will handle it better.   We don’t have any other choices on the roster right now.  
 

 

[SDS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

After listening to the bs coming out of everyone's mouths in that locker room, it occurs to me that this guys allllll thought even in late March that they would be able to pull this out and make the playoffs. This "come to jesus" moment didn't even happen until after Granato was fired and Adams told them what they are all now saying. 

This team needs some adults. Idc what they say or the lip service at the end of the year, they had months on months to fix this and they got mad at fans and acted like they could just flip a switch and make the playoffs. The more I listen to their comments, the more pissed off at the team and organization I become. Completely out of touch with reality of what they were doing and completely leaderless to stand up and say they weren't good enough until it was too late. 

 

It is ridiculous and pathetic that this team thinks Granato being fired is the "wake up call" when MISSING THE F-ING PLAYOFFS FOR 13 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!!! is the wake up call. 

You don't have to be all-in or all-out. There is a middle ground.

[Mr Peabody]

Was the word  “accountability” suggested to them prior to exit interviews?  It got stale.

[Believer]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Didn't Ruff lose the locker room after Lucic destroyed Ryan Miller? Isn't he the same coach to where Miller was calling out people afterwards? 

Don’t know… Wasn’t following the Sabres that closely back then.

[Drag0nDan]

52 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  They are all lost to some extent.   Dahlin wearing a C next season is like putting the weight of 13 years of failure and dysfunction on a 23 year old.  A kid that at times tries too hard to do too much.  

I think Tuch will handle it better.   We don’t have any other choices on the roster right now.  
 

 

I just don't see a captain with Tuch unfortunately - and i also don't think he wants it.  It almost has to be dahlin.  

[PickaPecaPickles]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

After listening to the bs coming out of everyone's mouths in that locker room, it occurs to me that this guys allllll thought even in late March that they would be able to pull this out and make the playoffs. This "come to jesus" moment didn't even happen until after Granato was fired and Adams told them what they are all now saying. 

This team needs some adults. Idc what they say or the lip service at the end of the year, they had months on months to fix this and they got mad at fans and acted like they could just flip a switch and make the playoffs. The more I listen to their comments, the more pissed off at the team and organization I become. Completely out of touch with reality of what they were doing and completely leaderless to stand up and say they weren't good enough until it was too late. 

 

It is ridiculous and pathetic that this team thinks Granato being fired is the "wake up call" when MISSING THE F-ING PLAYOFFS FOR 13 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!!! is the wake up call. 

Confirms my impression of Granato and the team which I stated in the main thread about his firing Tuesday:
 

Quote

 

I liked Granato a lot as a person and enjoyed listening to him on WGR when I could.  I certainly can't judge him on Xs and Os, but just as important, if not more so IMHO, is motivating players. They are pros and supposed to be motivated, but that belies human nature. They rarely looked motivated in the first period (it seems they'd only come to life when they were down or waited until the last period). In fact, the past 2 years, it also looked like the team would wait until the second half (or later) of the season to start playing in a manner showing they wanted to make the playoffs.  To me, that is all on the coaching staff. 

These players obviously need external motivation.  You don't necessarily need some guy who is going to crack the whip, as there are different ways to motivate people. But it seemed pretty clear that Granato either didn't think it was necessary or relied on a method that wasn't connecting.

 

 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  They are all lost to some extent.   Dahlin wearing a C next season is like putting the weight of 13 years of failure and dysfunction on a 23 year old.  A kid that at times tries too hard to do too much.  

I think Tuch will handle it better.   We don’t have any other choices on the roster right now.  
 

 

It may have to come via outside the org.  As much as I don’t like the person, Chris Drury changed the culture of the sausage grabbing Mary’s (thanks for the recall @Getpucksdeep).  He set the tone from the moment he stepped in the lockerroom. He told Darcy Miro had to go.  We need our 2024 version of the ingrate Drury, that’s going to tell Kevyn that Skinner has to go.  I’m almost feeling optimistic… 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, Believer said:

Don’t know… Wasn’t following the Sabres that closely back then.

So you started following when the nightmare happened God bless your soul

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I think it will hurt Peca's career trajectory to go to Buffalo right now, its a high risk job for a first time coach.  

He should stay under Peter Laviolette's capable wing and continue to learn. 

Adams needs help.  Which is probably why he is looking for a NHL vet coach.  There are always good prospects without NHL HC experience but they cannot help Adams. 

Sad state of affairs and quite ironic- our GM's learning curve is slowing down the teams development.  

I can see Lindy getting the nod.  

I agree with your observations on this post and other posts on this topic. However, I strenuously disagree with the notion that Ruff should be the next coaching selection. (I recognize that you are not saying you would agree with his selection just that you can foresee it.) Now is not the time to look at the past for solutions. We need a fresher and different approach when considering who would be the best option as the new HC. 

There are a number of candidates who fit the criteria of NHL experience and a sterner style of coaching that KA is seeking. In my opinion, looking to our franchise past for that candidate would be a mistake.