Peyton Krebs, would you keep him?

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

Trade for what ?  A 2030 6th round pick ? 

He is worth much more than that.

Package him in a hockey trade and he packages as a former 1.   The sparkle is off of him as a 1 of course, but he is still a promising player and only 23.   

[GASabresIUFAN]

Let Krebs go.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Secondly, I don’t remember you having this mindset.  Did something change?  Are you just echoing idiots like me? 

What has honestly happened is that many of you equate size with grit which I do not. Because of this whenever I speak on the matter it appears that I don't care at all about size when in fact I just care more about grit. It is why I was thrilled we got Benson. Idc Benson is 5'10", I care that he will eat your heart with a nice Chianti. Size matters only when it matters, versus grit matters always. If I am moving on from Krebs, I want someone who has more grit and has more weight to throw around with that grit. Basically I always come off as wanting the "small skill guy" because I value skill more than size. For a 3rd line center, I want tenacity/abrasion/grit and I think someone bigger than Krebs with those traits would be better. 

[Doohicksie]

6 minutes ago, Getpucksdeep said:

just waiting to blossom.  

This is the rub.  Will he?

Or is what you see all that Krebs will ever be?

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Krebs is a RFA. Do you keep him or put him in a package. 

I'd package him. I want bigger with grit. Trading for a middle 6 center would be smart. 

The emergence of Benson makes Krebs redundant on this roster.  We only need 1 playmaking, undersized fire plug bouncing in between the middle 6.  We don’t need that type of player on the 4th line. 
 

I’d like to see him packaged to address grit and toughness for the bottom 6z

Edited April 17 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What has honestly happened is that many of you equate size with grit which I do not. Because of this whenever I speak on the matter it appears that I don't care at all about size when in fact I just care more about grit. It is why I was thrilled we got Benson. Idc Benson is 5'10", I care that he will eat your heart with a nice Chianti. Size matters only when it matters, versus grit matters always. If I am moving on from Krebs, I want someone who has more grit and has more weight to throw around with that grit. Basically I always come off as wanting the "small skill guy" because I value skill more than size. For a 3rd line center, I want tenacity/abrasion/grit and I think someone bigger than Krebs with those traits would be better. 

I’m in line with this. Sabres have plenty of size. They use it to their advantage but they aren’t the kind of players that this team needs more of. Your Benson point is right on the mark.  I don’t care how big the guys are (ok maybe in defense I do) but the Sabres need Marchand not Patrick Kane. Give me jerks that are 5’10” instead of nice 6’7” guys.  

4 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

The emergence of Benson makes Krebs redundant on this roster.  We only need 1 playmaking, undersized fire plug bouncing in between the middle 6.  We don’t need that type of player on the 4th line. 
 

I’d like to see him packaged to address grit and toughness for the bottom 6z

The big difference is that 9 has top line skill, 19 does not. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This was a year where he needed to take a leap and the results were disappointing.

Krebs has shown clear progress over the past 2 years defensively and has become pretty reliable in that area. He’s fast, relatively fearless and has some skill.

But the skill has not manifested itself into enough production for the third line and the grit is less than ideal for the 4th.

He’s at the cusp of the 200 games/3 seasons point where kids have to show what they are. What he is right now is a player who needs to be better to be part of this going forward.

Im not ready to move on in the same sense I am with Jost. But I certainly would not be going into next season with him as a 3C.

I want to see what a new coach can do for his game. But I fear Jost may be who he is.

Peyton Krebs played just over 1,000 minutes as a 23yr old. He had a 46.15GF% and a 48.83xgf% which are up from his previous year by 3 and 5.5% respectively. So he did indeed improve. 

Zach Benson played just over 886 minutes as a 18yr old. He had a 47.95gf% and a 51.39xgf% which are better than Krebs already. His HDCF% was 48.77 compared to Krebs at 46%. 

I bring this up as a comparison because yes, Krebs was better but he was still worse than an 18yr rookie. What is even more alarming to me is the counting stats. Benson had 10g and 10 first assists while Krebs had just 4g and 5 first assists. Krebs right now is not trending as a 3c as you note, ideally he is a 4c. The issue I have there is why would I keep a mediocre checking 4c around? He doesn't provide a skillset that differentiates him from others. He is a 6ft 187lbs center that is not particularly physical, isn't particularly good anything. As that what we want as a 4c? I know I don't want him at 3c, that needs to be changed and I think we agree there (in fact this post isn't trying to disagree with you at all). 

Jost is 100% who is will be and should not be retained at all. Chandler Stephenson is an option that others have said. I would also toss out, Teddy Blueger and maybe Chris Tierny but the pool here is thin. A trade is a better option IMPO. Montreal will need to clear some salary, Boston is a team that might have interest, Vancouver could like him, there are a few more teams around that might be interested in cheaper bottom 6 help with "upside" but the point is, in a package I think he still retains some value. I don't expect Adams though to move on from Krebs. He needs to 100% move on from Jost though. 

[...]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't expect Adams though to move on from Krebs.

Which is why all of the praise Adams is getting for yesterday's press conference is misplaced. Adams put on his "angry, fired-up GM" mask and deceived a lot of people.

Krebs shouldn't have been on the roster this past season if their goal was to make the playoffs. Same with Jost, Okposo, etc. etc.

Krebs is a waste of a slot - @LGR4GM's assessment of Krebs is dead on and I agree that he's the kind of player Adams would hold onto for unknown reasons.

Edited April 17 by ...
added more content - FREE!

[GoPuckYourself]

Krebs does nothing for me, I don't see any value he would have to us or another club. He tried being that grittier type of player but he just isn't that guy imo, I see him usually getting destroyed in corners trying to get to the puck and doesn't cotrol the puck long enough. He isn't very skilled as far as a goal scorer either, he's just very meh to me, I've been saying pretty much since the season started we need an upgrade over him.

[rickshaw]

I’d like to see him under a new coach. That doesn’t work, move on.

[Believer]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

He's still a relatively young player but he's played in enough games where potential, whatever it is,  needs to be translated into actual performance and production. 

Agree… I like Krebs… He has high compete and enthusiasm… Loves the wall battles… Always has a smile on his face when the camera catches him on the bench… usually talking to teammates…

Kid has got to show his skills and embrace an identity if he’s not traded and given a chance by the new HC… Will be rooting for him.

[Buffalonill]

I remember when  tage thompson was a bust at 23 

Edited April 17 by Buffalonill

[breese866]

Get him some boxing lessons over the summer and let him be the 4C.  

[Carmel Corn]

Was hoping he would show something in the final quarter of the season....but he failed to impress.  The only way I'd consider keeping him is if he agrees to  bridge deal at $1.5 million AAV.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I remember when  tage thompson was a bust at 23 

Tage Thompson at 23: 144 games played, 35pts, or 0.24ppg

Peyton Krebs at 23: 215 games played, 71pts, or 0.33ppg

Krebs had more ppg but had played more games. Tage over his next 78 games (brings him to 222 total games) put up 68pts. Brings him to .464ppg in the same number of games.  

If you think Krebs will break out, it would have to come very very very soon. I'm doubtful as he's regressed in production all 3 years. Also, Tage Thompson is an exception, don't use him as a rule. Krebs is 98% likely to be a 30pt forward. 

[SwampD]

I wish Krebs was the concept of Krebs.

[pi2000]

Keep him, he's cheap young and will continue to grow.   

Trading him won't move the needle.

[Getpucksdeep]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I’m in line with this. Sabres have plenty of size. They use it to their advantage but they aren’t the kind of players that this team needs more of. Your Benson point is right on the mark.  I don’t care how big the guys are (ok maybe in defense I do) but the Sabres need Marchand not Patrick Kane. Give me jerks that are 5’10” instead of nice 6’7” guys.  

The big difference is that 9 has top line skill, 19 does not. 

Wasn't he dishing two assists per game during last year's amerks playoff run? Vision yadda yadda.  Adjustment hasn't gone well I guess but it's not like he's Girgensons.

[mjd1001]

Guys drafted in his range in the first round 15th-20th overall....tend to be busts, or at most marginal NHL players at close to a rate of 50%.  It wouldn't be a surprise if he was just that.  Now, there are some cases where guys take a while to develop..they get to a certain age and all of a sudden, seemingly out of no-where, it all clicks. But usually you would see signs of that.  20 career goals in 215 career games, and 46 assists....its a little bit worrysome.   That is 7.5 goals and 17.5 assists, 25 points over 82 games.  Almost 3 full years in the NHL, a cup of coffee in the 4th year.  I don't know, it COULD still happen for him but right now I'm not hopeful.

Here is the bottom line for me. If it DOES click for him, I don't want it to happen while continuing to give him time on this roster. I think whatever ice time he would get here, its time to give it to someone 'better' right now.

Now, I'll contradict most of what I said and say you sigh him. Why?  I highly doubt you get anything of value for him in a trade.  So you sign him, let him try to blow you away in camp. If he does and EARNS a spot on the roster, great! if he doesn't down to Rochester he goes.  If he gets picked up on waivers on the way to Roch, well, you didn't want him up here anyway.

Edited April 17 by mjd1001

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Guys drafted in his range in the first round 15th-20th overall....tend to be busts, or at most marginal NHL players at close to a rate of 50%.  It wouldn't be a surprise if he was just that.  Now, there are some cases where guys take a while to develop..they get to a certain age and all of a sudden, seemingly out of no-where, it all clicks. But usually you would see signs of that.  20 career goals in 215 career games, and 46 assists....its a little bit worrysome.   That is 7.5 goals and 17.5 assists, 25 points over 82 games.  Almost 3 full years in the NHL, a cup of coffee in the 4th year.  I don't know, it COULD still happen for him but right now I'm not hopeful.

Here is the bottom line for me. If it DOES click for him, I don't want it to happen while continuing to give him time on this roster. I think whatever ice time he would get here, its time to give it to someone 'better' right now.

Now, I'll contradict most of what I said and say you sigh him. Why?  I highly doubt you get anything of value for him in a trade.  So you sign him, let him try to blow you away in camp. If he does and EARNS a spot on the roster, great! if he doesn't down to Rochester he goes.  If he gets picked up on waivers on the way to Roch, well, you didn't want him up here anyway.

I agree with all this generally.  Look no further than our Zemgus Girgensons for what to expect from that part of the first round. The guys selected in this range are not often top 6 players.  
 

I don’t really have an issue with signing him to be a bottom of the lineup player.  He is NHL level at that role, but its JAG level.  Jost and Robinson, or a hair above, are where he is going to live in his career.  As long as his contract reflects that, each team has those guys.

Preference is definitely to package him to a team just starting their rebuild for a bottom 6 upgrade though.

[inkman]

35 minutes ago, Getpucksdeep said:

Wasn't he dishing two assists per game during last year's amerks playoff run? Vision yadda yadda.  Adjustment hasn't gone well I guess but it's not like he's Girgensons.

He does have a good eye for open spaces on the ice to put the puck for his linemates. What he struggled with early on was trying to do what worked in the AHL vs NHL teams. It wasn’t working, turnover central.  Saddling him with stone hands Z and cement skates Okie really nullified any chance he had at creating offense.  He worked well in between JJ & Quinn in the A.  Not that I would want to reunite them now.  Both 77 & 22 have elevated their games.  Krebs has not.  Maybe someone like Kulich and Greenway would work well together with him. Hopefully our new coach either figures that out or he gets moved. 

[inkman]

41 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Guys drafted in his range in the first round 15th-20th overall....tend to be busts, or at most marginal NHL players at close to a rate of 50%.  It wouldn't be a surprise if he was just that.  Now, there are some cases where guys take a while to develop..they get to a certain age and all of a sudden, seemingly out of no-where, it all clicks. But usually you would see signs of that.  20 career goals in 215 career games, and 46 assists....its a little bit worrysome.   That is 7.5 goals and 17.5 assists, 25 points over 82 games.  Almost 3 full years in the NHL, a cup of coffee in the 4th year.  I don't know, it COULD still happen for him but right now I'm not hopeful.

Here is the bottom line for me. If it DOES click for him, I don't want it to happen while continuing to give him time on this roster. I think whatever ice time he would get here, its time to give it to someone 'better' right now.

Now, I'll contradict most of what I said and say you sigh him. Why?  I highly doubt you get anything of value for him in a trade.  So you sign him, let him try to blow you away in camp. If he does and EARNS a spot on the roster, great! if he doesn't down to Rochester he goes.  If he gets picked up on waivers on the way to Roch, well, you didn't want him up here anyway.

I’d refrain from the bust (inkman rarely does this) term for late 1st round picks. If you are expecting a top line player there, your expectations were off.  Sure, you get a Peterka occasionally but more often than not Girgensons is what you end up you.  

Edited April 17 by inkman

[FrenchConnection44]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I think Kevyn hopes he'll be the next Casey Mittelstadt.  Maybe he's right but I'm not seeing it.

Was anyone seeing it in Casey 3 years ago? 
 

I don’t see that comp, though. Krebs is a different sort of player. 
 

I am fine with Krebs coming back but needs some real competition. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Believer said:

Agree… I like Krebs… He has high compete and enthusiasm… Loves the wall battles… Always has a smile on his face when the camera catches him on the bench… usually talking to teammates…

Kid has got to show his skills and embrace an identity if he’s not traded and given a chance by the new HC… Will be rooting for him.

I like his demeanor. However, he appears to be the caliber of player who whether dealt or retained isn't much of a difference maker. This front office needs to be focused on adding a player to replace Mitts. In my opinion, that's a player who is better than Krebs. I'm not giving up on Krebs but he needs to get better to carve out a role and roster spot for next year.  

[Brawndo]

I would rather keep him and see how he does with a new coach 

That being said. 

I would look around the league for teams that have cap issues and need to make moves.

Vegas sticks out as a team that needs relief.

Nicholas Roy has 3 years left on his deal at 3 million AAV with zero trade protection. He is your prototypical 4C, doesn’t give much if any offense but is a very good defender. 
 

As a former draft pick of theirs, is there a deal to be made around a Krebs for Roy Trade.

I am worried about Chandler Stephenson as his metrics have really dropped this year and that he would not be able to come anywhere near this year production with the Sabres. 
 

Will Carrier on the other hand, sign me up.

A Fourth Line of Greenway-Roy-Carrier would be an immense upgrade