Off-season Game Plan 2024

[Thorner]

This is the most I can ever remember the board being so nearly unanimously in favour of moving picks and prospects even the good ones. Definitely saying something. 

[French Collection]

57 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is the most I can ever remember the board being so nearly unanimously in favour of moving picks and prospects even the good ones. Definitely saying something. 

The reality of not having room for all of these forwards has settled in. Some will flame out too, better to have another organization gamble on them.

I like prospects but there comes a point where there is only room for maybe 1 or 2 at the most, in a good organization. To have a constant churn of prospects develop, contribute and leave is not productive. Lock up a core and bring in the ones that are ready when you need them for a role or to get cap relief.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

The reality of not having room for all of these forwards has settled in. Some will flame out too, better to have another organization gamble on them.

I like prospects but there comes a point where there is only room for maybe 1 or 2 at the most, in a good organization. To have a constant churn of prospects develop, contribute and leave is not productive. Lock up a core and bring in the ones that are ready when you need them for a role or to get cap relief.

There’s definitely a mental transition from earlier years where we were conditioned to think we needed to flood the system with prospects to emerge victorious by quantity. Once the system is more established the mindset necessarily shifts to utilizing said pool as currency

The better you are at drafting the easier it gets over time. We don’t really need any more prospects yet we get a free 7 every year. With less holes to fill, that puts us in a much better spot than a few years ago once/IF we get the main club up to par and it’s getting closer 

[PerreaultForever]

I was thinking today maybe all we need to make the playoffs would be to sign Lindholm in free agency and add a couple bottom end tough guys and if UPL stays the same that might be enough with Ruff in charge. A tough D man (Zadorov?) would be additionally good but maybe Samuelsson plays healthy(ish) and that too is enough to get us over the hump.

It's not that hard to do, but it has to be done. 

[SabreFinn]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I was thinking today maybe all we need to make the playoffs would be to sign Lindholm in free agency and add a couple bottom end tough guys and if UPL stays the same that might be enough with Ruff in charge. A tough D man (Zadorov?) would be additionally good but maybe Samuelsson plays healthy(ish) and that too is enough to get us over the hump.

It's not that hard to do, but it has to be done. 

I like this. I don't think it is harder than that either. 

But we probably will have to pay Lindholm more than Mitts asked for. On the other hand, EL playing at his best is one of the best two way centers in the league.

We can't rely on Samuelsson staying healty. We need to get an option there and Zadorov is not that bad.

[SabreFinn]

12 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is the most I can ever remember the board being so nearly unanimously in favour of moving picks and prospects even the good ones. Definitely saying something. 

Half of the quartet Savoie, Östlund, Rosén and Kulich will probably never get a permanent spot on the roster. But all of them are good enough to be full time NHLers. The hard thing is to evaluate who of them we need. 

[Broken Ankles]

20 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is the most I can ever remember the board being so nearly unanimously in favour of moving picks and prospects even the good ones. Definitely saying something. 

Out of the fires of desperation burn hope and solidarity. 

[dudacek]

Tampa has no picks, prospects or cap space. They are loaded with experience and edge.

The Sabres are exactly the opposite.

I don't think you'll find many teams that are a better trade match.

i wonder if Nick Paul or Tanner Jeannot might be available at a price we can afford.

Edited April 27 by dudacek

[French Collection]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Tampa has no picks, prospects or cap space. They are loaded with experience and edge.

The Sabres are exactly the opposite.

I don't think you'll find many teams that are a better trade match.

i wonder if Nick Paul or Tanner Jeannot might be available at a price we can afford.

Nick Paul would be a solid 3C. Not a great skater but he gets there. He is big and will play in front of the net. He can play special teams and has been around 50-54% on faceoffs the past few years.

I think his cap hit $3.15 for 5 or 6 more years. He is from southern Ontario and played his junior in North Bay, where we met him. Good kid.

Gaustad vibes.

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Tampa has no picks, prospects or cap space. They are loaded with experience and edge.

The Sabres are exactly the opposite.

I don't think you'll find many teams that are a better trade match.

i wonder if Nick Paul or Tanner Jeannot might be available at a price we can afford.

Tanner Jeannot would do wonders for this team. 

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Tanner Jeannot would do wonders for this team. 

Agreed. Perfect amount of grit with some skill as well.  Did his value drop after this season?  Not even close to the season he had in Nashville.  I just looked up what Tampa payed - Foote, 1st , 2nd, 3rd and a 4th.  Tampas drafting at the bottom but that is a high price.  He’s a UFA after next year so somewhat less.  Curious what the ask would be this summer.  

[Flashsabre]

Leafs about to blow it up. Crazy hypothetical situation that is more a mental exercise than reality. The guy that will probably go is Marner but with his deal and being one year from UFA and his NTC he will be tough to move and get any value for the Leafs.

Trade for Marner as long as Skinner is part of the deal. You add a young prospect and Joker to make it worthwhile for the Leafs. Does he fill the toughness or bottom six role, no but players as talented as he is don’t become available often. 

Reasoning: fans here in Toronto are ready to run him out of town on a rail. He has 1 more year left and then is a free agent. He is a tremendous regular season player who falls apart in the playoffs.  He has a NTC but Buffalo for a year might appeal as it is close to home and doesn’t have the pressure of Toronto.  Skinner has a NTC too but would most likely waive for Toronto. Joker would give them a young RHD that they need. One of the prospects would make it worthwhile for them. Skinner plus Joker’s salary offsets Marner’s so you still have money to fill out the other needs in the lineup.

Marner on the top line with Tage would easily turn him into a 50+ goal scorer. Get to the playoffs next year and see if Marner has a different playoff outcome with a different team. I’d it works out you look at your lineup and see if there is a pathway forward with him on a new deal. If he doesn’t work out he walks in FA but you have rid yourself of Skinner’s deal in the process.

Likelihood if this happening is very small but fun to think about. It is a move to get you in the playoffs next season.  The main idea of the whole trade is getting out of Skinner’s deal while rolling the dice that Marner has a different outcome in a different environment for 1 year.

I think ultimately Dubas will be all over him and bring him to Pittsburgh to play with Crosby.

Edited April 28 by Flashsabre

[French Collection]

26 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Leafs about to blow it up. Crazy hypothetical situation that is more a mental exercise than reality. The guy that will probably go is Marner but with his deal and being one year from UFA and his NTC he will be tough to move and get any value for the Leafs.

Trade for Marner as long as Skinner is part of the deal. You add a young prospect and Joker to make it worthwhile for the Leafs. Does he fill the toughness or bottom six role, no but players as talented as he is don’t become available often. 

Reasoning: fans here in Toronto are ready to run him out of town on a rail. He has 1 more year left and then is a free agent. He is a tremendous regular season player who falls apart in the playoffs.  He has a NTC but Buffalo for a year might appeal as it is close to home and doesn’t have the pressure of Toronto.  Skinner has a NTC too but would most likely waive for Toronto. Joker would give them a young RHD that they need. One of the prospects would make it worthwhile for them. Skinner plus Joker’s salary offsets Marner’s so you still have money to fill out the other needs in the lineup.

Marner on the top line with Tage would easily turn him into a 50+ goal scorer. Get to the playoffs next year and see if Marner has a different playoff outcome with a different team. I’d it works out you look at your lineup and see if there is a pathway forward with him on a new deal. If he doesn’t work out he walks in FA but you have rid yourself of Skinner’s deal in the process.

Likelihood if this happening is very small but fun to think about. It is a move to get you in the playoffs next season.  The main idea of the whole trade is getting out of Skinner’s deal while rolling the dice that Marner has a different outcome in a different environment for 1 year.

I think ultimately Dubas will be all over him and bring him to Pittsburgh to play with Crosby.

I had a similar thought today watching the Toronto media meltdown last night. I don’t like wimpy Marner but one year trial and getting away from Skinner’s contract and lack of D play is interesting. 
His playmaking would be an asset in the regular season but his softness in the playoffs would not change.

I would sweeten the deal with Rosen, who seems less likely to help the Sabres.

[dudacek]

The Leafs would get a very nice return for Marner without taking on anything close to Skinner's salary.

[Flashsabre]

59 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The Leafs would get a very nice return for Marner without taking on anything close to Skinner's salary.

Will they? His salary is $10.9 million and he has a no movement and is one year from UFA. How many teams can take on that cap hit, be a team Marner will waive to go to and will want to give up this very nice return for one year of Marner?

I think it will be a tricky move to pull off for them and get value back.

Edited April 28 by Flashsabre

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Will they? His salary is $10.9 million and he has a no movement and is one year from UFA. How many teams can take on that cap hit, be a team Marner will waive to go to and will want to give up this very nice return for one year of Marner?

I think it will be a tricky move to pull off for them and get value back.

 

If the Leafs can't get positive value for Marner, they keep him and let him walk. I think they'd rather have $11M in cap space than $2M in cap space and Jeff Skinner.

You think the MNC improves the odds for the Sabres?

History shows it means a trade to a contender of Marner's choice for a late 1st and whatever lesser pieces it takes to balance out contract and value.

Marner is no cap dump, no matter what his playoff failures, He's an NHL star on a rental contract.

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

 

If the Leafs can't get positive value for Marner, they keep him and let him walk. I think they'd rather have $11M in cap space than $2M in cap space and Jeff Skinner.

You think the MNC improves the odds for the Sabres?

History shows it means a trade to a contender of Marner's choice for a late 1st and whatever lesser pieces it takes to balance out contract and value.

Marner is no cap dump, no matter what his playoff failures, He's an NHL star on a rental contract.

I don’t know if they can keep him for another year. It is really ugly in Toronto right now. This will be 8 years of this group completely failing in the playoff. One of the big four has to move. Matthews isn’t going anywhere, Nylander just signed his extension, Tavares is unmovable so that leaves Marner. The media are destroying him here and I wouldn’t be surprised if he welcomed a move.

I don’t think a trade with Buffalo will happen but as far as the NMC he has one year left before UFA so a move down the road to Buffalo is most convient for him for a year and gets him out of the scrutiny of Toronto.

I have no idea what they do but fans are calling for the whole thing to be blown up for the first time.  I expect Shanahan and Keefe to be canned.

Edited April 28 by Flashsabre

[Archie Lee]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:22 PM, Thorny said:

This is the most I can ever remember the board being so nearly unanimously in favour of moving picks and prospects even the good ones. Definitely saying something. 

I’m fine with moving a high-end prospect or two this off-season. My preference, though, would be to address our top-end needs (middle six forward, 2nd pair D) through free agency and to trade some secondary pieces (Joker, B-prospects, 2nd rd picks and later) to fill out the 4th line and depth positions. 

If the Sabres are serious this off-season and spend to the cap (hopefully with a Skinner buyout), then whether they acquire new players via trade or free agency it will put them in a difficult cap position next year with Peterka, Quinn, Byram as RFAs (and Levi). I’m not afraid of that and indeed hope we are in a difficult cap position a year from now.  I want them to have tough decisions to make regarding  RFA’s or trading a vet or two to make space.  If we are in such a difficult spot, then the more good prospects we have to challenge for vacated roles, the better. 

There should be no rush to trade or promote our top prospects. In 04-05, Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Gaustad and Miller were in Rochester and their average age to start the season was 21.6. Next year to start the season the average age of Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Östlund and Levi will be a full year younger. I’m not opposed to trading one or two in the right deals, but improving through free agency and keeping prospect bullets in the chamber, so to speak, for when the cap crunch hits, should be an option. 

[thewookie1]

Frankly I see little to no scenario we buyout Skinner this offseason; the earliest I could see it is next season  

[Night Train]

Never say never but name players with big contracts isn't something I see the Sabres seeking. They have already overpaid some young guys that need to improve a lot to justify their contracts.

Players that can win a faceoff and don't avoid physical play are needed.  Ruff can't be comfortable with this current roster. 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m fine with moving a high-end prospect or two this off-season. My preference, though, would be to address our top-end needs (middle six forward, 2nd pair D) through free agency and to trade some secondary pieces (Joker, B-prospects, 2nd rd picks and later) to fill out the 4th line and depth positions. 

If the Sabres are serious this off-season and spend to the cap (hopefully with a Skinner buyout), then whether they acquire new players via trade or free agency it will put them in a difficult cap position next year with Peterka, Quinn, Byram as RFAs (and Levi). I’m not afraid of that and indeed hope we are in a difficult cap position a year from now.  I want them to have tough decisions to make regarding  RFA’s or trading a vet or two to make space.  If we are in such a difficult spot, then the more good prospects we have to challenge for vacated roles, the better. 

There should be no rush to trade or promote our top prospects. In 04-05, Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Gaustad and Miller were in Rochester and their average age to start the season was 21.6. Next year to start the season the average age of Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Östlund and Levi will be a full year younger. I’m not opposed to trading one or two in the right deals, but improving through free agency and keeping prospect bullets in the chamber, so to speak, for when the cap crunch hits, should be an option. 

When people say they want to add a 2nd-pair D, do they mean the team doesn't have enough good defencemen?

Or does it mean they don't like the mix and want to move a defenceman out in exchange for a different type of defenceman?

[Archie Lee]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

Frankly I see little to no scenario we buyout Skinner this offseason; the earliest I could see it is next season  

Assuming the Sabres plan to be a cap team from here (no sure thing, I understand), then from a cap perspective, the only significant value in waiting a year is avoiding the 6th year cap hit of $2,444,444. The benefit in buying him out now is $7.5 million in space this season to remake the roster.  From an actual dollars spent perspective, waiting a year saves Pegula about $3.7 million ( I think). 

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

When people say they want to add a 2nd-pair D, do they mean the team doesn't have enough good defencemen?

Or does it mean they don't like the mix and want to move a defenceman out in exchange for a different type of defenceman?

For me it is the mix. 

[dudacek]

To my mind:

• Dahlin is a clear-cut #1
• Power is a 2/3 with #1 upside
• Byram is a 3/4 with 1st-pair upside
• Samuelsson is a 3/4 with injury issues
• Jokiharju is a 4/5
• Clifton is a 4/5
• Johnson is a 6/7 with 4/5 upside
• Bryson is a 7

As a group they seem to skate and transition very well, defend the rush pretty well, need improvement boxing out and with in-zone reads, add to the attack nicely, and lack nasty.

Ideally, they would add some snarl and defensive acumen, but I think in general that's a deep, highly-skilled group with everyone properly slotted. I'm curious to see what Lindy can do with them.

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

 

For me it is the mix. 

Payroll is interesting:

• Dahlin will the league's 3rd-highest paid defenceman next year
• Power will be paid like an average 1D
• Samuelsson like a good 3D
• Byram and Clifton like average 2nd-pairing guys
• And Jokiharju has probably earned a deal like Clifton's

Obviously the Mule, Dahlin and Power contracts are designed to hurt most this coming year, but this is not a cheap group

 

[Rasmus_]

What we want to see happen:

1) Make serious changes to the bottom six.

2) Move out a few defensemen and upgrade at least one of the top 4. 

3) Add a solid "#2 center" with upside

4) Move Krebs for value

 

What will happen: 

1) Rochester kids call up

2) Worthless lackluster depth additions that have no cohesiveness with the team, and or have fallen off a cliff.

 

Kevyn Adams is a pathetic overeager mouthpiece and puppet for the Pegula's.  I'm sure he wants to do well in a perfect world, but he's too busy sucking off the taint of Terry.  It's a farse.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To my mind:

• Dahlin is a clear-cut #1
• Power is a 2/3 with #1 upside
• Byram is a 3/4 with 1st-pair upside
• Samuelsson is a 3/4 with injury issues
• Jokiharju is a 4/5
• Clifton is a 4/5
• Johnson is a 6/7 with 4/5 upside
• Bryson is a 7

 

Ryan Johnson outplayed almost every single one of the players you listed above him here. Just to toss that out. Actually... hold that thought.