Off-season Game Plan 2024

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Night Train said:

Sabres need 5-6 new forwards, IMO. That may come from promoting a couple of the young guys but that still means going out and getting some Vets. 

Still, a big issue was the huge production decline form our top 2 lines. I like JJ and Quinn (if he can stay healthy) but can TT, Tuch, Cozens and more wake up ? Is Skinner a buyout ?   Trying to blame bottom 6 guys like Jost,Krebs etc. for our issues is beyond silly. Our so called stars let us down. 

No doubt players like Thompson and Cozens had bad years.   I don't think it will happen again to this same extent, I expect them both to be back.  

The bottom six does not contribute enough.   They don't bring any of the intangibles you want from lines that score less.  

As you said 5 or 6 forwards need to be replaced.  

[Pimlach]

On 4/23/2024 at 5:35 PM, Flashsabre said:

OK, coach is hired, vibes, accountability talk.

The real work needs to begin. 
 

Step 1: Fill out the staff with quality NHL level coaches

Step 2: Identify what pieces Ruff feels are missing from the lineup. A checking line with some energy and grit is a must. Centre that can win key draws. Sounds like Lindy wants an enforcer type he can move in and out of the lineup.

Step 3: Adams needs to step up and get these pieces. Prospects and draft picks need to be on the table for quality NHL players

You can tell by Adams demeanour today that he knows his ass is over the fire and he better deliver.

Yes.   Lindy looks at the little things that add up.  Win face-offs and you have the puck more.   Have a true shut down line to protect leads.  Have an enforcer to prevent your stars from doing that role.  

I commented last year on Lindy's Devils.  They played us fast and open to start and their skill overwhelmed our at the time bad team defense.  They took a 3 goal lead in the first.   Then a 4 goal lead in the second.  Halfway through the second he had them shut everything down and bottled up the neutral zone.  They scored twice more by capitalizing on our inability to pierce their defensive shell.  

He basically had them play two styles and they won easily.   

Meanwhile Granato was teaching offense and saving defense for the next season.   Ruff, and most coaches, start with defensive responsibility as the core of the system.  But he knows he has a few guns and some wheels to work with.  

The players will have a lot to learn before the season opener.  I hope he brings in all new assistants.  

Edited April 26 by Pimlach

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

What makes it funny @Thorny ?

 

Sorry, just saw this 

What was the actual quoted number in the article? 7 mil AAV or 3.5? If it was 3.5, just ignore this whole post:

- - - 

I just chuckled to myself because you are pretty consistently against actually prioritizing the now whenever push comes to shove, despite advocating occasionally for otherwise. Saying you are only good with Tofolli if he comes to us at a whopping 50% of the projected AAV is the same thing as saying you aren’t interested. Which is fine on merit obv, but imo you just seem most concerned with our ability to lock up a roster that hasn’t amounted to anything and not very interested in actual improvement in the now

You can correct me if I am wrong but you don’t seem willing to give up much of anything to improve and seem to only want moves if they are unrealistically lopsided in our favour. Have your cake and eat it too type stuff 

There’s zero presence that I can glean of a willingness to “bite the bullet”, to make any sort of trade or signing that stings a little bit: which is of course what actual trades amount to 

Edited April 25 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Sorry just saw this.

I just chuckled to myself because you are pretty consistently against actually prioritizing the now whenever push comes to shove, despite advocating occasionally for otherwise. Saying you are only good with Tofolli if he comes to us at a whopping 50% of the projected AAV is the same thing as saying you aren’t interested. You see seem most concerned with our ability to lock up a roster that hasn’t amounted to anything and not very interested in actual improvement in the now

You can correct me if I am wrong but you don’t seem willing to give up much of anything to improve and seem to only want moves if they are unrealistically lopsided in our favour  

There’s zero presence that I can glean of a willingness to “bite the bullet”, to make any sort of trade or signing that stings a little bit: which is of course what actual trades amount to 

The trade for Karlsson is something I mostly like, I just feel it shouldn't require our Top C prospect to get since Vegas is going to have to move someone due to their absurd cap situation. (Plus I just really don't want to give Vegas another dynamic center)

As for Toffoli, I do really like his experience and continued competence on the ice; however, even if I may want to push more for the present I really don't want to end up in a situation with Quinn, Peterka and Levi having great seasons but losing 1 because we need to retain a 33 year old winger. If Peterka or Quinn flame out it wouldn't be a problem but in the best case scenario I don't want all of our happiness to get stabbed viciously by losing a young star.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

The trade for Karlsson is something I mostly like, I just feel it shouldn't require our Top C prospect to get since Vegas is going to have to move someone due to their absurd cap situation. (Plus I just really don't want to give Vegas another dynamic center)

As for Toffoli, I do really like his experience and continued competence on the ice; however, even if I may want to push more for the present I really don't want to end up in a situation with Quinn, Peterka and Levi having great seasons but losing 1 because we need to retain a 33 year old winger. If Peterka or Quinn flame out it wouldn't be a problem but in the best case scenario I don't want all of our happiness to get stabbed viciously by losing a young star.

They can’t hurt us anymore than they already have, we’ll get through it together as an online family 

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

They can’t hurt us anymore than they already have, we’ll get through it together as an online family 

That team hurts me constantly; they run counter to everything I love about hockey and its structures.  
 

Ironically my Armchair GM also ended up with issues for Quinn and Peterka only I used money on Matt Roy.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Quick question.  How does KA fill the hole at 2/3C?  

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Quick question.  How does KA fill the hole at 2/3C?  

I’d trade picks/prospects for a vet under contract.

[Thorner]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Quick question.  How does KA fill the hole at 2/3C?  

What do you think our first round pick is worth? 

[thewookie1]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Quick question.  How does KA fill the hole at 2/3C?  

The best candidates for success would likely be Bennett or Karlsson. 
 

Stephenson would likely want Mitts money thus ending that option.

 

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What do you think our first round pick is worth? 

I’d assume a good deal; once the lottery is over I’d be open to moving it.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The players will have a lot to learn before the season opener.  I hope he brings in all new assistants.  

I've heard him repeat a few things several times and it amounts to 1)lots of talent here that he is excited to work with but 2)there is a LOT of work to do meaning this team is a shitshow and needs to learn how to play proper hockey. 

But ultimately I think he took the job because he feels the things this team needs he can in fact teach them. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

What do you think our first round pick is worth? 

Depends on what you are after and which team you are talking to. Probably easy to swap that pick for a bottom 6 guy if a team wants a new direction or wants to get younger. Otherwise I think if you look at the 4 firsts for a star forward idea you discount it down from there. 

Unless he is old or flawed you won't get a 2C for one first round pick that's for sure. 

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Depends on what you are after and which team you are talking to. Probably easy to swap that pick for a bottom 6 guy if a team wants a new direction or wants to get younger. Otherwise I think if you look at the 4 firsts for a star forward idea you discount it down from there. 

Unless he is old or flawed you won't get a 2C for one first round pick that's for sure. 

I’m calling shenanigans on that. Not for JUST a 1st, but considering where our first falls I think it’s easily the most expensive piece in a trade for a legit top 6 f

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I’m calling shenanigans on that. Not for JUST a 1st, but considering where our first falls I think it’s easily the most expensive piece in a trade for a legit top 6 f

Why? Unless the forward is, as I said, old or flawed, who would want to give up a proven pro for a maybe someday? 

I guess maybe if there's a team with serious cap issues (and nobody to put on LTIR following a cup win) they might look at it but otherwise I can't see it. Most teams are not in perpetual rebuild like the Sabres have been. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why? Unless the forward is, as I said, old or flawed, who would want to give up a proven pro for a maybe someday? 

I guess maybe if there's a team with serious cap issues (and nobody to put on LTIR following a cup win) they might look at it but otherwise I can't see it. Most teams are not in perpetual rebuild like the Sabres have been. 

Because 1st round picks are drastically overvalued 

Have you seen the movie Draft Day with Kevin Costner? It’s really good. If you watch that you’ll see what I mean 

not in terms of my post it has nothing to do with that, it’s just a really good movie, you’ll see 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Because 1st round picks are drastically overvalued 

I don't really think that is true, which is why the top teams trade them away at deadlines so often and there are very very few trades for first round picks at the draft. So I guess you can say they are overvalued by those that have them, but that also means you won't get a deal for them either. 

[Thorner]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

I don't really think that is true, which is why the top teams trade them away at deadlines so often and there are very very few trades for first round picks at the draft. So I guess you can say they are overvalued by those that have them, but that also means you won't get a deal for them either. 

I said it’s possible and we should do it, not that we will. Teams definitely treat firsts like gold 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I said it’s possible and we should do it, not that we will. Teams definitely treat firsts like gold 

Okay I'd agree with that. I would do it too. I want every hole on this roster filled. No more waiting. 

[thewookie1]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Because 1st round picks are drastically overvalued 

Have you seen the movie Draft Day with Kevin Costner? It’s really good. If you watch that you’ll see what I mean 

not in terms of my post it has nothing to do with that, it’s just a really good movie, you’ll see 

Frankly, the lottery is what makes 1sts so much more valuable. When the Top 12 can give you #1, it inflates the value immensely versus 1sts from 13 on

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

What do you think our first round pick is worth? 

2022 #7 (plus a 2nd) for Alex Debrincat

2022 #12 for #27 #34 and #45

2022 #14 for Kirby Dach or Alex Romanov

2022 #19 (plus Brock Faber) for Kevin Fiala

2021 #9 for Connor Garland (plus a bunch of cap dumps)

2021 #14 (plus a 2nd) for Rasmus Ristolainen

2021 #15 for #23, #48 and #138

2020 #15 for Kasperi Kapanen

2019 #11 for #14 and #45

2018 #12 (plus 2 2nds) for Travis Hamonic

Most recent time I can find a summer trade of a pick in the Sabres range involving a middle 6 centre was #7 and Tony DeAngelo for Antti Raanta and Derek Stepan, when Stepan was a 27-year-old 55-point scorer.

I've stayed away from rentals.

Edited April 26 by dudacek

[Thorner]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

2022 #7 (plus a 2nd) for Alex Debrincat

2022 #12 for #27 #34 and #45

2022 #14 for Kirby Dach or Alex Romanov

2022 #19 (plus Brock Faber) for Kevin Fiala

2021 #9 for Connor Garland (plus a bunch of cap dumps)

2021 #14 (plus a 2nd) for Rasmus Ristolainen

2021 #15 for #23, #48 and #138

2020 #15 for Kasperi Kapanen

2019 #11 for #14 and #45

2018 #12 (plus 2 2nds) for Travis Hamonic

Most recent time I can find a summer trade of a pick in the Sabres range involving a middle 6 centre was #7 and Tony DeAngelo for Antti Raanta and Derek Stepan, when Stepan was a 27-year-old 55-point scorer.

I've stayed away from rentals.

So some good players there and Ristolainen.. not bad 

[#freejame]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

So some good players there and Ristolainen.. not bad 

I’d rather package our first with one or more of our young players and prospects to get someone better than anyone on that list.

Whoever gets the best player in the present almost always wins the trade. I don’t give any about how much it could potentially hurt our team in five years from now. We are losers now, it’s not like we can be downgraded to super losers. We’d have hit that status years ago. 

Edited April 26 by #freejame
The sweat filter is removing the word but not replacing it with “#####.” That seems strange to me.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

I’d rather package our first with one or more of our young players and prospects to get someone better than anyone on that list.

Whoever gets the best player in the present almost always wins the trade. I don’t give any about how much it could potentially hurt our team in five years from now. We are losers now, it’s not like we can be downgraded to super losers. We’d have hit that status years ago. 

We are already super losers.  Record setters, FFS.  That’s why I don’t understand the angst over “what if prospect X becomes awesome somewhere else”.  I don’t give a damned about prospect X being good for someone else a few years down the line.  I care about this team right now playing its way back to respectability.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

We are already super losers.  Record setters, FFS.  That’s why I don’t understand the angst over “what if prospect X becomes awesome somewhere else”.  I don’t give a damned about prospect X being good for someone else a few years down the line.  I care about this team right now playing its way back to respectability.

I would trade just about any prospect we have and have no issue trading our #11 overall pick.

[Flashsabre]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I would trade just about any prospect we have and have no issue trading our #11 overall pick.

The one guy I wouldn’t move right now is Wahlberg because his overall package is so different from anything else they have.

But the other top prospects and #11 are on the table for the right impact player.