Off-season Game Plan 2024

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree with your assessment of Greenway.  I don't think he will be on the 4th line.  

I think the reason fans move him to the 4th line in projections (I've done it) is less about him being a 4th line player than it is with us having nobody else who remotely fits a 4th line wing profile.  Fans are expecting that we will either upgrade the forward roster or add one of the prospects.  If that happens on the wing, then the house is full.  Barring a buyout or trade of a roster player, then Skinner, Tuch, Peterka, Quinn and Benson are locks for top 9 roles on the wing.  It's a bit of wish fulfillment. If Greenway is on line 4, then it means we have brought in an upgrade.   

It is also a sign of a strong top 9.  Nothing wrong with 4th lines, the better teams roll them a lot.  He could be 4th line and first PK and be effective.  

[Archie Lee]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It is also a sign of a strong top 9.  Nothing wrong with 4th lines, the better teams roll them a lot.  He could be 4th line and first PK and be effective.  

I’m not quite ready to commit to this conclusion yet. Tuch is legit. In this scenario, the player acquisition who pushes Greenway to line 4 is likely at least a legit solid veteran player with some offence. After that we have question marks. Skinner is an uncertainty. I love Quinn, Peterka, and Benson, but they will be 23, 22 and 19 to start next season. All have shown signs they can be top 6 wingers in the NHL. I think there is still risk in expecting them to be this next season. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Does Adams have it in him to be as aggressive as the Panthers to re-shape and improve his club?  

I went and looked at the Panthers roster, only Barkov, Lundell, Ekblad and Knight are draft picks.  The rest are mostly trades and free agents plus one critical waiver pickup in Forsling.  Over the course of 15 months the Panthers acquired Montour and Reinhart from us plus Bennett and Tkachuk from Calgary to significantly help re-shape their team.  

You could argue that the Mitts trade was the first step in that direction.  Possibly, the next few weeks will tell the tale.  The trade market, with 30 teams now home should begin to heat up.  
 

 

[dudacek]

Not sure whether the Greenway conversation is more about what role people want him in, what players they want him to play with, or where he ranks on the ice time depth chart.

For me, I am remembering a Lindy Ruff who consistently played Jochen Hecht with Briere and Mike Grier with Drury.

I have listened to coach, players and GM talk about the need for structure. And I have watched how much better Greenway is at structure than most of the other forwards.

I expect him to be playing a lot.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure whether the Greenway conversation is more about what role people want him in, what players they want him to play with, or where he ranks on the ice time depth chart.

For me, I am remembering a Lindy Ruff who consistently played Jochen Hecht with Briere and Mike Grier with Drury.

I have listened to coach, players and GM talk about the need for structure. And I have watched how much better Greenway is at structure than most of the other forwards.

I expect him to be playing a lot.

I like him too - that’s why when I say I envision him reasonably on the 4th line it’s because I’m necessarily envisioning him as part of a revamped bottom 6 that deserves plenty of minutes: it’s an area I’d look to make up ground on against other teams if at all possible. Turning from a weakness to a strength would be nice for a change. If Greenway is L3RW, then I simply mean I’d want a player as good as him when we go looking for the other 2 bottom 6 wingers we need (and the 2 bottom 6 Cs)

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does Adams have it in him to be as aggressive as the Panthers to re-shape and improve his club?  

I went and looked at the Panthers roster, only Barkov, Lundell, Ekblad and Knight are draft picks.  The rest are mostly trades and free agents plus one critical waiver pickup in Forsling.  Over the course of 15 months the Panthers acquired Montour and Reinhart from us plus Bennett and Tkachuk from Calgary to significantly help re-shape their team.  

You could argue that the Mitts trade was the first step in that direction.  Possibly, the next few weeks will tell the tale.  The trade market, with 30 teams now home should begin to heat up.  
 

 

I don’t think so, but it’s an interesting comparison.

One could argue the Panthers did what they did after a Sabres-style rebuild around Barkov, Huberdeau, Gudbranson etc. failed.

Some argued it’s what the Sabres should have done.

But Kevyn Adams chose a different path and he thinks his players are better than you do.

He’s going to sink or swim with this ship

Edited June 6 by dudacek

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I like him too - that’s why when I say I envision him reasonably on the 4th line it’s because I’m necessarily envisioning him as part of a revamped bottom 6 that deserves plenty of minutes: it’s an area I’d look to make up ground on against other teams if at all possible. Turning from a weakness to a strength would be nice for a change. If Greenway is L3RW, then I simply mean I’d want a player as good as him when we go looking for the other 2 bottom 6 wingers we need (and the 2 bottom 6 Cs)

Plus most of this is really just in theory anyways.

Someone in the top 9 WILL be hurt. Multiple. If Greenway is “pencilled in” on line 4 that really means we have a capable player filling in within the top 9 WHEN the first injury takes place aka game 1.
 

Just keep adding good players. We aren’t close to ready. 

Edited June 6 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

50 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But Kevyn Adams chose a different path and he thinks his players are better than you do.

Kevyn always been known for his great pro talent evaluation skills after all. 😉

As to Greenway, outside of the 20/21 when he had 32 pts in 56 games, he’s basically been what we saw this past season; a 28 pt player who also contributes off the puck.  My hope is that that makes him a 4th line player for the Sabres next fall.  

This is not a criticism of Greenway, but I realization that 5/6 of our top 6 is set with only a debate between Skinner and Benson for the 6th slot.  With either Skinner or Benson, I want to build a scoring line around that skill player.  My preference is to move Skinner to the 3rd line and invest in a very good 3rd line center.  Nothing wrong with Greenway on the 3rd line and Ruff may go that route.  However, as I have posted previously, if Savoie makes the team, I think I’d rather have him on the wing with Skinner and the new 3C to create a potentially very skilled 3rd scoring line.  

I’d then try to build a physically powerful 4th energy line centered on Greenway.  

Edited June 6 by GASabresIUFAN

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m not quite ready to commit to this conclusion yet. Tuch is legit. In this scenario, the player acquisition who pushes Greenway to line 4 is likely at least a legit solid veteran player with some offence. After that we have question marks. Skinner is an uncertainty. I love Quinn, Peterka, and Benson, but they will be 23, 22 and 19 to start next season. All have shown signs they can be top 6 wingers in the NHL. I think there is still risk in expecting them to be this next season. 

Well you should expect it because at least 2 will be around next season.   Now if the Sabres do make some big trades this off season then  then I could see one of them going. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well you should expect it because at least 2 will be around next season.   Now if the Sabres do make some big trades this off season then  then I could see one of them going. 

My sense is that I don't see any of the three players that @Archie Lee listed (Quinn, JJP and Benson) being a piece in a major deal. It just seems to me that KA is committed to his prospects that have moved up to the NHL. However, that's not to say that the GM won't include some high-end prospects and high draft pick in a deal that would be categorized as little less than a major deal. 

Will the GM be active in pursuing players this offseason?  Probably so, but they will be players who will be used to reconfigure and bulk up the lower lines. I say that because that is what he has repeatedly stated so. As the saying goes: TBD.

[dudacek]

You can’t take anything for granted.

But I don’t think it is a stretch to expect 25-30 goals and 50-60 points from each of Quinn and Peterka next year.

Third-year forwards with their track records often have productive seasons simply through the experience they’ve gained.

It’s a pace each produced at last year and there’s a pretty good case they’ll enter the season as the team”s #2 and #3 wingers after Tuch.

The ice time should be there.

There’s also a chance each could get more PP time, given the need to revamp the PP, the fact Appert will be in charge of it, and how each had great PP success under Seth in Rochester.

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You can’t take anything for granted.

But I don’t think it is a stretch to expect 25-30 goals and 50-60 points from each of Quinn and Peterka next year.

Third-year forwards with their track records often have productive seasons simply through the experience they’ve gained.

It’s a pace each produced at last year and there’s a pretty good case they’ll enter the season as the team”s #2 and #3 wingers after Tuch.

The ice time should be there.

There’s also a chance each could get more PP time, given the need to revamp the PP, the fact Appert will be in charge of it, and how each had great PP success under Seth in Rochester.

If either of them don't hit that it will be a major disappointment this coming season.

[Brawndo]

Jeff Marek was on WGR this AM and reiterated this is a playoffs or bust season for the organization and he expects a fax machine full of pink paper if they miss. 
 

He fully expects 11 OA and prospect to be moved as well 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Jeff Marek was on WGR this AM and reiterated this is a playoffs or bust season for the organization and he expects a fax machine full of pink paper if they miss. 
 

He fully expects 11 OA and prospect to be moved as well 

Seems there has been a shift in terms of what Adams said at the end of the season until now, although I won't believe he will trade one of his precocious top 9 until I see him do it. 

[LTS]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Jeff Marek was on WGR this AM and reiterated this is a playoffs or bust season for the organization and he expects a fax machine full of pink paper if they miss. 
 

He fully expects 11 OA and prospect to be moved as well 

As long as 11OA and a prospect isn't to move up the board and draft 9OA or something like that I think I can live with that move.

I would suspect Kulich is the one being shopped... or Ryan Johnson.  I guess Savoie could be in there as well.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Seems there has been a shift in terms of what Adams said at the end of the season until now, although I won't believe he will trade one of his precocious top 9 until I see him do it. 

Is there?  When asked directly 3 days after the trade deadline if he would trade prospects and or picks for guys that can play in the top 9, he literally said "absolutely, yes."

Where/what is the change in what was said from then to now?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Is there?  When asked directly 3 days after the trade deadline if he would trade prospects and or picks for guys that can play in the top 9, he literally said "absolutely, yes."

Where/what is the change in what was said from then to now?

He has repeated said that he is looking to fill out his bottom 6. I believe the paraphrasing was wants to fill out the bottom 6 and give them a more physical dimension/identity. Now it is sounding like he will make a move in the top 6 and to me that seem to indicate a shift. 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He has repeated said that he is looking to fill out his bottom 6. I believe the paraphrasing was wants to fill out the bottom 6 and give them a more physical dimension/identity. Now it is sounding like he will make a move in the top 6 and to me that seem to indicate a shift. 

I'm with Taro here.

He's certainly given more emphasis to the bottom 6, but he has directly answered the question of top 6 with a 'yes' (Seravalli interview I think)

To me it's been more of (paraphrasing) we will upgrade the bottom 6, we will try to upgrade the top 6.

Edited June 7 by dudacek

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

He has repeated said that he is looking to fill out his bottom 6. I believe the paraphrasing was wants to fill out the bottom 6 and give them a more physical dimension/identity. Now it is sounding like he will make a move in the top 6 and to me that seem to indicate a shift. 

He was saying back in mid-March that he wants an experienced top 9 W (personally took that as another shout out to Kane that he'll always be welcome) so that IMHO is actually looking for a 2nd line W.  He also said that he wants an experienced 4C that is excellent on the PK and on faceoffs.  As am in no way convinced that Krebs will be effective in a 3C role (nor that Savoie or Kulich can win that job out of the gate; really hope they can't and it could be that hope factoring in too much) but they (he and Granato at the time) had to talk up the possibility of Krebs being the 3C & being given the opportunity to be the 3C that though he said he wants a 4C, he really is in the market for a legit 3C (and if a legit 3C with 2 way game gets forced to 4C, all the better).

So, again, personally don't see a shift in what Adams has been publicly calling for because he's been calling for those 2 roles since the trade deadline passed.  He also said he was looking for a top 4 D for 2 years which is why he pulled the trigger on the Mittelstadt trade and he's also talked about the 4th line having an identity since about that time.  But have always seen the reenvisioning of the 4th line to be in addition to those other 2 moves, not instead of them.

[LTS]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He has repeated said that he is looking to fill out his bottom 6. I believe the paraphrasing was wants to fill out the bottom 6 and give them a more physical dimension/identity. Now it is sounding like he will make a move in the top 6 and to me that seem to indicate a shift. 

Top 9, Bottom 6 overlap.

That said, given the cynical nature of fans, what if moving 11OA and a prospect is for a can't miss 4th line player? 😉

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm with Taro here.

He's certainly given more emphasis to the bottom 6, but he has directly answered the question of top 6 with a 'yes' (Seravalli interview I think)

To me it's been more of (paraphrasing) we will upgrade the bottom 6, we will try to upgrade the top 6.

And I am saying "try" seems to be turning into "will"

 

32 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was saying back in mid-March that he wants an experienced top 9 W (personally took that as another shout out to Kane that he'll always be welcome) so that IMHO is actually looking for a 2nd line W.  He also said that he wants an experienced 4C that is excellent on the PK and on faceoffs.  As am in no way convinced that Krebs will be effective in a 3C role (nor that Savoie or Kulich can win that job out of the gate; really hope they can't and it could be that hope factoring in too much) but they (he and Granato at the time) had to talk up the possibility of Krebs being the 3C & being given the opportunity to be the 3C that though he said he wants a 4C, he really is in the market for a legit 3C (and if a legit 3C with 2 way game gets forced to 4C, all the better).

So, again, personally don't see a shift in what Adams has been publicly calling for because he's been calling for those 2 roles since the trade deadline passed.  He also said he was looking for a top 4 D for 2 years which is why he pulled the trigger on the Mittelstadt trade and he's also talked about the 4th line having an identity since about that time.  But have always seen the reenvisioning of the 4th line to be in addition to those other 2 moves, not instead of them.

I am saying that I see a shift in that he seems to be seeking changes to his top 6 which is not what he has said. You are arguing with me over top 6 versus top 9. I feel there is a difference. I don't honestly care if others don't, to each their own. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Top 9, Bottom 6 overlap.

That said, given the cynical nature of fans, what if moving 11OA and a prospect is for a can't miss 4th line player? 😉

Then Kevyn Adams should be fired on the draft floor. 

[LTS]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Then Kevyn Adams should be fired on the draft floor. 

I'll just hope the Sabres have someone standing by to slap the phone out of his hand, just in case.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And I am saying "try" seems to be turning into "will"

 

I am saying that I see a shift in that he seems to be seeking changes to his top 6 which is not what he has said. You are arguing with me over top 6 versus top 9. I feel there is a difference. I don't honestly care if others don't, to each their own. 

There IS a difference (to a degree).  But DURING the season (which is when Adams 1st spoke) if you are the GM are you going to go on record publicly as saying the guys that are actually at the level you're looking to upgrade aren't good enough?  Personally, can't see a GM do that, especially 3 days after the opportunity to try to bring that guy in has passed.

And, am not 'arguing."  Am "discussing."  Simply not agreeing in lockstep does not mean an argument has entailed.  My 2 cents.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Then Kevyn Adams should be fired on the draft floor. 

Would you be more receptive to a trade that sent out our top pick and high-end prospect for a 3C and a tough fourth liner?