steveoath Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 Article/interview with Granato in the athletic is interesting. Players talking about being pushed harder Fairburn adds: “As for how demanding his practices were, Granato noted they had 56 games with one day or no days between games. He said, “Your job as a coach is to push your team and create urgency. You’re balancing all the time how hard you can push”.” I think he came across positively, but also rather naive.
#freejame Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 3 hours ago, steveoath said: Article/interview with Granato in the athletic is interesting. Players talking about being pushed harder Fairburn adds: “As for how demanding his practices were, Granato noted they had 56 games with one day or no days between games. He said, “Your job as a coach is to push your team and create urgency. You’re balancing all the time how hard you can push”.” I think he came across positively, but also rather naive. There wasn’t a thread on it so I didn’t bring it up, but naive is a good word for it, definitely. He was way out of his league.
Brawndo Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: I'm saying Sullivan has worked with a locker room filled with seasoned veterans and at least one of the best leaders in the league. How he'd function in a room like we have is unknown. Bylsma had ROR when he was still loving it. The Sabres would have a pretty good idea of what he would bring to the table. He has a relationship with Jason Karmanos, Sam Ventura and Mike Bales was on His Staff. In the unlikely event the Penguins let him go he should get consideration for the Sabres HC Position
tom webster Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 1 hour ago, #freejame said: There wasn’t a thread on it so I didn’t bring it up, but naive is a good word for it, definitely. He was way out of his league. He’s not the only coach that ever thought treating athletes like adults was the way to go and it has worked for others. History has proven that all types of coaches win. You can debate his system or lack thereof but he didn’t lose because he was easy on them. In my opinion, if accountability was really the problem, the real failure is on guys like Okposo and other veteran leaders. This team needed someone like Chris Drury, Daniel Briere, Mike Grier and JP Dumont. Guys that ran Satan off the team and wouldn’t tolerate anyone not giving it their all. 1 5
Archie Lee Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 (edited) 48 minutes ago, tom webster said: He’s not the only coach that ever thought treating athletes like adults was the way to go and it has worked for others. History has proven that all types of coaches win. You can debate his system or lack thereof but he didn’t lose because he was easy on them. In my opinion, if accountability was really the problem, the real failure is on guys like Okposo and other veteran leaders. This team needed someone like Chris Drury, Daniel Briere, Mike Grier and JP Dumont. Guys that ran Satan off the team and wouldn’t tolerate anyone not giving it their all. I agree with your first paragraph. Less so the second. The Sabres are in the midst of a familiar narrative. Granato is perceived as having been soft on the players and the response is we need a coach who is more demanding. Hopefully that coach is successful for a period, but there is a better than even chance that 2-4 years from now we are looking for a coach who, as you say, treats the players like adults. Both styles can be successful. I tend to agree with Granato’s comments in the article. When a coach is fired a narrative forms. The players in their exit interviews, for the most part, stuck with the narrative. With nearly a week of distance between the firing and today, I am more certain than ever that the main culprit for last year’s team falling short is Adams (with a maybe to Pegula, as we may never know if there were spending limits). Yes the power play was bad and the slow starts were killers. These and other things got Granato fired. I’m ok with that. More accomplished coaches have been fired for less. But the Sabres as a playoff contender were a seriously flawed team. Those flaws were going to manifest themselves in some fashion. At best this roster was good for WC2 and a likely 1st rd exit. While that would be better than missing the playoffs, I can’t in good conscience say that I think Granato accomplished less, particularly when you consider last year as well, than Sullivan or Tortorella or Lalonde. I’m fine with the coaching change. I’ve said for several weeks now that the first and most significant thing that Adams could do to signal a change in expectation would be to replace Granato with one of a 1/2 dozen available coaches with a history of consistently winning 45+ NHL games a season. But make no mistake that we did not have a playoff roster. We were a team that needed everything to fall right to be seriously in the mix. Last year it did, this year it didn’t. If Adams doesn't address the roster there is little reason to be confident we will be significantly better next year, regardless of who the coach is. Edited April 22 by Archie Lee 2
JohnC Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 9 hours ago, Doohickie said: I was really hoping we be talking about this in the context of Granato not being able to get the team deep into the playoffs. Oh well. To Granato's credit, he was able to take the over the roster from Krueger and install a looser system that allowed our young players to play more freely. It's inarguable that players such as Dahlin and Tage benefited under that less restrictive system. There are different stages in developing a player and building a roster. In the learning process you have to master A, B, C before getting to X, Y, Z. There came a point that the roster under Granato couldn't make the next leap. This team was stuck in a rut and spinning its wheels. It's now time for a change. Granato believed in his learning process. We're beyond that now. We are now in the production stage.
Weave Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 19 minutes ago, Archie Lee said: I agree with your first paragraph. Less so the second. The Sabres are in the midst of a familiar narrative. Granato is perceived as having been soft on the players and the response is we need a coach who is more demanding. Hopefully that coach is successful for a period, but there is a better than even chance that 2-4 years from now we are looking for a coach who, as you say, treats the players like adults. Both styles can be successful. I tend to agree with Granato’s comments in the article. When a coach is fired a narrative forms. The players in their exit interviews, for the most part, stuck with the narrative. With nearly a week of distance between the firing and today, I am more certain than ever that the main culprit for last year’s team falling short is Adams (with a maybe to Pegula, as we may never know if there were spending limits). Yes the power play was bad and the slow starts were killers. These and other things got Granato fired. I’m ok with that. More accomplished coaches have been fired for less. But the Sabres as a playoff contender were a seriously flawed team. Those flaws were going to manifest themselves in some fashion. At best this roster was good for WC2 and a likely 1st rd exit. While that would be better than missing the playoffs, I can’t in good conscience say that I think Granato accomplished less, particularly when you consider last year as well, than Sullivan or Tortorella or Lalonde. I’m fine with the coaching change. I’ve said for several weeks now that the first and most significant thing that Adams could do to signal a change in expectation would be to replace Granato with one of a 1/2 dozen available coaches with a history of consistently winning 45+ NHL games a season. But make no mistake that we did not have a playoff roster. We were a team that needed everything to fall right to be seriously in the mix. Last year it did, this year it didn’t. If Adams doesn't address the roster there is little reason to be confident we will be significantly better next year, regardless of who the coach is. On the day Granato’s firing was announced, I went against the grain at the time and called this year’s failure as KA’s failure. Complicit was the term I used. KA absolutely failed to recognize and address the glaring weakness in roster and leadership. As you state here, this is maybe a borderline playoff roster, even with the right coach. Nevertheless, Donnie had hit his ceiling and it was time to move on. I suspect he’ll be a good head coach in the future if he gets the chance to serve as an assistant under a successful coach. Naive seems an apt description, and one that is readily shed with exposure. 3
Curt Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: I'm saying Sullivan has worked with a locker room filled with seasoned veterans and at least one of the best leaders in the league. How he'd function in a room like we have is unknown. Bylsma had ROR when he was still loving it. Sullivan seems like a bit more of a “players coach” kind of guy. That worked for the Pens because they had leadership in the player group with strong internal accountability, so Sullivan didn’t need to be a hardass. I think the Sabres need a coach who will be a hardass. 1
WhenWillItEnd66 Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 2 hours ago, Curt said: Sullivan seems like a bit more of a “players coach” kind of guy. That worked for the Pens because they had leadership in the player group with strong internal accountability, so Sullivan didn’t need to be a hardass. I think the Sabres need a coach who will be a hardass. All a moot point as he is not going anywhere.
Thorner Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, Weave said: On the day Granato’s firing was announced, I went against the grain at the time and called this year’s failure as KA’s failure. Complicit was the term I used. KA absolutely failed to recognize and address the glaring weakness in roster and leadership. As you state here, this is maybe a borderline playoff roster, even with the right coach. Nevertheless, Donnie had hit his ceiling and it was time to move on. I suspect he’ll be a good head coach in the future if he gets the chance to serve as an assistant under a successful coach. Naive seems an apt description, and one that is readily shed with exposure. I sure hope calling it Adams’ failure isn’t too much against the grain. He’s more culpable than Granato. Players, coaches…buck stops at GM Edited April 22 by Thorny
nfreeman Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 Well, with a week going by since DG's termination, I'm inclined to think that KA's first choice isn't one of the guys who is currently available (i.e. Lindy, Gallant, Berube) -- although it's certainly possible that KA called one or more of them and got turned down. Still, it seems more likely that his first choice is someone who is currently coaching in the playoffs, and he needs to wait for that guy's team to get bounced. It would sure be nice if someone in WNY sports media had some info for us. 1
Flashsabre Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, with a week going by since DG's termination, I'm inclined to think that KA's first choice isn't one of the guys who is currently available (i.e. Lindy, Gallant, Berube) -- although it's certainly possible that KA called one or more of them and got turned down. Still, it seems more likely that his first choice is someone who is currently coaching in the playoffs, and he needs to wait for that guy's team to get bounced. It would sure be nice if someone in WNY sports media had some info for us. Maybe there is a chance with Brindamour. Maybe he wants to see if Quenneville gets reinstated. Maybe some of the coaches are waiting to see if some playoff teams get punted first round (Leafs) and a job opens up. We have heard nothing about Ottawa, NJ or St Louis either though.
Pimlach Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 14 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, with a week going by since DG's termination, I'm inclined to think that KA's first choice isn't one of the guys who is currently available (i.e. Lindy, Gallant, Berube) -- although it's certainly possible that KA called one or more of them and got turned down. Still, it seems more likely that his first choice is someone who is currently coaching in the playoffs, and he needs to wait for that guy's team to get bounced. It would sure be nice if someone in WNY sports media had some info for us. Still too early to make that determination.
French Collection Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 I agree with the need for a tougher coach. The players are towing the company line about accountability but they enjoyed DG’s country club atmosphere. Keep in mind that coaches are almost all hired and fired within a few years. The hardass will wear on guys and be gone and many will be wanting a player’s coach. Many teams alternate between the two types.
MISabresFan Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 Of the playoff teams, assistant coaches with HC experience ; Travis Green, Guy Boucher, Jeff Blashill, John MacClean, John Stevens, Scott Arniel, and Glenn Gulutzan. I might have missed one but Adams could be waiting to talk to someone in that position currently. There are also several coaches with history to the Sabers and Amerks.
PerreaultForever Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 7 hours ago, Brawndo said: The Sabres would have a pretty good idea of what he would bring to the table. He has a relationship with Jason Karmanos, Sam Ventura and Mike Bales was on His Staff. In the unlikely event the Penguins let him go he should get consideration for the Sabres HC Position I always forget how much love and worship Karmanos and Ventura get around here. I've never shared that admiration. Well aware that I am in the minority.
That Aud Smell Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Pimlach said: Still too early to make that determination. Possibly - but I had the same thought this morning. Not a peep about guys who are available. It seems consistent with Adams' needing to wait for a team to be eliminated from the playoffs. There was something he said in his press conference -- he used a word like "sooner" or "earlier" to indicate that he had a plan and that the timing could be accelerated if certain things were to happen.
PerreaultForever Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 6 hours ago, Curt said: Sullivan seems like a bit more of a “players coach” kind of guy. That worked for the Pens because they had leadership in the player group with strong internal accountability, so Sullivan didn’t need to be a hardass. I think the Sabres need a coach who will be a hardass. That's my thought on Sullivan as well. You can thrive with a players coach in a strong culture like that. Not sure how he'd do in this environment so I'd prefer the hard ass as well. One must also remember that so called hard ass coaches are not hard ass all the time. The good ones take it up and down as appropriate and they reward effort as well. There are many examples of guys who played with hard ***** and have nothing but nice things to say about them. 1
Pimlach Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 Just now, PerreaultForever said: That's my thought on Sullivan as well. You can thrive with a players coach in a strong culture like that. Not sure how he'd do in this environment so I'd prefer the hard ass as well. One must also remember that so called hard ass coaches are not hard ass all the time. The good ones take it up and down as appropriate and they reward effort as well. There are many examples of guys who played with hard ***** and have nothing but nice things to say about them. Gallant is known as a hard ass and as a players coach. 1
PerreaultForever Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Pimlach said: Gallant is known as a hard ass and as a players coach. True. I think I remember when the Rags fired him there was talk that management felt he was too much of a players coach and Laviolette, despite his exterior demeanor, was considered more of a demanding hard ass. Tuch played for him and had good things to say about him in his exit interview so that had value for me.
Flashsabre Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 54 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: True. I think I remember when the Rags fired him there was talk that management felt he was too much of a players coach and Laviolette, despite his exterior demeanor, was considered more of a demanding hard ass. Tuch played for him and had good things to say about him in his exit interview so that had value for me. It was said that in exit interviews the players expressed they wanted a coach with more structure then Gallant.
Weave Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 4 hours ago, nfreeman said: Well, with a week going by since DG's termination, I'm inclined to think that KA's first choice isn't one of the guys who is currently available (i.e. Lindy, Gallant, Berube) -- although it's certainly possible that KA called one or more of them and got turned down. Still, it seems more likely that his first choice is someone who is currently coaching in the playoffs, and he needs to wait for that guy's team to get bounced. It would sure be nice if someone in WNY sports media had some info for us. Good call, Nostradamus. 😂 1 1
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