Players that should NOT be on this team next year

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Excellent post.   I think Dahlin is as complete a package, one more so, than many of the usual Norris contenders.  

I agree. Dahlin is a top 5 defender in the league that we don't appreciate enough. He can do things that only 2-3 other guys in the league can do. He also has greatly increased his defensive skill over the years and if you watch him live in particular, he does a ton of little things to shut plays down before anything exciting happens. Rasmus Dahlin deserves a better team. His teammates owe him more than they gave this season. For all the talk around here of Tuch being captain, Dahlin is the leader IMO. Guy has 20 less assists than last year because his team can't score for *****. Still leads the team in points and is 5th in goals, as a defender. Rasmus Dahlin is probably the best defender to ever wear blue and gold. 

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I agree. Dahlin is a top 5 defender in the league that we don't appreciate enough. He can do things that only 2-3 other guys in the league can do. He also has greatly increased his defensive skill over the years and if you watch him live in particular, he does a ton of little things to shut plays down before anything exciting happens. Rasmus Dahlin deserves a better team. His teammates owe him more than they gave this season. For all the talk around here of Tuch being captain, Dahlin is the leader IMO. Guy has 20 less assists than last year because his team can't score for *****. Still leads the team in points and is 5th in goals, as a defender. Rasmus Dahlin is probably the best defender to ever wear blue and gold. 

I was told by someone highly credible and formerly in the Sabres hockey operations that Tuch is a great teammate and a positive all around, but just not the captain type in the locker room. 
 

Dahlin is the leader.  He can win a Norris if the voters ever decide to go back to looking at more than points. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I agree. Dahlin is a top 5 defender in the league that we don't appreciate enough. He can do things that only 2-3 other guys in the league can do. He also has greatly increased his defensive skill over the years and if you watch him live in particular, he does a ton of little things to shut plays down before anything exciting happens. Rasmus Dahlin deserves a better team. His teammates owe him more than they gave this season. For all the talk around here of Tuch being captain, Dahlin is the leader IMO. Guy has 20 less assists than last year because his team can't score for *****. Still leads the team in points and is 5th in goals, as a defender. Rasmus Dahlin is probably the best defender to ever wear blue and gold. 

Thank you, particularly for the bold.

From reading this place I sometimes think people judge defence on

• Is he mugging a guy when the puck goes to our netfront?
• How many bad passes did he make (only the bad ones matter)?
• Is he on the screen when a goal gets scored?

I wish people would also pay attention to the amount of rushes or defensive zone attacks broken up or deflected into corners, the amount of pucks routinely knocked off, or prevented from getting to, sticks, the number of contested pucks won, and how often a player executes safe exits.

Routinely good defence rarely makes highlight packages because it usually means nothing exciting happened.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Excellent post.   I think Dahlin is as complete a package, one more so, than many of the usual Norris contenders.  

I think Dahlin is one of the best D-men in the league right now. There are a few things holding him back from getting the attention across the league and from Buffalo fans also.

1.  The team isn't good and not in the playoffs. He won't get the coverage that players on top teams in the playoffs get.

2.  As per the previous discussions, he isn't putting up the point totals. Not because he is not as good as the guys that do, but the forwards on this team are just schooting/scoring a lot less than the guys on the other top guys teams. As said, If Tuch, Thompson, Cozens, etc, converted chances at the same rate as other teams, or EVEN at the same rate as they did last year, Dahlin would be up near the top in points as he would have a lot more assists.

3.  There are more times Dahlin LOOKS like he is making mistakes in his own zone...simply becaue for much of the year he was playing behind possibly the worst group of forwards in the league in their own end.  The Sabres have gotten better the last few months in this way, and guess what? Dahlin looks better in his own zone.  He might be BETTER than the other guys in Norris consideration with D-zone play, but he is going to look worse with how often he is in a bad position in his own end.

Is Dahlin the perfect defensive player? No.  Is he on track to be the best D-man ever? probably not.  But I honestly think he is, when considering ALL parts of his game (offensive zone, defensive zone, physical play, shooting/scoring) right near the top of the league.

Edited April 4 by mjd1001

[Stoner]

How about everyone instead of cherry picking the worst bums from the lot of bums?

I would kill for a brand new expansion roster with good management and coaching and ownership and a roof that doesn't leak and a footlong hot dog and...

[sabrefanday1]

Boone Jenner sure would look good in a Sabre jersey...

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

How about everyone instead of cherry picking the worst bums from the lot of bums?

I would kill for a brand new expansion roster with good management and coaching and ownership and a roof that doesn't leak and a footlong hot dog and...

Interesting.  I responded to your post from the perspective of roster construction only. But you’ve said more here for me to think about.  

[Spoonman]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:22 PM, Pimlach said:

Of course they will become available, there is no competition for them.  Given everything Adams has said and done we could be younger next year.  

Dahlin is overplayed. 

Tage and Cozens have struggled this year and that has to change next season is this team is going anywhere.  

I can always count on you coach @Pimlach. Injecting some logic into the conversation. 

[mjd1001]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:22 PM, Pimlach said:

 

Dahlin is overplayed. 

Tage and Cozens have struggled this year and that has to change next season is this team is going anywhere.  

I agree with you, I have said since the beginning of last year they need to cut down his ice time a bit, even if they think he can handle it.  The good news?  Since they traded for Byram, Dahlin's ice time is down quite a bit....

Before Byram got here, he averaged 25:50 per game. In the month since Byram got here, Dahlin is down to 24:09. A drop of more than a minute and a half per game is a LOT.

And that is with him still getting about 1.5 minutes per game on the PK.  Next year if/when Samuelsson gets back and takes those minutes, Dahlin should be off the PK and get even more time off...so...I'm hopeful.

[Pimlach]

54 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

I can always count on you coach @Pimlach. Injecting some logic into the conversation. 

Hello Spooner.   Good to see you back. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

How about everyone instead of cherry picking the worst bums from the lot of bums?

I would kill for a brand new expansion roster with good management and coaching and ownership and a roof that doesn't leak and a footlong hot dog and...

Skip Krake, Ron Anderson and Allen Hamilton are ready for old school expansion team duty.   Maybe they can convince Doug Barrie too?

[Jorcus]

21 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I think Dahlin is one of the best D-men in the league right now. There are a few things holding him back from getting the attention across the league and from Buffalo fans also.

1.  The team isn't good and not in the playoffs. He won't get the coverage that players on top teams in the playoffs get.

2.  As per the previous discussions, he isn't putting up the point totals. Not because he is not as good as the guys that do, but the forwards on this team are just schooting/scoring a lot less than the guys on the other top guys teams. As said, If Tuch, Thompson, Cozens, etc, converted chances at the same rate as other teams, or EVEN at the same rate as they did last year, Dahlin would be up near the top in points as he would have a lot more assists.

3.  There are more times Dahlin LOOKS like he is making mistakes in his own zone...simply becaue for much of the year he was playing behind possibly the worst group of forwards in the league in their own end.  The Sabres have gotten better the last few months in this way, and guess what? Dahlin looks better in his own zone.  He might be BETTER than the other guys in Norris consideration with D-zone play, but he is going to look worse with how often he is in a bad position in his own end.

Is Dahlin the perfect defensive player? No.  Is he on track to be the best D-man ever? probably not.  But I honestly think he is, when considering ALL parts of his game (offensive zone, defensive zone, physical play, shooting/scoring) right near the top of the league.

Observationally there are some things about Dahlin's game that I wish he would clean up. At times he seems to want to play a one on one game where he will wait for an attacker to come to him and then try to stick handle out of it. Sure he wins a lot of the battles but if does not the others are out of position because they staying open for a pass and not in a defensive position to help. Sabres are blessed with a number of mobile D players that can carry the puck out of the zone. Dahlin does not have to do that all on his own. He will also wait at times for the one on one fight at the blue line. If he loses it's a breakaway and Dahlin does not always chase that player back down the ice which really sucks to watch. Look I know you got beat but at least you can take away a second chance rebound if you chase it down. 

Another thing is getting caught too long behind the opponents goal line on when on the attack. If you get pinned or dumped behind the goal you leave people like Skinner, Krebs, Benson, and so on to cover the blue line. You have to get in make your play and rotate back out faster. Power is guilty of this move as well. Dahlin can fight his way out of it better but it still can be a problem. 

I don't know what to think of his power play moves. The power play is such a mess it's not just one thing. I know this much if Dahlin plays catch long enough sooner or later there is a fumble and 30 seconds are wasted without a shot on goal. I liked when they put Byram on the power play because I thought it would free up Dahlin to use his feet more to drive the net or break the D down. Leaving a responsible D man at the line who can shoot would seem to be an answer but they axed that after a few games. 

When Dahlin is skating shooting there are few that match his skills. It's just decision making that holds him back at times. 

[mjd1001]

13 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

Observationally there are some things about Dahlin's game that I wish he would clean up. At times he seems to want to play a one on one game where he will wait for an attacker to come to him and then try to stick handle out of it. Sure he wins a lot of the battles but if does not the others are out of position because they staying open for a pass and not in a defensive position to help. Sabres are blessed with a number of mobile D players that can carry the puck out of the zone. Dahlin does not have to do that all on his own. He will also wait at times for the one on one fight at the blue line. If he loses it's a breakaway and Dahlin does not always chase that player back down the ice which really sucks to watch. Look I know you got beat but at least you can take away a second chance rebound if you chase it down. 

Another thing is getting caught too long behind the opponents goal line on when on the attack. If you get pinned or dumped behind the goal you leave people like Skinner, Krebs, Benson, and so on to cover the blue line. You have to get in make your play and rotate back out faster. Power is guilty of this move as well. Dahlin can fight his way out of it better but it still can be a problem. 

I don't know what to think of his power play moves. The power play is such a mess it's not just one thing. I know this much if Dahlin plays catch long enough sooner or later there is a fumble and 30 seconds are wasted without a shot on goal. I liked when they put Byram on the power play because I thought it would free up Dahlin to use his feet more to drive the net or break the D down. Leaving a responsible D man at the line who can shoot would seem to be an answer but they axed that after a few games. 

When Dahlin is skating shooting there are few that match his skills. It's just decision making that holds him back at times. 

I think I look at him more positively because I think his positives outweigh his negatives, and I think many of his negatives are a result of those around him.  However, I can see and understand some of your points.  "Clean up" is a good word, as I think he is capable of doing those things.

We have to remember, Dahlin is still so young and inexperienced. When you look at D-men that are 2-way guys (known for both their offensive play as well as their defensive/physical play), You look at Hedman (33 years old,  1207 career games), Josh Morrissey (29 years old, 614 games) Adam Fox (26 years old, 381 games), Roman Josi (33 years old, 988 games), Charlie McAvoy(26 years old, 530 games played). Dahlin is still only 23 years old, has 430 games but none of those are playoff games and most of them were with a losing team. He still is young and learning, D-men take a while to fully develop so I'm still very hopeful with him.  When you look at all of those guys I listed none of them (not even Hedman) were considered as good as they are when they were 23 years old.

  

[Rasmus_]

Skinner, Krebs, Jokiharju, Bryson and Samuelsson.  That's my list.  The UFAs aren't needed to be listed. Of them I'd only consider Girgensons.

 

[thewookie1]

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/5025378
 

rather realistic offseason

If Muel is unable to stay healthy I’d look to deal him.

Byram gets a defensive Dman partner which should decide if we want him around long term or not

Bryson can continue his role as a solid 7D

Girgs is back because of it’s inevitably

Get some draft picks for Jokiharju

Acquire Gourde with 2.1mil retention; only 1 year left and gives us some solid experience, defensive competence, and some skill.

Sign DeMelo for a strong defensive presence on the back end

Sign Martinhook to give a solid defensively responsible winger to go with Gourde and hopefully Skinner’s defensive woes can be covered up there.

Sign a vet extra forward for 1x1mil

[Goldseatsaud]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, Pimlach said:

Skip Krake, Ron Anderson and Allen Hamilton are ready for old school expansion team duty.   Maybe they can convince Doug Barrie too?

Larry Hillman, Tracey Pratt and Butch Deadmarsh too

[Wyldnwoody44]

[Crusader1969]

On 4/5/2024 at 4:52 PM, Rasmus_ said:

Skinner, Krebs, Jokiharju, Bryson and Samuelsson.  That's my list.  The UFAs aren't needed to be listed. Of them I'd only consider Girgensons.

 

Agree with all but Samuelsson. 
Skinner and Jokiharju are definitely at the top of my list 

[Rasmus_]

22 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Agree with all but Samuelsson. 
Skinner and Jokiharju are definitely at the top of my list 

I just see the health issues, and the left side has so much quality.  Dahlin, Power, Byram, Johnson.