GDT/ Buffalo Sabres @ Vancouver Canucks Tuesday 10pm 3/19, ESPN+ MSG & WGR Radio

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

I agree with the macro view of Skinner. But I watched most of the first two periods last night and I thought he was actually pretty hard on the puck last night. He made a few bonehead passes, and did lose some puck battles, but he was forechecking (fore-pestering?) pretty hard and I actually noticed him zipping around in the D-zone at least trying to cover players and/or areas.

Maybe I was drunk or delirious from lack of sleep and by no means does this mean he is getting a selke - but I think if he played that way consistently, we could leave him alone until we buy him out?

I personally think he lacks a work ethic and it rubs off on the rest of the locker room. We need some hard "subtractions" like Philly did to start their rebuild. 

Skinner is simply too inconsistent and he plays like an individual. He is, as has been said in the past, uncoachable. He will quit on a play at any time, he will be out of position at any moment, and most of all he will giveaway the puck at the worst moments. I have said it before and I hold to it. We will not win until Skinner is gone. 

[ska-T Chitown]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I personally think he lacks a work ethic and it rubs off on the rest of the locker room. We need some hard "subtractions" like Philly did to start their rebuild. 

Skinner is simply too inconsistent and he plays like an individual. He is, as has been said in the past, uncoachable. He will quit on a play at any time, he will be out of position at any moment, and most of all he will giveaway the puck at the worst moments. I have said it before and I hold to it. We will not win until Skinner is gone. 

I don't disagree with your argument much.

I am probably falling victim to home town and recency (any wordies out there know why "recency" is not a word?) bias, but I was saying *IF* somehow he played like he did last night for a majority of games, he would no longer be in the liability category that he generally seems to reside in.

[tom webster]

28 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I personally think he lacks a work ethic and it rubs off on the rest of the locker room. We need some hard "subtractions" like Philly did to start their rebuild. 

Skinner is simply too inconsistent and he plays like an individual. He is, as has been said in the past, uncoachable. He will quit on a play at any time, he will be out of position at any moment, and most of all he will giveaway the puck at the worst moments. I have said it before and I hold to it. We will not win until Skinner is gone. 

Yes, like Alexander Mogilny, Dave Andreychuck and Jack Eichel would never win the Cup. 

[PerreaultForever]

23 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

I don't disagree with your argument much.

I am probably falling victim to home town and recency (any wordies out there know why "recency" is not a word?) bias, but I was saying *IF* somehow he played like he did last night for a majority of games, he would no longer be in the liability category that he generally seems to reside in.

"if" is an optimistic word but it's also an unlikely result. I've moved way past "if" and although it pains me to say it, on Skinner, Kreuger was right. 

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Yes, like Alexander Mogilny, Dave Andreychuck and Jack Eichel would never win the Cup. 

and Skinner has never even been in the playoffs. Let's ask Brind'Amour.

[gomper]

As an aside to last night, my friend had Schoop on. He said he only watched half the game and then went on to analyze the game. Unbelievable that it happened and he admitted it. Idk about you, but at my job, if I said I only did half my work, I'd be gone.

[msw2112]

17 hours ago, John Tucker said:

Interesting PP strategy by the Nucks.  Five guys constantly moving, one always in front of the net, and shooting the when given the opportunity.  Weird

Never seen such a thing

[tom webster]

27 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

"if" is an optimistic word but it's also an unlikely result. I've moved way past "if" and although it pains me to say it, on Skinner, Kreuger was right. 

and Skinner has never even been in the playoffs. Let's ask Brind'Amour.

One player is not the reason why, or why not, a team makes the playoffs. 

[OverPowerYou]

1 hour ago, gomper said:

As an aside to last night, my friend had Schoop on. He said he only watched half the game and then went on to analyze the game. Unbelievable that it happened and he admitted it. Idk about you, but at my job, if I said I only did half my work, I'd be gone.

Schopp and bulldog are just two grumpy old men talking abysmal Sabres hockey. That’s the last thing I need right now 

[Getpucksdeep]

3 hours ago, LETSTUCHINGO said:

How does 26 not play smart and disciplined? How has he not bought in? He plays a strong, physical game consistently taking players off the puck. He checks and plays physical along the boards night in and night out! He is supremely talented offensively as his stats show. Does he make mistakes? Yep. Does he press at time trying to do too much. Yep, but who wouldn't given all the losing he has endured. Has this season been frustrating, ABSOLUTELY! It has nothing to do with Dahlin playing smart, not disciplined or him not buying in. It's ridiculous that even needs to be stated!  He should be our next captain and if everyone played like him night in and night out, we wouldn't be missing the playoffs again this year.

I respect this point of view and enthusiasm. 

During the middle of winter as our playoff chances died Dahlin to his credit ate a ton of ice time, however he was also like a -15 or something (while Quinn was a +20 and leading his team to the playoffs).  The difference was not talent, skill, and try-hard, it was decisions he made with the puck on his stick.  I know it's not one guy it's the team, so blaming the +/- and losses solely on him is not fair. But for a guy being paid (next year) basically as the highest paid defensemen in the league, it's just not acceptable.  He needs to tip the ice in our favor every single shift, and not make mistakes that cost us goals that are then erased by his solid offensive stats.

I agree that he will be the next captain, but for me (and I don't know who else to pick tbh) I wish there was another option.  Someone like Crosby or Drury who ooozes a "***** around find out" presence to both his teammates and the opponent.  They demand excellence of themselves and the people they are leading.  Does Dahlin give that vibe? Or is he just another super skilled hard working player that really really wants to win?

[Buffalonill]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Dahlin is still growing/learning/getting better. BUT, I think his play gets better and he gets more recoginition if/when he is on a team that is doing a lot better.  If the Sabres were to be a 100+ point team next year and fighting for a division title, he may very well get attention as one of the best in the league.

He's been in the league for 6 years and all I hear is " Learning " "Developing" 

And yet you all want him to be captain ? 

That just has disaster written all over it " Too much pressure" " Losing focus" 

Let's someone else take on the pressure then 

[ska-T Chitown]

35 minutes ago, Getpucksdeep said:

I respect this point of view and enthusiasm. 

During the middle of winter as our playoff chances died Dahlin to his credit ate a ton of ice time, however he was also like a -15 or something (while Quinn was a +20 and leading his team to the playoffs).  The difference was not talent, skill, and try-hard, it was decisions he made with the puck on his stick.  I know it's not one guy it's the team, so blaming the +/- and losses solely on him is not fair. But for a guy being paid (next year) basically as the highest paid defensemen in the league, it's just not acceptable.  He needs to tip the ice in our favor every single shift, and not make mistakes that cost us goals that are then erased by his solid offensive stats.

I agree that he will be the next captain, but for me (and I don't know who else to pick tbh) I wish there was another option.  Someone like Crosby or Drury who ooozes a "***** around find out" presence to both his teammates and the opponent.  They demand excellence of themselves and the people they are leading.  Does Dahlin give that vibe? Or is he just another super skilled hard working player that really really wants to win?

 

22 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

He's been in the league for 6 years and all I hear is " Learning " "Developing" 

And yet you all want him to be captain ? 

That just has disaster written all over it " Too much pressure" " Losing focus" 

Let's someone else take on the pressure then 

I can't necessarily say that any of that is wrong, but I disagree with the general sentiment(s) for two reasons.

First, regardless of how long he has been in the league, he will barely be 24 by the time this regular season wraps up. Given the disarray he is generally surrounded with, I still find Dahlin to be better defensively than most other D-man that perform at his offensive level. Quinn Hughes is listed at 5'10" and 180 lbs. Every last member of the "dirt and grit" brigade here would be all over him every time he got pushed off the puck. Last night, mega hit on Olaf not withstanding, I saw him get bumped off of plenty of pucks in his own zone. (yeah, I know I sorta mixed up two parts of the thread, but I like that point so I am gonna leave it)

Second, we have no idea what Dahlin is like in practice, in the locker room, or outside the rink. There are many different types of leaders, even in sports. Maybe players that lazily drop the puck back on that stupid PP puck drop play give Dahls a wide berth in the locker room after games as he sits and seethes and stares them down with his icy blue Nordic eyes. We don't know. Maybe he is the guy in practice who yells "AGAIN!" when the drill does not go right. Or he quietly skates back to the starting point, motions the offender over and says "now do it right". Unless someone has been sitting in practice watching - my hypothesis is just as good as any other.

The Dahlin won't be a good enough captain debate is just PTSD from this team being so under-achieving for so long. Sure, Sid is a top 20 (or higher) all-time player, eats the broken dreams of his opponents, drinks thawed rink ice, and shits pucks ... but there was so much talent and cohesion on those SC champ teams, the equipment manager probably could have been the captain. The captain does not need to be perfect if the team is well constructed.

[HOUSE]

[Claude Balls]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

If true then this is a sad bunch.  But I doubt this is true.  

 

They are a sad bunch either way. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, tom webster said:

One player is not the reason why, or why not, a team makes the playoffs. 

Of course not, but then again, it doesn't take much to tip a scale one way or the other. 

The locker room argument is long and won't get us anywhere so no point to that (I'm sure we disagree) but you could simplify it by wondering how many points/games can any one player cost you and maybe that's enough. 

[Pimlach]

7 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

 

I can't necessarily say that any of that is wrong, but I disagree with the general sentiment(s) for two reasons.

First, regardless of how long he has been in the league, he will barely be 24 by the time this regular season wraps up. Given the disarray he is generally surrounded with, I still find Dahlin to be better defensively than most other D-man that perform at his offensive level. Quinn Hughes is listed at 5'10" and 180 lbs. Every last member of the "dirt and grit" brigade here would be all over him every time he got pushed off the puck. Last night, mega hit on Olaf not withstanding, I saw him get bumped off of plenty of pucks in his own zone. (yeah, I know I sorta mixed up two parts of the thread, but I like that point so I am gonna leave it)

Second, we have no idea what Dahlin is like in practice, in the locker room, or outside the rink. There are many different types of leaders, even in sports. Maybe players that lazily drop the puck back on that stupid PP puck drop play give Dahls a wide berth in the locker room after games as he sits and seethes and stares them down with his icy blue Nordic eyes. We don't know. Maybe he is the guy in practice who yells "AGAIN!" when the drill does not go right. Or he quietly skates back to the starting point, motions the offender over and says "now do it right". Unless someone has been sitting in practice watching - my hypothesis is just as good as any other.

The Dahlin won't be a good enough captain debate is just PTSD from this team being so under-achieving for so long. Sure, Sid is a top 20 (or higher) all-time player, eats the broken dreams of his opponents, drinks thawed rink ice, and shits pucks ... but there was so much talent and cohesion on those SC champ teams, the equipment manager probably could have been the captain. The captain does not need to be perfect if the team is well constructed.

[Thorner]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:56 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not sure where you came up with that number, but Washington is the bottom wild card right now (by points %) and they are on pace for 92 points.  We need 93 points and with 71 currently and 24 games to go, our max points is 95 if we win at 12 games.  Lose one more and max goes down to 93.

WC2 pace is 90 now after another Caps loss

We’d have a shot if we go something like 9-2-1

Edited March 21 by Thorny

[tom webster]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Of course not, but then again, it doesn't take much to tip a scale one way or the other. 

The locker room argument is long and won't get us anywhere so no point to that (I'm sure we disagree) but you could simplify it by wondering how many points/games can any one player cost you and maybe that's enough. 

I saw a study once pointing out how goal scorers even with the worse defensive metrics still positively effected their team’s outcome by the virtue of how hard it is  to score in the NHL. Maybe if I’m bored one day I’ll find it.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, tom webster said:

I saw a study once pointing out how goal scorers even with the worse defensive metrics still positively effected their team’s outcome by the virtue of how hard it is  to score in the NHL. Maybe if I’m bored one day I’ll find it.

Well the results around Skinner's career say otherwise. Perhaps we'd surge to the top tier just like Carolina did. 

[tom webster]

44 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well the results around Skinner's career say otherwise. Perhaps we'd surge to the top tier just like Carolina did. 

Again, that’s nonsense. Blaming Skinner for all the woes of the teams he’s been on is beneath you. You obviously are a lot smarter then someone that would leap to this conclusion but if that’s how you want to end the discussion fine.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

Again, that’s nonsense. Blaming Skinner for all the woes of the teams he’s been on is beneath you. You obviously are a lot smarter then someone that would leap to this conclusion but if that’s how you want to end the discussion fine.

You are trying to use a point I made and paint it into a much wider stroke. I never said Skinner was "all the woes" that's silly. He is, however, an impediment to progress.

This team would be better without him than it is with him. That line can end it if you like. I'm good with that one.