Sabres Trade Erik Johnson to Philadelphia for a 2024 4th Round Pick

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

At the end of the day, talent wins out.  It may take a little longer, but we have far more talent coming thru the pipeline than they do.  

Like the Bills in the mid 80s to late 80s...eventually all those HOF players they drafted just realized..."we are simply better than these other teams and we are going to kick your ass", and then they did. Sabres may not have any HOF players but they likely have a lot of really good ones.  Only a matter of time before they are simply better most nights than the teams they are playing.

 

I disagree on two levels. First, we may or may not have more talent coming. Despite having the rapey goalie problem they too have a promising young goalie in Errson. They have big solid young D. Not the flashy offensive kind we have, but big defenders. There is a veteran core, and then there's Michkov. If he comes and is what he might be, when you add that to the foundation they are building they will be a top competitor. 

The second thing is I don't think that in the end "talent wins out". Yes, of course you need some talent, but team systems, coaching, roster dynamics, the whole package matters and that includes gritty bottom end guys as well as talented ones. If talent wins out we'd see the Leafs in the cup by now wouldn't we. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

That's the hope. The problem is if that some of the talent demands trades (or is moved for contractual purposes) before that realization kicks in at the critical mass. 

Yes.  Some demand to leave because they loose faith, such as Eichel, Reinhart, Montour, Ulmark, ... 

Or the Sabres might just run of out cap space as the also seem to always plan for the next prospect(s) to bloom.  So Mitts gets just as he starts his prime to save dollars for the promise of Quinn/Peterka/Benson et al .... 

Byram will be looking to get paid after next year.  

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree on two levels. First, we may or may not have more talent coming. Despite having the rapey goalie problem they too have a promising young goalie in Errson. They have big solid young D. Not the flashy offensive kind we have, but big defenders. There is a veteran core, and then there's Michkov. If he comes and is what he might be, when you add that to the foundation they are building they will be a top competitor. 

The second thing is I don't think that in the end "talent wins out". Yes, of course you need some talent, but team systems, coaching, roster dynamics, the whole package matters and that includes gritty bottom end guys as well as talented ones. If talent wins out we'd see the Leafs in the cup by now wouldn't we. 

Who are they? When were they drafted? How do they compare to Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round Defense additions. 

I asked because the Flyers have drafted 2 1st round defender since 2016. Cam York 6' 194lbs and Oliver Bonk 6'2" 176lbs

I like Sotheran and Attard but I don't see many other defenders in their pool that are interesting. Ginning and Attard are the only ones on the current roster who are young and "big". So again, who are their 1. Big, 2. Solid. and 3. Young defenders? 

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Who are they? When were they drafted? How do they compare to Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round Defense additions. 

I asked because the Flyers have drafted 2 1st round defender since 2016. Cam York 6' 194lbs and Oliver Bonk 6'2" 176lbs

I like Sotheran and Attard but I don't see many other defenders in their pool that are interesting. Ginning and Attard are the only ones on the current roster who are young and "big". So again, who are their 1. Big, 2. Solid. and 3. Young defenders? 

Zamula is 6'3" and just coming into his own. Sanheim is 27 but locked up long term and he is solid. Maybe that's not "young" but he's in his prime. York has also become a top defender. Bonk is still developing. The others you already mentioned are all looking promising. How many do you want, they only need 6 starters. 

Who do you mean by Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd rounders? RJ is the only guy I see pushing for an NHL spot. 

With the addition of Byram you can argue the Buffalo defense is better. It's certainly more talented, but I'm not sure it's better as a unit defending. 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Zamula is 6'3" and just coming into his own. Sanheim is 27 but locked up long term and he is solid. Maybe that's not "young" but he's in his prime. York has also become a top defender. Bonk is still developing. The others you already mentioned are all looking promising. How many do you want, they only need 6 starters. 

Who do you mean by Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd rounders? RJ is the only guy I see pushing for an NHL spot. 

With the addition of Byram you can argue the Buffalo defense is better. It's certainly more talented, but I'm not sure it's better as a unit defending. 

You made a claim that their d was young and big and solid compared to Buffalo. So we should compare the young def and see if they're solid and big. 

You specifically mentioned big twice. Yet, Buffalo is very comparable in terms of size while being younger. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You made a claim that their d was young and big and solid compared to Buffalo. So we should compare the young def and see if they're solid and big. 

You specifically mentioned big twice. Yet, Buffalo is very comparable in terms of size while being younger. 

Go back and read what I said. Nowhere did I say they were bigger or younger. 

The point was in regards to at the end of the day "talent wins out" not in terms of who had more talent. The question is why are they currently in the playoffs and we are not? Their rebuild started later, they have less talent, they should be much worse than us but they are not. They are roughly the same (although different in style) or better so, "talent" is not winning out at the moment. That's the issue. 

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Go back and read what I said. Nowhere did I say they were bigger or younger. 

The point was in regards to at the end of the day "talent wins out" not in terms of who had more talent. The question is why are they currently in the playoffs and we are not? Their rebuild started later, they have less talent, they should be much worse than us but they are not. They are roughly the same (although different in style) or better so, "talent" is not winning out at the moment. That's the issue. 

Excellent, you agree you are comparing their team to ours and specifically singled out the defense as part of that. So, why don't you compare our defense, to theirs?

You used size twice in the op to highlight their defense. Just curious how it compares. 

Edited March 13 by LGR4GM
Spelling

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Excellent, you agree you are comparing their team to ours and specifically singled out the defense as part of that. So, why don't you compare our defense, to theirs?

You used size twice in the op to highlight their defense. Just curious how it compares. 

You really don't read people when you get set on an argument do you? Pointless talking to you. Enjoy your evening. 

[Rasmus_]

On 3/12/2024 at 2:43 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Zamula is 6'3" and just coming into his own. Sanheim is 27 but locked up long term and he is solid. Maybe that's not "young" but he's in his prime. York has also become a top defender. Bonk is still developing. The others you already mentioned are all looking promising. How many do you want, they only need 6 starters. 

Who do you mean by Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd rounders? RJ is the only guy I see pushing for an NHL spot. 

With the addition of Byram you can argue the Buffalo defense is better. It's certainly more talented, but I'm not sure it's better as a unit defending. 

With Byram in the team, once Samuelsson gets healthy, I'd look to move on from him.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Rasmus_ said:

With Byram in the team, once Samuelsson gets healthy, I'd look to move on from him.

This is definitely a possibility. I said earlier I wouldn't be surprised if one of Jokiharju/Samuelsson/Clifton gets traded in the off season. Jokiharju if contract talks are way off but more likely Samuelsson. Philly would love to have him I think. 

[JoeSchmoe]

Anyone know the Sabres record with EJ out of the lineup (either scratched or post-trade)? 

[DarthEbriate]

13 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Anyone know the Sabres record with EJ out of the lineup (either scratched or post-trade)? 

If my math is correct, the Sabres were 22-24-4 in the 50 games he dressed. 

That would make it 9-6-1 without him in the lineup so far. (7-5-1 scratched/injured; 2-1 post-trade)

It's not as nice a W-to-L correlation as Bryson has this season.

Edited March 14 by DarthEbriate

[Porous Five Hole]

Checking in on old friends, EJ has no points and is a -11 in 12 GP since the trade. Woof.  He hung on one year too long. 

[JoeSchmoe]

16 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Checking in on old friends, EJ has no points and is a -11 in 12 GP since the trade. Woof.  He hung on one year too long. 

I still think we're in fight for a playoff spot if Adams actually did the minimum amount of homework and not signed him. 

[Billznut]

4 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I still think we're in fight for a playoff spot if Adams actually did the minimum amount of homework and not signed him. 

Too bad Adams can only manage to find players desperate enough to stay in the league by agreeing to come to Buffalo. Hopefully before next season he actually finds another way to get players here by actually scouring other players contracts and see who doesn’t have Buffalo on their no move list. 

[Porous Five Hole]

53 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I still think we're in fight for a playoff spot if Adams actually did the minimum amount of homework and not signed him. 

Hard to argue! Woof, this team.