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Is the Sabres biggest issue upfront the lack of an elite forward?

GASabresIUFAN

By GASabresIUFAN
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GASabresIUFAN Hall of Famer

GASabresIUFAN

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When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

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Marvin First Liner

Marvin

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I don't think of any of Winnipeg's forwards as elite.  They beat you with balance and overwhelm the bottom of your roster.

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thewookie1 First Liner

thewookie1

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  On 3/8/2024 at 5:59 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

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Thompson when healthy, Cozens could eventually

dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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Posted (edited)

It's their biggest issue this year.

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

Last year Tuch/Thompson/Skinner was one of the best lines in hockey. This year, they're a decent NHL 2nd line.

I've maintained that for the current build to work it needs Power, Dahlin and now Byram to provide elite play-driving from the back end.

But Thompson still has to be a game-breaker up front — not necessarily elite, but 40-goal dangerous.

EDIT: when the ***** will I remember it's Byram, not Byrum.

 

Edited by dudacek
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Thorner Hall of Famer

Thorner

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Could be.

Can you be a cup contender with 2 2Cs, if you have 2 elite defenders? Was Nashville a cup contender for a couple years (actually asking)? I think this is possible 

i certainly know we can be a solid playoff team in that scenario. We have the top 6 c depth to be a playoff team 

  On 3/8/2024 at 6:16 PM, dudacek said:

It's their biggest issue this year.

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

Last year Tuch/Thompson/Skinner was one of the best lines in hockey. This year, they're a decent NHL 2nd line.

I've maintained that for the current build to work it needs Power, Dahlin and now Byrum to provide elite play-driving from the back end.

But Thompson still has to be a game-breaker up front — not necessarily elite, but 40-goal dangerous.

Expand  

Quinn can be mark Stone, and we trade for Eichel 

Marvin First Liner

Marvin

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  On 3/8/2024 at 6:19 PM, Thorny said:

Could be.

Can you be a cup contender with 2 2Cs, if you have 2 elite defenders? Was Nashville a cup contender for a couple years (actually asking)? I think this is possible 

i certainly know we can be a solid playoff team in that scenario. We have the top 6 c depth to be a playoff team 

Quinn can be mark Stone, and we trade for Eichel 

Expand  

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

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Thorner Hall of Famer

Thorner

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I think there’s probably a better chance of finding success with 2 legit, top level “2Cs” (low-level 1Cs) than we do of Thompson establishing consistently as an elite C. 

Thankfully their contracts appear to allow for that reality 

  On 3/8/2024 at 6:24 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

Why is Tage not considered elite? Because he’s been hurt all year?

The guy scored 47 last year which was sixth highest in the league. 

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Because as of now it’s that one year that’s the outlier re: elite or no, not this season 

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Thorner Hall of Famer

Thorner

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  On 3/8/2024 at 6:25 PM, Marvin said:

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

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So the (risky) but logically sound play was to assume our ability to find another 2C much more attainable than a first pair D (which they obv believe Byram to be)

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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  On 3/8/2024 at 6:25 PM, Marvin said:

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

Expand  

It's what I would have done and thought was the plan looking at all the very talented, but probably not elite pieces we had up front.

The reason I'm not dismissing the trade is because, in theory, having three 1st-pairing defencemen is also path that could work.

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Thorner Hall of Famer

Thorner

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/8/2024 at 6:35 PM, dudacek said:

It's what I would have done and thought was the plan looking at all the very talented, but probably not elite pieces we had up front.

The reason I'm not dismissing the trade is because, in theory, having three 1st-pairing defencemen is also path that could work.

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Make your strength REALLY a strength. Establish an identity, perhaps?

im definitely trying to look at our forwards through the prism of how good they’d need to be while being qb’D by an elite D unit

im not saying we have to chops to make it work (and so far we haven’t) but that we could specifically forge our identity around Dahlin Power Byram seems reasonable to me as an avenue to chase

its a 1 a 1 and a 4 overall lol

if you can’t build around that you weren’t going to have the competence to assemble an elite F group anyways lol 

Just make the GT as fail-safed as possible and supplement the forwards as if you are expecting as little as possible and we might get through this

Edited by Thorny
Thorner Hall of Famer

Thorner

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Trying more so for the Nashville model that didn’t quite get it done vs targeting the sabres 06 model that didn’t quite get it done. Top-level D depth being the biggest strength over top-level centre depth 

RochesterExpat Third Liner

RochesterExpat

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Posted
  On 3/8/2024 at 6:16 PM, dudacek said:

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

Expand  

I hate the term grit, but Buffalo does need to add players who are more aggressive pursuing pucks. They switched from a transition team to a dump and chase team and have the lowest successful puck retrieval rate in the entire league. You can't play dump and chase hockey if no one chases. 

  On 3/8/2024 at 5:59 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

Expand  

Vegas made it to the Cup Final the first year off of offensive depth, exceptional defense, and exceptional goaltending. During the playoffs, MAF was the gamebreaker for that team. I guess one could argue they didn't win the cup, but they still made it further than the majority of the teams on your list.

Pimlach All Star

Pimlach

Posted
Posted
  On 3/8/2024 at 5:59 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

Expand  

Tage would be on there if not for the poor 2023-24 season. 

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PerreaultForever All Star

PerreaultForever

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To answer the question, sure, that's the answer, an elite forward. If only we could add a big name like say, Taylor Hall. 

(So no, that's not it). 

Instead, consider Philly. Consider Nashville. Look at the Yzerplan. Look at any team that rebuilds faster than we do. 

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a VERY SPECIFIC REASON to revive this one.

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