Is the Sabres biggest issue upfront the lack of an elite forward?

[GASabresIUFAN]

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

[Marvin]

I don't think of any of Winnipeg's forwards as elite.  They beat you with balance and overwhelm the bottom of your roster.

[#freejame]

[thewookie1]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

Thompson when healthy, Cozens could eventually

[dudacek]

It's their biggest issue this year.

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

Last year Tuch/Thompson/Skinner was one of the best lines in hockey. This year, they're a decent NHL 2nd line.

I've maintained that for the current build to work it needs Power, Dahlin and now Byram to provide elite play-driving from the back end.

But Thompson still has to be a game-breaker up front — not necessarily elite, but 40-goal dangerous.

EDIT: when the ***** will I remember it's Byram, not Byrum.

 

Edited March 8 by dudacek

[Thorner]

Could be.

Can you be a cup contender with 2 2Cs, if you have 2 elite defenders? Was Nashville a cup contender for a couple years (actually asking)? I think this is possible 

i certainly know we can be a solid playoff team in that scenario. We have the top 6 c depth to be a playoff team 

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It's their biggest issue this year.

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

Last year Tuch/Thompson/Skinner was one of the best lines in hockey. This year, they're a decent NHL 2nd line.

I've maintained that for the current build to work it needs Power, Dahlin and now Byrum to provide elite play-driving from the back end.

But Thompson still has to be a game-breaker up front — not necessarily elite, but 40-goal dangerous.

Quinn can be mark Stone, and we trade for Eichel 

[Porous Five Hole]

Why is Tage not considered elite? Because he’s been hurt all year?

The guy scored 47 last year which was sixth highest in the league. 

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Could be.

Can you be a cup contender with 2 2Cs, if you have 2 elite defenders? Was Nashville a cup contender for a couple years (actually asking)? I think this is possible 

i certainly know we can be a solid playoff team in that scenario. We have the top 6 c depth to be a playoff team 

Quinn can be mark Stone, and we trade for Eichel 

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

[Thorner]

I think there’s probably a better chance of finding success with 2 legit, top level “2Cs” (low-level 1Cs) than we do of Thompson establishing consistently as an elite C. 

Thankfully their contracts appear to allow for that reality 

2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Why is Tage not considered elite? Because he’s been hurt all year?

The guy scored 47 last year which was sixth highest in the league. 

Because as of now it’s that one year that’s the outlier re: elite or no, not this season 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

So the (risky) but logically sound play was to assume our ability to find another 2C much more attainable than a first pair D (which they obv believe Byram to be)

[nfreeman]

No.  It's coaching.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

With Mittelstadt, we could in theory have rolled out a trio of 2Cs with 3 roughly equal lines and tried to win that way.

It's what I would have done and thought was the plan looking at all the very talented, but probably not elite pieces we had up front.

The reason I'm not dismissing the trade is because, in theory, having three 1st-pairing defencemen is also path that could work.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It's what I would have done and thought was the plan looking at all the very talented, but probably not elite pieces we had up front.

The reason I'm not dismissing the trade is because, in theory, having three 1st-pairing defencemen is also path that could work.

Make your strength REALLY a strength. Establish an identity, perhaps?

im definitely trying to look at our forwards through the prism of how good they’d need to be while being qb’D by an elite D unit

im not saying we have to chops to make it work (and so far we haven’t) but that we could specifically forge our identity around Dahlin Power Byram seems reasonable to me as an avenue to chase

its a 1 a 1 and a 4 overall lol

if you can’t build around that you weren’t going to have the competence to assemble an elite F group anyways lol 

Just make the GT as fail-safed as possible and supplement the forwards as if you are expecting as little as possible and we might get through this

Edited March 8 by Thorny

[Thorner]

Trying more so for the Nashville model that didn’t quite get it done vs targeting the sabres 06 model that didn’t quite get it done. Top-level D depth being the biggest strength over top-level centre depth 

[RochesterExpat]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not the hoary Sabrespace cliches of "grit" and "defence"

I hate the term grit, but Buffalo does need to add players who are more aggressive pursuing pucks. They switched from a transition team to a dump and chase team and have the lowest successful puck retrieval rate in the entire league. You can't play dump and chase hockey if no one chases. 

49 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

Vegas made it to the Cup Final the first year off of offensive depth, exceptional defense, and exceptional goaltending. During the playoffs, MAF was the gamebreaker for that team. I guess one could argue they didn't win the cup, but they still made it further than the majority of the teams on your list.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

This team is so screwed for the rest of the year.... serious tank going to happen

[PromoTheRobot]

Our issue is our elite forwards not being elite.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Our issue is our elite forwards not being elite.

In general, as in we over-valued them, or this season, as in this season was an aberration?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

In general, as in we over-valued them, or this season, as in this season was an aberration?

I'm hoping the latter since we gave Tage and Dylan huge deals.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Lack of owner,  GM, coach,  grit, skill,  mental toughness....etc. etc.

[Radar]

The problem is not up front. It's upstairs.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

When you look around the NHL, the top teams (except WPG) all have at least one elite forward, most have two or more.  The ones with only one usually a excellent depth behind the star such as the NYR with Kreider, Trocheck, and Zibanejad behind Panarin.

1 - Florida - Tkachuk, Barkov and Reinhart

2 - Van - Pettersson & JT MIller

3 - Bos - Pastrnak & Marchand (they're goaltending is elite)

4 - Dallas - Robertson

5 - NYR - Panarin 

6 - Wpg -  Connor? Scheifele?

7 - Col - McKinnon, Rantanen

8 - Car - Aho

9 - Tor - Matthews, Marner & Nylander

10 - Edm - McDavid & Draisaitl

Would you put any Sabres forward on a list with these players?  Maybe Cozens and Benson some day, but that day doesn't look very soon does it?

 

Tage would be on there if not for the poor 2023-24 season. 

[Night Train]

Multiple elite forwards. Let's get real about this roster.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Pimlach said:

Tage would be on there if not for the poor 2023-24 season. 

Tage isn’t close.  Last year was a career year and won’t be repeated. 

[PerreaultForever]

To answer the question, sure, that's the answer, an elite forward. If only we could add a big name like say, Taylor Hall. 

(So no, that's not it). 

Instead, consider Philly. Consider Nashville. Look at the Yzerplan. Look at any team that rebuilds faster than we do.