Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Is it just me, or has the board generally had a pretty dramatic swing from “we can afford to trade Mittelstadt” to “we have a giant Mittelstadt-sized hole on the roster”?

I always thought moving Mitts was a mistake.  You can see my reaction early in this thread.  I came around to Byram after the first few games, but now I'm cool on him again.  He's certainly no savior.  Hopefully Lindy can get the best out of him.  But I said when Mitts was still with the team, I thought he might be our best forward come playoff time.

I think the argument for trading him is that they've already got two long term, high dollar (although reasonably priced) contracts for centers and didn't think Mitts would be happy with what the offer was going to be.  I think not even engaging him in contract talks (as has been reported) was a huge mistake.  Maybe he would have accepted a similar 7x7 deal.  If so, would that mess up signing other players such as JJP and Quinn?  I dunno.  But I felt that investing all we did in Mitts, then trading him for a D that may or may not be high end was... imprudent at best.  Still I'm waiting to see how it works out.

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

some kind of family issue playing out behind the scenes

Hmm?

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, ... said:

I wouldn't want a Mitts, Gaustad or Hecht type player for the 3C next year. None of those players has the edge this team needs.

Eh.  I think Mitts his plenty edgy and getting edgier as he gets older.

[Doohicksie]

When Mitts came up he was the 98 pound weakling in this ad.  He's become the Hero of the Beach as he's gotten older.

 

[French Collection]

35 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

When Mitts came up he was the 98 pound weakling in this ad.  He's become the Hero of the Beach as he's gotten older.

 

I printed this, clipped the order form and mailed it in c/o Owen Power.

[K-9]

40 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

When Mitts came up he was the 98 pound weakling in this ad.  He's become the Hero of the Beach as he's gotten older.

 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Is it just me, or has the board generally had a pretty dramatic swing from “we can afford to trade Mittelstadt” to “we have a giant Mittelstadt-sized hole on the roster”?

Maybe it was more gradual over the past year or so, as Cozens and Tage dropped off and Casey emerged?

From a depth perspective, I would be surprised if 1 or more of Krebs, Kulich, Östlund and Savoie doesn’t emerge as a decent 3C or better.

But I - and I think most of us - would be shocked if any are that this year.

It is my hope that Mitts is replaced not by another Mitts, but by a different kind of 3C: cheaper, edgier, more defensively focused.

With Lindy on board, I don’t think it’s a stretch to target a Gaustad or Hecht type of player.

Things change fast when you lead your team in scoring an are your team’s best centre demonstrably, which he hadn’t been before. The biggest thing is the piece we dealt him for. It looks odd at first and the early returns were very poor. It’s worryingly looks like another potential “hindsight need not apply” blunder. We didn’t really need another second pair left shot D. I understand Adams doesn’t care about handedness and probably doesn’t think he’s a second pair D, but those aren’t my evaluations, personally 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Byram >> Mitts.

We still need a Top 4 RHD, and if Krebs doesn't work out at 3C, we need to procure a good one quickly.

Maybe a 40-50 game trial for Krebs next year on the menu? He should get a development year in the role

(On a side, more straightforward note: before the Mittelstadt trade we needed a top 4 D man. If after trading our leading centre on the roster and biggest trade chip we come away still needing a top 4 D, on a roster that already had Dahlin and Power before said trade: the trade failed)

Edited April 27 by Thorny

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, seer775 said:

One more year before we ship Krebs.

Byram trade wasn't a failure because we got a Top 4 Dman. Byram is much better than Joker, RJ, Clifton, and Samuelsson. I think he's a solid step and a half over Power also.

Now we have to move the extras for another Top 4 Dman.

Mitts isn’t the top 6 centre we thought we needed. He can and will (Adams..) be replaced.

So are you looking to give Krebs first crack at 3C this year? He’s your guy for game 1?

Byram wasn’t even CLOSE to as good as Power was, I don’t think we’ll be able to see eye to eye on evaluation here

“Move the extras for a top 4 D”

yes, our scraps that we don’t want will fetch a player as good or better than our 1C did…doesn’t seem very realistic tbh 

Edited April 27 by Thorny

[...]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Maybe a 40-50 game trial for Krebs next year on the menu? He should get a development year in the role

The Sabres are beyond this kind of thinking now. They have to be or whatever it is they are now projecting out into the collective consciousness will fail.

[LGR4GM]

Jack Quinn outproduced Krebs in 53 less games. 

18yr old Zach Benson just outpeoduced Krebs.

You can keep Krebs as a depth piece but pencil him in to your 3rd line center seems unwise. You should at least get a real 3rd line center because if Krebs fails it won't matter and if he succeeds, you gain depth. 

[Thorner]

38 minutes ago, ... said:

The Sabres are beyond this kind of thinking now. They have to be or whatever it is they are now projecting out into the collective consciousness will fail.

Ya I was being sort of tongue in cheek 

[Huckleberry]

I been thinking what makes this trade really make sense, if we can get Stamkos signed as 2C in the offseason.

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, seer775 said:

One more year before we ship Krebs.

Byram trade wasn't a failure because we got a Top 4 Dman. Byram is much better than Joker, RJ, Clifton, and Samuelsson. I think he's a solid step and a half over Power also.

Now we have to move the extras for another Top 4 Dman.

Mitts isn’t the top 6 centre we thought we needed. He can and will (Adams..) be replaced.

One more year for Krebs sure, but not if you are relying on him to be the 3C without a legit back up plan.  You can sign him, have him show up to camp and EARN a spot on the team, but he can't be penciled in to the lineup in any way.

Bryam...not enough of a sample size on this team for me to say for sure how good I think he is. But I don't think he was better than Power since the trade happened.  Power I thought was vastly over-rated on this board last year, and he struggled the first half of this season. However, I think Power played very VERY well the last month or two. I'm not so sure I'd say Byram is better, or even matched Power's play toward the end of the year.

[pastajoe]

Why couldn’t Krebs be the 4C. Then either obtain a 3C or give Kulich a chance.

[...]

2 minutes ago, pastajoe said:

Why couldn’t Krebs be the 4C. Then either obtain a 3C or give Kulich a chance.

He's ineffective as a center. In fact, he's ineffective on a NHL roster. He needs to be traded while he still has value.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, pastajoe said:

Why couldn’t Krebs be the 4C. Then either obtain a 3C or give Kulich a chance.

Because we're trying to make the playoffs and this is a good way not too. 

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, seer775 said:

Byram is much better than Joker, RJ, Clifton, and Samuelsson.

I'm not ready to say that yet.

[7+6=13]

41 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not ready to say that yet.

He's certainly better than RJ and Joker.  IMO, he's different than Clifton and Samuelsson - so it's not a better argument for me..  Clifton has skills that Ruff will use. Samuelsson has to be available or he's not better than anyone that's playing.

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jack Quinn outproduced Krebs in 53 less games. 

18yr old Zach Benson just outpeoduced Krebs.

You can keep Krebs as a depth piece but pencil him in to your 3rd line center seems unwise. You should at least get a real 3rd line center because if Krebs fails it won't matter and if he succeeds, you gain depth. 

You get a guy who you known can play 14 minutes of NHL + hockey a night and you tell Krebs there’s your target; be better than him and those minutes are yours.

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not ready to say that yet.

If I squint hard I can see someone who only watched Byram play in Buffalo say that.

Im reminded of last year and what everyone was saying about Greenway.

Im not going to say we bought low because we paid a pretty big price. But I will say you weren’t getting him at that price any time before this year.

He’s shown he can be better and I expect he will be.

Edited April 28 by dudacek

[Doohicksie]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Im reminded of last year and what everyone was saying about Greenway.

This line made me laugh out loud.  We didn't trade one of our best players to Greenway.  Honestly I'm starting to see Byram like Risto:  Great highlights with poor hockey sense the rest of the time.

[Doohicksie]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

He’s shown he can be better and I expect he will be.

Perhaps, but he's exactly the kind of player everyone was kvetching about on locker cleanout day- not self-motivated, only plays when he feels like it.

[Doohicksie]

The trade was made and now the Sabres have a Mitts sized hole in the forward ranks and maybe....? an improvement on defense.  Makes no sense.

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Perhaps, but he's exactly the kind of player everyone was kvetching about on locker cleanout day- not self-motivated, only plays when he feels like it.

This is not his history at all.

 

17 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

This line made me laugh out loud.  We didn't trade one of our best players to Greenway.  Honestly I'm starting to see Byram like Risto:  Great highlights with poor hockey sense the rest of the time.

We traded Derek Roy for a guy people thought could become Duncan Keith but so far looks like he's projecting as Brandon Montour.

Weren't you one of the guys who stuck by Mitts through his early struggles?

Byram is 22, has played 164 NHL games and has 72 points.

At 22 Mitts had played 155 NHL games and had 61 NHL points

 

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, seer775 said:

TT: 0.68 ppg, 26 y/o

Cozens: 0.59 ppg, 23 y/o

Mitts: 0.55 ppg, 25 y/o

Where is there room for Mitts?

I don't see anyone else on the roster capable of filling in the minutes of either of those guys should they go down. And that's assuming Tage and Dylan can bounce back.

I also don't see anyone on the roster capable of contributing anything close to what Mitts could from the 3C slot.

This is kinda like the argument against acquiring Byrum. It's actually a good thing to have guys who are better than their roster slot.

It's kinda what makes the good teams good.

[Buffalonill]

I think Savoie takes casey spot next