Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Buffalonill]

3 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I still do not for a second believe that Adams has plans on extending Byram. He gives him first pair minutes and a possibility to show what he really is capabel of and trade him when his price is high, probably for a cheaper solid RHD and 2 nd.

At least I would do so.

Why would he trade Byram when the Plan is for him to be partners with Dahlin long term 

[thewookie1]

13 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Why would he trade Byram when the Plan is for him to be partners with Dahlin long term 

I'd guess to bridge him next year as long as its working well with Dahlin.

[Broken Ankles]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What makes you believe that Adams has no plans to extend Byram? Your agitated gut? It's likely that Byram is going to get an extension because if he doesn't then the Mitts deal makes no sense. 

  Money.  Last year, the highest paid blue line in the NHL was $34m.  If you assume he is a top pair, then with an elevated cap he would slot in between $10.5m-$11.5m.  If that holds, then with Power, Dahlin, Mule, Joki, and Clifton the 2025/26 AAV of this six would be  $42-43M.  This does not include Johnson would be also be coming off his ELC that would increase to around $2-3 on a bridge deal.  Half your cap cannot be spent on 6 defenders.

  I would add that I’m not sold Adams wouldn’t extend him either. Not saying he would keep all three massive salaries. It gives him options next year.  Rasmus for example is not an Adams draft pick, and he has until June 30th next year before his NMC kicks in.  Kev likes to it young around here.  Or, if Byram has a breakout year, he could garner much more than you mentioned next offseason if KA decides to keep Dahlin and Power.  Think close to the return that Calgary got for Tkachuk.  A defensive D (Weegar), a top line player and a 1st.  Obviously health and performance are assumed. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

  Money.  Last year, the highest paid blue line in the NHL was $34m.  If you assume he is a top pair, then with an elevated cap he would slot in between $10.5m-$11.5m.  If that holds, then with Power, Dahlin, Mule, Joki, and Clifton the 2025/26 AAV of this six would be  $42-43M.  This does not include Johnson would be also be coming off his ELC that would increase to around $2-3 on a bridge deal.  Half your cap cannot be spent on 6 defenders.

  I would add that I’m not sold Adams wouldn’t extend him either. Not saying he would keep all three massive salaries. It gives him options next year.  Rasmus for example is not an Adams draft pick, and he has until June 30th next year before his NMC kicks in.  Kev likes to it young around here.  Or, if Byram has a breakout year, he could garner much more than you mentioned next offseason if KA decides to keep Dahlin and Power.  Think close to the return that Calgary got for Tkachuk.  A defensive D (Weegar), a top line player and a 1st.  Obviously health and performance are assumed. 

Your point has merit, but even if Byram is top paring here he is not really a top pairing guy in the NHL yet.  He will be extended with likely a 3 year $18M to $20M contract - $6M to $6.5M per = the Dahlin bridge deal.  The only issue with a 3 year deal is I think it takes him directly to UFA.  I think he is 24 now and he may have 4 NHL seasons at the end of this one.

[Broken Ankles]

17 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Your point has merit, but even if Byram is top paring here he is not really a top pairing guy in the NHL yet.  He will be extended with likely a 3 year $18M to $20M contract - $6M to $6.5M per = the Dahlin bridge deal.  The only issue with a 3 year deal is I think it takes him directly to UFA.  I think he is 24 now and he may have 4 NHL seasons at the end of this one.

 He has arbitration rights, which if he performs equal to or better than Dahlin he could demand more than $6M.  And those scenarios offer either 1 or 2 year options.  Two years walks him to UFA (7 years service - this contract takes him to 5), and then you get nothing after the deal.  Plus I don't think the Sabres are competing for the Cup in year three of his tenure (aka Year 16 of our suffering).  

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Why would he trade Byram when the Plan is for him to be partners with Dahlin long term 

Read the post Broken Ankel wrote, could not have said it better.

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, SabreFinn said:

Read the post Broken Ankel wrote, could not have said it better.

You both are Worried about a 22 year old getting a pay day when buffalo still has 4 years to kick the can down road. 

Who knows if power or Mattias will not be moved in that frame 

[Hank]

I'm not going to be comparing how Byram does with the Sabres to how Mitts does with the Avs. 

What I'm really interested in is Yakov Trenin. The Avs picked him up from Nashville for a 3rd round pick in 25. He's a decent 3rd line winger. I'm very interested in how the Avs use him going forward compared to how the use Mitts, who the line up with and how they produce. 

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

I'm not going to be comparing how Byram does with the Sabres to how Mitts does with the Avs. 

What I'm really interested in is Yakov Trenin. The Avs picked him up from Nashville for a 3rd round pick in 25. He's a decent 3rd line winger. I'm very interested in how the Avs use him going forward compared to how the use Mitts, who the line up with and how they produce. 

I bet there is a thread about that over on the Predators forum.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I bet there is a thread about that over on the Predators forum.

Aren't you bitchy today. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

  Money.  Last year, the highest paid blue line in the NHL was $34m.  If you assume he is a top pair, then with an elevated cap he would slot in between $10.5m-$11.5m.  If that holds, then with Power, Dahlin, Mule, Joki, and Clifton the 2025/26 AAV of this six would be  $42-43M.  This does not include Johnson would be also be coming off his ELC that would increase to around $2-3 on a bridge deal.  Half your cap cannot be spent on 6 defenders.

  I would add that I’m not sold Adams wouldn’t extend him either. Not saying he would keep all three massive salaries. It gives him options next year.  Rasmus for example is not an Adams draft pick, and he has until June 30th next year before his NMC kicks in.  Kev likes to it young around here.  Or, if Byram has a breakout year, he could garner much more than you mentioned next offseason if KA decides to keep Dahlin and Power.  Think close to the return that Calgary got for Tkachuk.  A defensive D (Weegar), a top line player and a 1st.  Obviously health and performance are assumed. 

You gave a well stated and reasoned response to my post. However, I respectfully but strenuously disagree with it. Your position would have greater resonance with me if the GM acquired Byram without the trading of Mitts. I'm not saying the future contracts would be comparable and match one another, but for the most part not having to sign Mitts to a deal would have a significant offset for the future contract of Byram. In addition, Okposo and very likely Olofsson's contract will be off the books next year. Will one of the other defenders, such as Joki, be dealt? Maybe. Also, you have to consider the cap going up to a degree in the near future. 

As far as the Sabres spending a disproportionate amount of money $$ for the blueline, I wouldn't be bothered by it. Not all teams are built and capped in the same manner. If players such as Dahlin, Power and Byram are our best players, then so be it. They will be paid according to their talent level. My general point is that the trade of Mitts for Byram benefited each team. And it's very likely that each respective team will work out a contract worthy of each player's talent level. 

[SabreFinn]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

What makes you believe that Adams has no plans to extend Byram? Your agitated gut? It's likely that Byram is going to get an extension because if he doesn't then the Mitts deal makes no sense. 

 

56 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

You both are Worried about a 22 year old getting a pay day when buffalo still has 4 years to kick the can down road. 

Who knows if power or Mattias will not be moved in that frame 

I usually trust my gut and this is the feeling I get. Hard to explain it in any other way.

And. If we got Byram, Dahlin and Power and we, for an exampel, get an offer on Byram in exchange for Clayton Keller or a sign and trade for Pesce, I do think we will more than just listen. And if mr Bo continues like this, we will get offers.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, SabreFinn said:

 

I usually trust my gut and this is the feeling I get. Hard to explain it in any other way.

And. If we got Byram, Dahlin and Power and we, for an exampel, get an offer on Byram in exchange for Clayton Keller or a sign and trade for Pesce, I do think we will more than just listen. And if mr Bo continues like this, we will get offers.

And if Byram continues like this (small sample size) it would be even more of a reason to keep him. We just acquired him. I'm baffled by the comments about moving him. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Aren't you bitchy today. 

Yes. Blame the Sabres.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I still do not for a second believe that Adams has plans on extending Byram. He gives him first pair minutes and a possibility to show what he really is capabel of and trade him when his price is high, probably for a cheaper solid RHD and 2 nd.

At least I would do so.

I suspect this might be correct, however, as a fan, this magnifies the view that we tread water, get nowhere, and are just a farm team for the rest of the league.

I mean if you are right, oh yay we ditched our 2/3C for a rental on D and then get more prospects. Hoo-ha. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, ... said:

Mitts was going to present a similar problem in that he was likely going to want 2C money.

He was, and he was likely not going to fit into their cap projections/decisions but getting rid of one problem with another problem isn't really a good plan. We are just kicking the can down the road. 

[Hank]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

He was, and he was likely not going to fit into their cap projections/decisions but getting rid of one problem with another problem isn't really a good plan. We are just kicking the can down the road. 

Or, he could be part of the core going forward. I know it's only three games, but he's really ***** good. Apparently Mitts wasn't in thier future plans. Maybe there were non-game reasons they wanted to ship him out. Can we hold off on bitching about trading Byram until we actually trade Byram? Or are we just so ***** miserable around here we have to invent reasons to be unhappy?

Edited March 12 by Hank

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Or, he could be part of the core going forward. I know it's only three games, but he's really ***** good. Apparently Mitts wasn't in thier future plans. Maybe there were non-game reasons they wanted to ship him out. Can we hold off on bitching about trading Byram until we actually trade Byram? Or are we just so ***** miserable around here we have to invent reasons to be unhappy?

Most people have picked their position on the team, and nothing this year is going to change it.  Many on here to criticize things, they are going to criticize things until what they want happens, and for many, that is Granato, Adams, and at least 1/4 of the current roster is gone.  I swear that if they brought in a new GM (A GM approved on by the 'negative bunch' on this forum) and the exact same trade was made, many who not criticize it would be 'more' OK with it because someone else besides Adams made it.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Most people have picked their position on the team, and nothing this year is going to change it.  Many on here to criticize things, they are going to criticize things until what they want happens, and for many, that is Granato, Adams, and at least 1/4 of the current roster is gone.  I swear that if they brought in a new GM (A GM approved on by the 'negative bunch' on this forum) and the exact same trade was made, many who not criticize it would be 'more' OK with it because someone else besides Adams made it.

Of course you're right!

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, Hank said:

Or, he could be part of the core going forward. I know it's only three games, but he's really ***** good. Apparently Mitts wasn't in thier future plans. Maybe there were non-game reasons they wanted to ship him out. Can we hold off on bitching about trading Byram until we actually trade Byram? Or are we just so ***** miserable around here we have to invent reasons to be unhappy?

No, the point was Colorado traded him because they thought they wouldn't be able to sign him and give him what he wanted at the end of this deal. This is now our problem. It's a real thing. We already gave money to Power and Dahlin so how do we make Byram work into that down the line? I don't see it. 

The point is, if you were set on trading Mitts, I'd rather have replaced him with a mid level defender and a forward. A big/tough winger or a back up goalie. Things we actually need long term to fit with what he already have. Byram is talented, no question, but we already have Dahlin. 

[...]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

He was, and he was likely not going to fit into their cap projections/decisions but getting rid of one problem with another problem isn't really a good plan. We are just kicking the can down the road. 

At least with Byram we are ostensibly filling a dire need which Mitts did not especially with Krebs and other forwards somewhere in the system. I suspect someone else on the D who may take up too much cap room will be gone in order to make room for Byram - if Byram works out.

Quick math, but for 2024-25, assuming we retain everyone we have left for approximately the same cap hit, we'll be spending $31,633,333 on the D. If Byram is to stay, while I bet he'll want Dahlin money, let's say he takes $10m/yr for X years. For 2025-26, assuming everything and everyone stay the same (yes, I know they won't), the cap hit for the D would be $37,783,343.

Is that too much for a D corp?

 

Edited March 12 by ...
lips

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I suspect this might be correct, however, as a fan, this magnifies the view that we tread water, get nowhere, and are just a farm team for the rest of the league.

I mean if you are right, oh yay we ditched our 2/3C for a rental on D and then get more prospects. Hoo-ha. 

I really hope if trade him, we do it in another hockeytrade, and not for draftpicks or prospects.

And yes we tread water.

And I like Byram, he is great and I would love to have him on the top pair with Dahlin, if we not had to pay Power also.

Edited March 12 by SabreFinn

[Thorner]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:55 PM, Weave said:

The expectation was that he’d return around the holidays, definitely not relatively early in the season.  December-January was always the discussed timeframe.

The lack of urgency in addressing that hole for a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade was absurdly troubling 

“oh, he’ll be back mid season”. As if the games beforehand don’t represent crucial, unmissable points to this team

Edited March 12 by Thorny

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Most people have picked their position on the team, and nothing this year is going to change it.  Many on here to criticize things, they are going to criticize things until what they want happens, and for many, that is making the playoffs.  I swear that if they brought in a new GM (A GM approved on by the 'negative bunch' on this forum) and the exact same trade was made, many who not criticize it would be 'more' OK with it because someone else besides Adams made it.

Ftfy

[mjd1001]

44 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ftfy

Nope, wrong. My post is referring to the increasing number of people that want heads to roll Regardless. They've made up their mind this management and this coaching staff is bad and no matter what they do, it doesn't matter.

This head coach and general manager could have this team make the playoffs next year, but to many people they don't want to give them that chance and even if this team was on their way to doing that next year, they've made up their mind, they're going to wine and complain the entire way.

There have even been a couple of posts talking about the Sabres winning all three games this week and being back in the playoff hunt, and in those posts people have said they don't want that, because they would just rather have the general manager and coach be fired, rather than have this team win and get back into a playoff race, with the chance of making the playoffs this year.

The post of mine new quoted, those are the posters I'm referring to.

I'm all for discussion on both sides of every topic regarding the team, but when people get that negative and just complain about everything, well I'm not going to initiate it, but you're right, I'm going to hit back at those posts.

Edited March 12 by mjd1001