Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[JohnC]

38 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s really kind of simple, if both players play their perceived potential, the Sabres got a top pairing defenseman for a second line center. 

The added value that Mitts gave to the Sabres was that when needed he could be moved to the top line without it being diminished. Also, he had the versatility to play both the center and wing positions. Don't discount his versatility value. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying here because from the little I have seen of Byram, I am impressed. This was a good hockey trade for each team.

[Huckleberry]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The added value that Mitts gave to the Sabres was that when needed he could be moved to the top line without it being diminished. Also, he had the versatility to play both the center and wing positions. Don't discount his versatility value. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying here because from the little I have seen of Byram, I am impressed. This was a good hockey trade for each team.

Yeah but bad for us if thompson and cozens don't get their act together next year.   Then you are relying on Krebs/Savoie/Kulich being good enough.

[Pimlach]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:40 PM, Hank said:

Does adding Greenway, Robinson, Jost and Clifton to the roster the last two years while subtracting no one not disprove this whole "don't want to block the kids" narrative?

Does the Mitts for Byram trade not disprove a couple other narratives?

Are there any narratives left?

Is anything that you don’t like or agree with a narrative?  

Players were subtracted to add the players you mentioned.  Unless Adams somehow gets a 27 man roster?  Picking Jost off of waivers and trading for Robinson (an AHL player) is really not good enough GM work for my liking, but yes, they all replaced players that are worse. Robinson made Jost expandable, Jost made Bjork expandable, Clifton made Clague and Lybushkin expendable.  All KA acquisitions.   

I think I recall Adams using the “blocker” term in reference to Ulmark and Levi.  It’s hard to defend his logic on handling the goaltending at this point since goaltending cost us a playoff berth last year.  At least UPL is now proving him right but his goaltending the two prior years were Tokarski, Dell, Anderson, and an AHL level UPL.   

Mitts for Byram does not disprove or prove anything after 2 just games.  Byram looks good but let’s give this trade time,  and for this to be a great trade for the team he must also backfill Mitts.  They seem to want the backfill to be Krebs since he is getting a serious look, but maybe he brings in a proven vet for 3C?  Assuming he does, then you can argue the blocker comment is no longer relevant.   
 

This off season let’s see if Adams can up his game with some veteran acquisitions.   

Edited March 11 by Pimlach

[Huckleberry]

Im not getting the JJP hate, he has been on of our best players up until now.    Few bad games and we trade him ? 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

 

Mitts for Byram does not disprove or prove anything after 2 just games.  Byram looks good but let’s give this trade time,  and for this to be a great trade for the team he must also backfill Mitts.  They seem to want the backfill to be Krebs since he is getting a serious look, but maybe he brings in a proven vet for 3C?  Assuming he dies, them you can argue the blocker comment is no longer relevant.   
 

This off season let’s see if Adams can up his game with some veteran acquisitions.   

I understand some want to move on from Adams, but this is a little harsh 

Edited March 11 by Brawndo

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, JohnC said:

The added value that Mitts gave to the Sabres was that when needed he could be moved to the top line without it being diminished. Also, he had the versatility to play both the center and wing positions. Don't discount his versatility value. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying here because from the little I have seen of Byram, I am impressed. This was a good hockey trade for each team.

I went over to the Avs forum on HFBoards and told them Casey can play any top 9 position.  Versatile as hell.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Is anything that you don’t like or agree with a narrative?  

Players were subtracted to add the players you mentioned.  Unless Adams somehow gets a 27 man roster?  Picking Jost off of waivers and trading for Robinson (an AHL player) is really not good enough GM work for my liking, but yes, they all replaced players that are worse. Robinson made Jost expandable, Jost made Bjork expandable, Clifton made Clague and Lybushkin expendable.  All KA acquisitions.   

I think I recall Adams using the “blocker” term in reference to Ulmark and Levi.  It’s hard to defend his logic on handling the goaltending at this point since goaltending cost us a playoff berth last year.  At least UPL is now proving him right but his goaltending the two prior years were Tokarski, Dell, Anderson, and an AHL level UPL.   

Mitts for Byram does not disprove or prove anything after 2 just games.  Byram looks good but let’s give this trade time,  and for this to be a great trade for the team he must also backfill Mitts.  They seem to want the backfill to be Krebs since he is getting a serious look, but maybe he brings in a proven vet for 3C?  Assuming he dies, them you can argue the blocker comment is no longer relevant.   
 

This off season let’s see if Adams can up his game with some veteran acquisitions.   

I can argue it now because it's a narrative that contradicts facts. Adams acquired veterans mid season to play on the roster, he did not bring up kids. That is the very definition of blocking them. So yes, the "Adams don't want to block the kids" narrative needs to die. At best it's willful ignorance, more likely it's dishonest. That's how I see it, YMMV. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Im not getting the JJP hate, he has been on of our best players up until now.    Few bad games and we trade him ? 

He and Skinner still lead the team in goals.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I went over to the Avs forum on HFBoards and told them Casey can play any top 9 position.  Versatile as hell.

Last year, when Tage was playing hurt at the end of the season, Mitts took over at center while Tage played the wing on a lower line. The top line continued to be super productive. It's still too early to assess the trade of Mitts for Byram. It won't be surprising that this was a good hockey trade that benefited each team. We shall see. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I can argue it now because it's a narrative that contradicts facts. Adams acquired veterans mid season to play on the roster, he did not bring up kids. That is the very definition of blocking them. So yes, the "Adams don't want to block the kids" narrative needs to die. At best it's willful ignorance, more likely it's dishonest. That's how I see it, YMMV. 

Adams created “the narrative”.  He said those words   

What about Quinn getting hurt, and  no proven player brought in?  Instead he conducted an in-season round robin tryout for Rousek, Biro, Rosen, and Kulich.     Meanwhile the team fell out of contention.  

The forward group was so weak that Benson made the team, and at 18 he was clearly better than the group Adams brought up.  

oh yeah, he brought in Robinson.  Great.  
 

Talk about willful ignorance and being dishonest.   

I will judge him on his record   Year 5 is coming.  

 

Edited March 11 by Pimlach

[Hank]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Last year, when Tage was playing hurt at the end of the season, Mitts took over at center while Tage played the wing on a lower line. The top line continued to be super productive. It's still too early to assess the trade of Mitts for Byram. It won't be surprising that this was a good hockey trade that benefited each team. We shall see. 

I think it's a great trade for both teams. Mitts is a really good player. Colorado had a hole at 2C since Kadri left, Mitts may be the final piece they needed for a cup run. If Colorado signs him in the summer I think they'll be very happy with him going forward. 

As I said up thread, Byram not only upgrades the top pair, he'll make Dahlin a better player. His arrival also moves Mule to a more appropriate pairing making that pair better. 

I'm sure most people would consider Draisaitl a top five center in the league, even though he's not the top line center on his own team. I'm not comparing Byram to draisaitl, but he was in a similar situation in so far as both of them were behind generational players. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I understand some want to move on from Adams, but this is a little harsh 

Typo fixed

[Brawndo]

22 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Typo fixed

I knew what you meant, just having a little fun 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

I think it's a great trade for both teams. Mitts is a really good player. Colorado had a hole at 2C since Kadri left, Mitts may be the final piece they needed for a cup run. If Colorado signs him in the summer I think they'll be very happy with him going forward. 

As I said up thread, Byram not only upgrades the top pair, he'll make Dahlin a better player. His arrival also moves Mule to a more appropriate pairing making that pair better. 

I'm sure most people would consider Draisaitl a top five center in the league, even though he's not the top line center on his own team. I'm not comparing Byram to draisaitl, but he was in a similar situation in so far as both of them were behind generational players. 

You make a terrific point that by acquiring Byram to become a top pair or even second pair defender that it has a beneficial cascading effect of putting other defenders in a more appropriate role. His addition upgrades the lower pairings and allows the HC to play the top pair fewer heavy minutes every game. 

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adams created “the narrative”.  He said those words   

What about Quinn getting hurt, and  no proven player brought in?  Instead he conducted an in-season round robin tryout for Rousek, Biro, Rosen, and Kulich.     Meanwhile the team fell out of contention.  

The forward group was so weak that Benson made the team, and at 18 he was clearly better than the group Adams brought up.  

oh yeah, he brought in Robinson.  Great.  
 

Talk about willful ignorance and being dishonest.   

I will judge him on his record   Year 5 is coming.  

 

Quinn got hurt in-season so I'm not going to excoriate the GM over not putting together a trade to compensate for the loss of Quinn. (His season-ending injury was a big loss.) However, if this offseason the GM doesn't make enough significant moves to upgrade the roster with the amount of assets he has in his pocket, then I'm going to be very upset and join your posse in chasing him out of town. I'm not expecting a blockbuster deal. What I expect is at least a couple to few acquisitions that will make this team better. It's time to exhibit a greater degree of urgency. 

[Mango]

 

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Quinn got hurt in-season so I'm not going to excoriate the GM over not putting together a trade to compensate for the loss of Quinn. (His season-ending injury was a big loss.) However, if this offseason the GM doesn't make enough significant moves to upgrade the roster with the amount of assets he has in his pocket, then I'm going to be very upset and join your posse in chasing him out of town. I'm not expecting a blockbuster deal. What I expect is at least a couple to few acquisitions that will make this team better. It's time to exhibit a greater degree of urgency. 

@Pimlach is talking about Quinn's achilles injury, which happened in June. 3-4 months before the season started. No replacement was attempted to be brought in. No different than "the kid line" (which looks to be a Cozens issue at this point) No different than not allowing Ryan Johnson to QB the power play in Rochester because of Owen Power. 

[Stoner]

If he was Byram Bowen I'd feel better about it.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

@Pimlach is talking about Quinn's achilles injury, which happened in June. 3-4 months before the season started. No replacement was attempted to be brought in. No different than "the kid line" (which looks to be a Cozens issue at this point) No different than not allowing Ryan Johnson to QB the power play in Rochester because of Owen Power. 

I was referring to the in-season injury. The expectation for the achilles injury that he was going to return relatively earl in the season. 

[Weave]

24 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was referring to the in-season injury. The expectation for the achilles injury that he was going to return relatively earl in the season. 

The expectation was that he’d return around the holidays, definitely not relatively early in the season.  December-January was always the discussed timeframe.

[Archie Lee]

43 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was referring to the in-season injury. The expectation for the achilles injury that he was going to return relatively earl in the season. 

As Weave pointed out, it was known Quinn would miss a lot of time.  Also, Adams knew that:

- Granato had lost faith in Olofsson; and

- It would be highly unlikely that Quinn's off-season injury would be the only longer-term injury the forward group would sustain.  

We had the cap space and the draft/prospect capital to add a forward in the off-season and we chose not to. 

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

The expectation was that he’d return around the holidays, definitely not relatively early in the season.  December-January was always the discussed timeframe.

 

5 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

As Weave pointed out, it was known Quinn would miss a lot of time.  Also, Adams knew that:

- Granato had lost faith in Olofsson; and

- It would be highly unlikely that Quinn's off-season injury would be the only longer-term injury the forward group would sustain.  

We had the cap space and the draft/prospect capital to add a forward in the off-season and we chose not to. 

I would have liked to have added an additional two experienced players similar to Greenway and Clifton who played a grittier game prior to the season. Quinn came back in mid-December, as noted. But what has mostly hindered this team was that their best scorers (Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens and even Olofsson) collectively underperformed below expectation. And what was a potent PP at the end of last year had taken a significant drop down this year. The point I'm making here is that although there could/should have been more additions made in the last offseason, the source of this team's disappointment was internal i.e. decreased production.

I'm with the crowd here that this offseason the GM has to be judiciously aggressive in using his assets to bring in at least two to three or more players to improve the roster and better balance it out. 

[PerreaultForever]

So here's the biggest problem (besides us now needing a center). Listening to 32 thoughts today he was putting it out there that Colorado felt they would have to move Byram eventually because he wanted to be a number one guy (and paid like one) and that was never going to happen in Makar's shadow so when his contract comes up it'll be the Sabres problem given we already have Dahlin and Power (already paid in advance). I don't see this going well. 

[SabreFinn]

56 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

So here's the biggest problem (besides us now needing a center). Listening to 32 thoughts today he was putting it out there that Colorado felt they would have to move Byram eventually because he wanted to be a number one guy (and paid like one) and that was never going to happen in Makar's shadow so when his contract comes up it'll be the Sabres problem given we already have Dahlin and Power (already paid in advance). I don't see this going well. 

I still do not for a second believe that Adams has plans on extending Byram. He gives him first pair minutes and a possibility to show what he really is capabel of and trade him when his price is high, probably for a cheaper solid RHD and 2 nd.

At least I would do so.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I still do not for a second believe that Adams has plans on extending Byram. He gives him first pair minutes and a possibility to show what he really is capabel of and trade him when his price is high, probably for a cheaper solid RHD and 2 nd.

At least I would do so.

What makes you believe that Adams has no plans to extend Byram? Your agitated gut? It's likely that Byram is going to get an extension because if he doesn't then the Mitts deal makes no sense. 

[...]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So here's the biggest problem (besides us now needing a center). Listening to 32 thoughts today he was putting it out there that Colorado felt they would have to move Byram eventually because he wanted to be a number one guy (and paid like one) and that was never going to happen in Makar's shadow so when his contract comes up it'll be the Sabres problem given we already have Dahlin and Power (already paid in advance). I don't see this going well. 

Mitts was going to present a similar problem in that he was likely going to want 2C money.