Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because our GM is incompetent.  

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

Agreed. And none of our countless tiny forward prospects are looking anywhere near ready for next year. Kulich has dropped back greatly. Savoie is too small to be NHL ready. The other guys are at least 2 years away.

[msw2112]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can simply wait and judge based on the results, that part is easy enough

my question is a different one: does KA, in his heart of hearts, in your estimation, think he’s making the team better next season, through this move, and it’s corresponding?

I know you can’t know the answer but what do you think. Do you think KA is making the deal to facilitate an improved team next season? Or long term? 

I think he's looking more long-term.  There are lots of young, talented forwards in the pipeline.  There isn't room on the roster for all of them and you can't pay them all.  Thus, long-term, you add a top-flight defenseman and open up a spot for a talented young forward in the pipeline.  I just don't think any forwards in the pipeline are ready to make a major contribution this season or next.  I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I believe they are looking at the long-term salary cap implications of signing Mittlestadt to a new contract at his present value and how that might hamstring the team in the future (as I stated above, you can't pay them all).

Note that my comments here are just my assessment of what I believe KA is thinking.  I'm not a fan of the trade.

Edited March 6 by msw2112

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can simply wait and judge based on the results, that part is easy enough

my question is a different one: does KA, in his heart of hearts, in your estimation, think he’s making the team better next season, through this move, and it’s corresponding?

I know you can’t know the answer but what do you think. Do you think KA is making the deal to facilitate an improved team next season? Or long term? 

Personally I think he beleives it for both next year and the future.  Next year, it is going to have to be him being confident he can do more than he has in any other offseason.  Maybe its just me trying to be optimistic, but I think next year's success depends more on Tage getting back to his form of the previous 2 years and Cozens being who he has been the last 2 months and not the first 3 months.  Ultimately, THAT may (or may not) be what he is counting on the most.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The tragedy would be pencilling Krebs into 3C next year based on his finish and not the season as a whole 

 

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

Purple elephant 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

Agreed. And none of our countless tiny forward prospects are looking anywhere near ready for next year. Kulich has dropped back greatly. Savoie is too small to be NHL ready. The other guys are at least 2 years away.

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

 

Purple elephant 

Apparently great minds think alike.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, msw2112 said:

I think he's looking more long-term.  There are lots of young, talented forwards in the pipeline.  There isn't room on the roster for all of them and you can't pay them all.  Thus, long-term, you add a top-flight defenseman and open up a spot for a talented young forward in the pipeline.  I just don't think any forwards in the pipeline are ready to make a major contribution this season or next.  I hope I'm wrong.

Fair. If true, if KA would candidly tell you the trade likely represents a slight deficit next year but a better prognostication long term, in that scenario I abjectly hate the trade 

[msw2112]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Do Kulich, Rosen, or Rousek fight their way into this mix?  I think that Östlund is too far off.  Anyone else in the mix in Roch that I'm not considering?

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Apparently great minds think alike.

We are worse next year. Byram was a net negative on a very good team. Unless he improves greatly, he's going to suck on the Sabres. But because he's the shiny new toy, we're going to play the crap out of him. Meanwhile, we're missing Casey's production.

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m not asking you to. I’m not asking you to be pessimistic.

There’s an arguable position wherein one says, well, this makes our team likely a bit worse next season, but likely better long term. I hate it, but it’s there. It doesn’t need to be “to avoid a payday”. This is a good faith discussion  

 

Ahhhhh…..

I have no idea, lol.  The potential is there for it to be either.  Need to see what else comes.

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Apparently great minds think alike.

Can those guys stay healthy for the most part?  Can you get 170 goals out of those 2 lines? (100 from the first line, 70 from the 2nd line?)   If so, AND Bryam progresses and is as good as he has showed flashed on the Blue line, it might be a playoff caliber 'roster' with that top 2 lines and your top 2 D-pairings.  I hope and I'm willing to see how it goes.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Personally I think he beleives it for both next year and the future.  Next year, it is going to have to be him being confident he can do more than he has in any other offseason.  Maybe its just me trying to be optimistic, but I think next year's success depends more on Tage getting back to his form of the previous 2 years and Cozens being who he has been the last 2 months and not the first 3 months.  Ultimately, THAT may (or may not) be what he is counting on the most.

Thanks. If KA believes the deal helps us next season, he absolutely needs to pull the trigger 

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

Can those guys stay healthy for the most part?  Can you get 170 goals out of those 2 lines? (100 from the first line, 70 from the 2nd line?)   If so, AND Bryam progresses and is as good as he has showed flashed on the Blue line, it might be a playoff caliber 'roster' with that top 2 lines and your top 2 D-pairings.  I hope and I'm willing to see how it goes.

The roster will need to be capable of making the playoffs sans health if we’ve built a worthy roster at all 

[mjd1001]

Just now, Thorny said:

Thanks. If KA believes the deal helps us next season, he absolutely needs to pull the trigger 

Most/many of us wanted change. As fans we wanted a 'swing for the fences' type move.  You aren't getting Cale Makar for Krebs and a pick and a prospect. To get a young guy with potential, you have to give up something.  For now, I am 'entertained'.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Most/many of us wanted change. As fans we wanted a 'swing for the fences' type move.  You aren't getting Cale Makar for Krebs and a pick and a prospect. To get a young guy with potential, you have to give up something.  For now, I am 'entertained'.

Right, but you are getting into trouble here now (with me lol) because you yourself argued otherwise. I read all your posts. You are the “we don’t need surgery” guy we just needs tweaks. So how can I put faith in your well-laid out arguments if they, nonetheless, appear to be positions you’ve taken purely to take them, but not in line with your original stance? 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[Marvin]

So now we are targeting 14 years and counting.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

So now we are targeting 14 years and counting.

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Right, but you are getting into trouble here now (with me lol) because you yourself argued otherwise. I read all your posts. You are the “we don’t need surgery” guy we just needs tweaks. So how can I put faith in your well-laid out arguments if they, nonetheless, appear to be positions you’ve taken purely to take them, but not in line with your original stance? 

I'd rather have them do surgery with the scalpel instead of the sledghammer myself.  But, I'm open for anything at this point.  

I would RATHER they resign Mitts, move Cozens to wing, and trade for a D-man in the offseason. However, I'm ok with this.  What I consider different is a full coaching change, Adams out as GM, and numerous player changes (when I said surger with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer, it was in respons to those who want the major moves like I just listed in this sentence.)

[LTS]

55 minutes ago, freester said:

I think Muel gets traded to Calgary as part of package for Tkachuk

Is there another brother that no one is talking about?

46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's just confusing from a team building perspective and if he doesn't stay healthy or return to form, we fail... again. 

If and buts...

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because our GM is incompetent.  

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

Stop projecting next year when it hasn't happened yet. Work with what is...

The thing about this trade that I find interesting is that it was made... now.  The Sabres did not have to trade him now. He was an RFA and they had all summer to try and get a better deal.  The Avs clearly would want to make a deal and apparently Byram was enough to get it done in KA's eyes.  We'll never know what he could have achieved in the off-season where trades tend to be a little bit meatier.

All of that aside, I am a Byram fan and I think he has significant potential. The addition of another LHD is intriguing. I don't lament losing Mitts as much as I liked what he finally developed into.  Clearly this is not a trade for that changes the Sabres right now and is one made for next season.  So I'll see what else happens with the team before starting next season.

In the end only the results of the team matter.  This year was not good enough.

I'll say this.. at least Adams made a hockey trade.  A real one.

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

I'll say this.. at least Adams made a hockey trade.  A real one.

Amen to this.  I dread the remainder of this week, but goodness it is nice to discuss a bonafide hockey trade.

[GoPuckYourself]

I love this move by Adams, I liked what Casey Middlestadft has become but it became quite clear he wasn't part of the plans here when everyone of the core players got a contract but him. We need to bolster our defensive group and Byram will be our top 4 D, he wasn't in Colorado because they invested heavily in that department so he was buried on the roster and lets be honest if not for Byrams injuries we wouldnt even have had a shot at a player like this so I think Adams finally woke up and thats good to see. I love for him to make a move at a goalie also.

[mjd1001]

I'm not as worried about the Lefty/Righty thing with how he fits into the team, but more about the style of play.

I think your top 2 d pairings, you want one super skilled, attack the other end guy....and you want one guy who is more of the guy who is responsible, will not get caught up out of position, can get loose pucks and make a good first pass out of the zone. Doesn't have to be super physical, just 'responsible' (thus I was thinking a Vet with a LOT of expereince).

Your bottom pair guy is just going to be the best 2 guys you can scape up that won't hurt you while getting 5-9 less minutes of ice time than your top guys.

With that said, looking forward, Dahlin is the 'attack first' guy....Bryam clearly seems to be the same style. That leave Samuelsson as the 'responsible guy', but then Power also?  I'm not sure how they 'fit' when going into next year.

 

[LTS]

Green agree button if in the past you mocked Mitts for not being able to do a pull-up or how useless he was and are now in this thread dumping on this trade.

I'm curious how many will self-identify.

The purpose is only to demonstrate that what we think in one moment may be completely turned around in the future.  Deep breaths.

Edited March 6 by LTS

[Night Train]

I thought Cozens might be the one traded.

 Got his $.. but started to remind me of Stafford years back. Scores a lot in 3-4 games, then vanishes for weeks.   Thought they might deal him and give Mitts a good deal with the savings. I don't hate Cozens and see his solid hits every once in a while. But he is horribly streaky and that hurts during bad stretches. Must improve. 

Mitts can't score like Cozens but seems vastly improved at hitting scorers with great passes.  Still, the listed next contract numbers seemed high. 

[JoeSchmoe]

18 minutes ago, Marvin said:

So now we are targeting 14 years and counting.

Barring major improvements across the board from our existing roster or a major free agent acquisition, there is no way we make the playoffs next year. We are our worst team.

[Turbo44]

5 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I love this move by Adams, I liked what Casey Middlestadft has become but it became quite clear he wasn't part of the plans here when everyone of the core players got a contract but him. We need to bolster our defensive group and Byram will be our top 4 D, he wasn't in Colorado because they invested heavily in that department so he was buried on the roster and lets be honest if not for Byrams injuries we wouldnt even have had a shot at a player like this so I think Adams finally woke up and thats good to see. I love for him to make a move at a goalie also.

He was playing on Colorado’s 2nd pair so was in their top 4!!! Furthermore he played more minutes in the finals than any other player.

[...]

Pretty good trade. With a young roster, what better type of player than an equally young Stanley Cup winner? The old guys just can't relate anymore.

We needed a guy who is capable and can take minutes from Dahlin. Krebs has made Mitts expendable. Mitts is going to a playoff team, ain't ya happy foe him?

The comfy, cozy room just got a little shake up - they needed that, too.

Edited March 7 by ...
I've got a blister on me finger.