Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

You should stop whining incessantly about Dahlin then, under the prism of our own argument. Casey was bad so he’s always bad. Fine 

Dahlin is generational whether you like it or not 

[Derrico]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

 

This.  He's actually done it.  In the NHL.  He's 22.

[thewookie1]

If he can return to his playoff form, we will have a Stanley Cup winning Top Pairing Defenseman to play with Dahlin for years to come.

Otherwise we just dumped our finally solid Mitts for the defensive version of Tim Connelly.

 

To me this trade tells me either or both of Jokiharju and Muel are going to be moved out. 

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Don't love it or hate it. A hockey trade, and a boom or bust kinda deal.

I think you know what get with Casey: good 2nd-line centre just entering his prime who competes and excels 5-on-5.

But I'm a little surprised at the lack of knowledge on Byram: kid was the highest-ranked D in the 2019 draft and looked like a stud on the 2nd pair of a cup-winner as a 20-year-old just 2 years ago.

He hasn't been at that level since and he has been injured, but this is a guy who still has the upside to be a 1st-pairing defenceman.

I tell you one thing, if you had proposed this trade 2 years ago Colorado fans would have locked the thread and laughed you off the internet.

Trading for Byrum at this point of his career is like trading for Cozens at this point of his career: you know he's got more than he's shown this year, and not just because he's young, but because you've seen it. The question is how much more?

Trading for Casey is like trading for Alex Tuch this time last year: you love what he's doing right now, but also his value has never been higher.

In my view Casey is clearly the better player at this moment in time, Byrum clearly has more upside.

Sell high, buy low is generally the law of good management, but tht only works if you're good with your evaluations.

This will be a very good test of our hockey department's player skills at exactly that.

I mean, they are 2.5 years apart. If you keep Casey yes you have the better player now, and maybe Byram’s improvement gets him back to what he was. But why isn’t Casey being afforded that same likelihood? If I had to guess who was more likely to improve, I’d go with Casey, given trajectory 

Also I don’t really agree with the Tuch comp. Casey is younger, and also Tuch was in the midst of a career outlier season. Casey’s saw a progression and back to back 60 point seasons 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Definitely unfair to claim negative reaction as reflexive. Plenty of data points to suggest the deal is questionable, looking purely in a vacuum 

As soon as I saw LHD my heart sank. It goes against principles I’ve argued against in the past. It’s worrying positionally and due to injury concerns. And relative to giving up the forward who’s HAVING the best season, if that bridges that gap for you 

OK -- to be clear, not all the negative reactions are purely reflexive -- but many are.

 

5 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

Speaking of data points -- that is a nice one!

 

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Let's say argument's sake, that Byram stays healthy and has a great season next year.  How much would it cost to retain him? 6 mill, 7?  KA will also have to re-sign JJP and Quinn and has already invested some 27 million in Dahlin, Power, Clifton and Samuelsson, plus whatever he decides to pay Jokiharju to not run away as he is our only marginally competent RHD.  

I stand by my prediction, isf Byram plays well, we won't be able to afford to keep him and he'll be traded for other assets.

If Byram plays to his potential, it won't matter what Joki and Clifton do.  KA will keep him, probably on a long-term deal.

[Flashsabre]

I’m wondering how the Avs fit Mitts new contract in next season.

I think he will play well for the Avs.

Byram with Dahlin or Power will be interesting 

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

buying low on Byram, selling high on Fortnite

or getting a concussion victim who will never be the same (see Tim Connolly for example) for a player just maturing into stardom (see Sam Reinhart for example). 

Edited March 6 by GASabresIUFAN

[HumanSlinky39]

Mitts has been, arguably, our best forward this year...maybe best player period. Sad to see him go, but good for him getting to play for a contender. Thanks, Mitts.

[freester]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

If he can return to his playoff form, we will have a Stanley Cup winning Top Pairing Defenseman to play with Dahlin for years to come.

Otherwise we just dumped our finally solid Mitts for the defensive version of Tim Connelly.

 

To me this trade tells me either or both of Jokiharju and Muel are going to be moved out. 

I think Muel gets traded to Calgary as part of package for Tkachuk

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Ok, the positive point of view as others have said....

-Krebs basically takes Mitts spot. Is he as good? No, but he has taken a considerably step forward.

-Byram, although ANOTHER very young D-man, might possible give this team the best "Young" top 4 D-group in the league.  He is so young and still getting better.

-You don't have to pay Mitts that $5m-$7m per year, hopefully Krebs can give you a lot of what Mitts did, AND a lower cost guy from Roch fills in that spot next year on the lower lines.

I "Like" Mitts, but I didn't "love" his game.  He has turned into a very good player but not one I want to pay a lot of money for as I don't see him as someone who can take over a game.  I'm good with this move at this point, although I really, REALLY did like Mitts at center with Cozens on wing, I think this guarantees Cozens at Center, which I'm not too happy with.

You all can be negative all you want because that is what most of you do best, just complain about things almost no matter what moves happen. For me, Mitts is good but he's not a game changer carrying this team on his back to win after win after win....to see a change like this, I'm happy to see what it brings.

This is a solid take.  I think people here overvalued Mitts. Yes he is having a great contract year, but he is not a game changer, or a strong forechecker, or an ace on face offs.  I’d much rather have an established 32 year old two-way center that can win face offs on my third line and provide stability and support for the younger forwards. Hopefully this is what GMKA is looking at getting us for next season.  
 

Joker and EJ are gone next year, and Muel is in and out of the lineup so I don’t hate this, except for the concussion history.  Dahlin is a LD that plays right so we basically need one more RD for next year and we have 2LDs on the 3rd pairing.  

[Rasmus_]

Okay.  Bad players win the cup every year?

[dudacek]

Not really buying the idea here that this is a "futures" trade.

Byram can and should be playing on the Sabres 2nd pairing now and for the immediate future. In a perfect world (<--please note) he is the mercurial Guy Lapointe to Power's refined Serge Savard.

I expect bumps, but this is a 146-game NHL vet who has played heavy minutes in the Stanley Cup final, not an 18-year-old 17th overall pick. He'll play now and he will contribute.

Pretty much every one of you wanted the Sabres to turn one of their skilled forwards into a top 4 D. That is exactly what this trade is attempting to do. it's just not the skilled forward you wanted to trade, or the type of top 4 D you envisioned.

I don't disagree with the "yeah, but we don't really need a left-handed skill guy."

But Adams clearly said ***** the fit, I want the skill.

We'll see what happens.

Edited March 6 by dudacek

[Thorner]

Question: As mentioned, I can definitely see the talent with Byram. From a team building standpoint I find it confusing. But, for someone/those more confident than me in this trade ending up beneficial: Do you see the trade potentially improving the team as soon as next season? Would you argue that is likely? Or is that more best case scenario, with your likely estimation being we see net improvement further down the line? 

What say you? I’m open to the idea Byram could end up the better player but it literally only matters, for me, if it can happen for next season 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[Derrico]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean, they are 2.5 years apart. If you keep Casey yes you have the better player now, and maybe Byram’s improvement gets him back to what he was. But why isn’t Casey being afforded that same likelihood? If I had to guess who was more likely to improve, I’d go with Casey, given trajectory 

If you get Byram back to what he was then this trade would have cost us way more than Casey.  Byram doesn't even become available without his injury risk.  Undoubtedly there is risk here.  But I'm willing to take a shot based on the pedigree and what he's shown so far.  Not just putting up video game numbers in junior.  Playing top pairing 5 on 5 minutes in the Stanley cup finals.  Less than 24 months ago.  Hopefully he can stay healthy.  For Casey Mittlestadt I'm taking that risk all day.

[pi2000]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

what is this about? you keep saying it.

Go to the 4min mark of the video (circa 2020 iirc)...  

It's been a running joke that Casey is a Fortnite addict and it's hindered his development. 

 

 

[DarthEbriate]

Well, shoot. There goes my preseason prediction that Mitts would lead the team in points.

And there goes our best all-around center. On the other hand, his next contract was going to be more than an Efficient, Effective, and Economical front office was going to be willing to pay.

 

Let's go back to the 2019 scouting report:

        Kakko -- the K-Gun. More Ks to join UPL K^6.
        Turcotte -- sounds like a guy who would drive an AT-AT
        Byram -- sounds like a Rebel pilot
        Cozens -- sounds like an Imperial officer
        Zegras -- sounds like a bounty hunter
        Dach -- the excited young snowspeeder gunner!
        Pod -- "Now, this is Podkolzin!"
        Boldy -- "To boldy go where no one has... " wrong franchise.
        Krebs -- sounds like an Ewok 
        Cole Caufield -- sounds like a Tatooine farmer. I'm looking at you, Biggs Darklighter!

 

We've got a Rebel pilot, an Imperial officer, and an Ewok. We win!

[TheAud]

16 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

According to the crowd, "he's a player". That's what we need. 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Question: As mentioned, I can definitely see the talent with Byram. From a team building standpoint I find it confusing. But, for someone/those more confident than me in this trade ending up beneficial: Do you see the trade potentially improving the team as soon as next season? Would you argue that is likely? Or is that more best case scenario, with your likely estimation being we see net improvement further down the line? 

What say you? I’m open to the idea Byram could end up the better player but it literally only matters if it can happen for next season 

My guess would be any other defenseman outside of Dahlin, Power and Byram become trade assets besides R. Johnson who'd be our cheapest dman with a bridge more than likely. 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not really buying the idea here that this is a "futures" trade.

Byrum can and should be playing on the Sabres 2nd pairing now and for the immediate future. In a perfect world (<--please note) he is the mercurial Guy Lapointe to Power's refined Serge Savard.

I expect bumps, but this is a 146-game NHL vet who has played heavy minutes in the Stanley Cup final, not an 18-year-old 17th overall pick. He'll play now and he will contribute.

Pretty much every one of you wanted the Sabres to turn one of their skilled forwards into a top 4 D. That is exactly what this trade is attempting to do. it's just not the skilled forward you wanted to trade, or the type of top 4 D you envisioned.

I don't disagree with the "yeah, but we don;t really need a left-handed skill guy."

But Adams clearly said ***** the fit, I want the skill.

We'll see what happens.

Right on time given my quoted post below, Something to sink our teeth into ^

So you would say you find it a reasonable likelihood that, in KA’s reckoning, this improves the team next season?

 

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Question: As mentioned, I can definitely see the talent with Byram. From a team building standpoint I find it confusing. But, for someone/those more confident than me in this trade ending up beneficial: Do you see the trade potentially improving the team as soon as next season? Would you argue that is likely? Or is that more best case scenario, with your likely estimation being we see net improvement further down the line? 

What say you? I’m open to the idea Byram could end up the better player but it literally only matters, for me, if it can happen for next season 

 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

It's just confusing from a team building perspective and if he doesn't stay healthy or return to form, we fail... again. 

[Derrico]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Right on time given my quoted post below, Something to sink our teeth into ^

So you would say you find it a reasonable likelihood that, in KA’s reckoning, this improves the team next season

 

 

I have as many doubts as you regarding KA.  But I don't see why this wouldn't be a strong possibility.

[dudacek]

Going to miss Casey. I really respect the way he has overcome adversity and have enjoyed watching him play.

I also think he is going to be missed in the room.

This trade gives the Avs a better chance at winning the cup this year and I don't blame them for making it. Can Sabrespace handle yet another good centre traded to the eventual cup winner?

That said, I'm left with the impression Adams stood his ground in his evaluation and made the Avs pay a price they didn't really want to pay.

Hope this is one of those deals where both teams benefit.

***

Unrelated, I was not at all expecting a major deal involving core pieces. Glad to see it happen and glad to see some life injected into the board.

I have some reading to catch up on.

Edited March 7 by dudacek

[Rasmus_]

Perfectly said. Kevyn Adams is a moron.  

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Well, shoot. There goes my preseason prediction that Mitts would lead the team in points.

And there goes our best all-around center. On the other hand, his next contract was going to be more than an Efficient, Effective, and Economical front office was going to be willing to pay.

 

Let's go back to the 2019 scouting report:

        Kakko -- the K-Gun. More Ks to join UPL K^6.
        Turcotte -- sounds like a guy who would drive an AT-AT
        Byram -- sounds like a Rebel pilot
        Cozens -- sounds like an Imperial officer
        Zegras -- sounds like a bounty hunter
        Dach -- the excited young snowspeeder gunner!
        Pod -- "Now, this is Podkolzin!"
        Boldy -- "To boldy go where no one has... " wrong franchise.
        Krebs -- sounds like an Ewok 
        Cole Caufield -- sounds like a Tatooine farmer. I'm looking at you, Biggs Darklighter!

 

We've got a Rebel pilot, an Imperial officer, and an Ewok. We win!

He might still lead our forwards in scoring by seasons end 

[Believer]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Okie and Girgs

Adams hasn’t shown trade chops yet… Mitts for Byram is a start, if Byram stays healthy…

Will be impressed if he moves Samuelson while he has high value for a RH top 4 D in late 20’s… or Tuch for a 20+ goal scorer who plays a physical 200 ft game, likes to be at the net, and goes every game.

Show us what you got Adams. You sure sold Pegula… Show us you can sell Buffalo.