GDT / Winnipeg Jets @ Buffalo Sabres Sun. 3/3/24( MSG/ WGR Radio

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, SabresVet said:

The time these guys are on ice indicates Granato knows they're under some pressure to win now, albeit 50+ games into the season.  If they'd have played better in November and December they wouldn't be running Dahlin out there 28+ minutes per or playing a now-dependable UPL on back to back nights.  

This also hits at something I've had an issue with Adams about how he's rebuilt this roster.  They lack depth and 1 injury hurts them more than it should. 

Sure, Samuelsson is out, but it hurts more because recent signings like Clifton and E. Johnson (prior to his injury/sitting) weren't as reliable.  The guys who perform, like in job environments, get more work. 

Same goes for the goaltending.  Not entirely bad to have a guy (UPL) separate from the group, but the position has a lack of depth if they can't play the backup more.  

Not a long-term solution and points to them still needing better depth.    

The depth problem is real and it is directly related to Adams reliance on his young players, rather than bringing in vets and letting the youth develop in the AHL.  

Eric Johnson did not dress because he is likely to be traded soon.  If he is then Ryan Johnson will get more games and more minutes.   

Edited March 4 by Pimlach

[SwampD]

Just now, JohnC said:

Bowman made a prediction on him before he played in the league or just started off in the league. So what! Would the distinguished Bowman say that now? Of course not. You created a standard that no current analyst in the league would now say. Dahlin is an all-star caliber defenseman. He's not the best but he certainly is in the upper echelon. Your argument is a manufactured argument that no one other than the partisan fanatic would make. 

There were others at the time of his draft. And you are right, nobody would or should say that about him now. And I already said that isn’t even why he is frustrating to me.

There are plays where he is just lazy because he thinks he can get away with it. He doesn’t doesn’t have that next gear that you talked about with the Jets. At least I haven’t seen it.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Believer said:

That purposeful slash (couldn’t see who did it) was intended to intimidate or hurt Dahlin… It happened a couple minutes before the period ended… Have to believe Dahlin mentioned on the bench or in the locker room between periods… Yet, there was no retaliation by any Sabre at the start of the next period… If Dahlin told his teammates what happened a Sabre should have taken the guy out and dropped gloves…

Sure it was a close game, but you have to respond to that kind of cheap shot on a key player.

We need a few grown men with  stand up courage on this team. It can’t always be let go or fall to Clifton or a kid to respond.

If Dahlin said nothing and the team was unaware, I take back everything but the previous paragraph.

Do your job, Adams.

Their star player Scheifele did it.  

 

 

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Their star player Scheifele did it.  

 

 

We need vets like that who know how to get away with stuff like that to teach the young’ns.

[Broken Ankles]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well your Buddy from Buffalo, Patrick Kane, picked Detroit over Buffalo because they are further along on the rebuild this season. 

Why are they further?   Lots of experts think Buffalo has the better young players and the better prospect pool?  Detroit is further along this season because Yzerman has done this rebuild thing before - he has spent the last two seasons bringing in good veterans that have won before and want to win again.  He did this same thing in Tampa were he built a very strong team, and that core is still going today. 

Detroit is an original 6 team, their arena is loaded with Stanley Cup Banners, many of the greatest players ever have played there.  They are more of a destination than many teams in the league, especially now that they are rising again. 

Adams claims he has trouble getting UFAs and trading for players with NMCs.  Yzerman does not seem to have that problem, despite your claims.  

The only thing you said that I can agree with is the Sabres coaching staff has to be improved. 

A quote from Stevie Y early this season from a story the Athletic did on the Red Wings rebuild.

”You dress 20 players every night, and my feeling is I would rather go to the free agent market instead of hoping or forcing any of our young guys in,” Yzerman said in September. “Really, filling our roster, completing our roster not only this year but over the last couple years, with some of the free agents, is to be patient and allow these younger players to develop and play at a reasonable pace, instead of just throwing them into the NHL and hoping they’re OK and hoping we’re going to win games that way. When we’re 100 percent certain that they’re ready to play, or that they should be in the NHL and help us win games, they’ll be in the NHL. But until then, one, they have to earn it, and two, they have to be ready, in our judgment — be ready to play.”

KA must have been absent that day in GM school.  As he rushed Benson and others. 
 

To your other point, about veterans, SY got a group of UFA’s right about the same age - 26-30.  His free agent pick ups were not like EJ who is 36 in a few days. The Red wings did trade for an elder statesman (Jeff Petry) who’s father played for Tigers and was born and grew up in the area.  But SY got Montreal to retain 50% so Jeff’s AAV is not equal to Johnson. Petry seems to be handling the day to day load better as well with far more ATOI, games played, points and is an overall plus player for the year. 

[bunomatic]

16 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

A quote from Stevie Y early this season from a story the Athletic did on the Red Wings rebuild.

”You dress 20 players every night, and my feeling is I would rather go to the free agent market instead of hoping or forcing any of our young guys in,” Yzerman said in September. “Really, filling our roster, completing our roster not only this year but over the last couple years, with some of the free agents, is to be patient and allow these younger players to develop and play at a reasonable pace, instead of just throwing them into the NHL and hoping they’re OK and hoping we’re going to win games that way. When we’re 100 percent certain that they’re ready to play, or that they should be in the NHL and help us win games, they’ll be in the NHL. But until then, one, they have to earn it, and two, they have to be ready, in our judgment — be ready to play.”

KA must have been absent that day in GM school.  As he rushed Benson and others. 
 

To your other point, about veterans, SY got a group of UFA’s right about the same age - 26-30.  His free agent pick ups were not like EJ who is 36 in a few days. The Red wings did trade for an elder statesman (Jeff Petry) who’s father played for Tigers and was born and grew up in the area.  But SY got Montreal to retain 50% so Jeff’s AAV is not equal to Johnson. Petry seems to be handling the day to day load better as well with far more ATOI, games played, points and is an overall plus player for the year. 

Thanks for that quote. Steve knows how it works. KA not so much. Earning your spot has been how the kids have grown into their roles for a century in this league. KA prefers the ‘ don’t block the kids ‘ method. And we’ve seen the results.

[pi2000]

18 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

A quote from Stevie Y early this season from a story the Athletic did on the Red Wings rebuild.

”You dress 20 players every night, and my feeling is I would rather go to the free agent market instead of hoping or forcing any of our young guys in,” Yzerman said in September. “Really, filling our roster, completing our roster not only this year but over the last couple years, with some of the free agents, is to be patient and allow these younger players to develop and play at a reasonable pace, instead of just throwing them into the NHL and hoping they’re OK and hoping we’re going to win games that way. When we’re 100 percent certain that they’re ready to play, or that they should be in the NHL and help us win games, they’ll be in the NHL. But until then, one, they have to earn it, and two, they have to be ready, in our judgment — be ready to play.”

KA must have been absent that day in GM school.  As he rushed Benson and others. 
 

To your other point, about veterans, SY got a group of UFA’s right about the same age - 26-30.  His free agent pick ups were not like EJ who is 36 in a few days. The Red wings did trade for an elder statesman (Jeff Petry) who’s father played for Tigers and was born and grew up in the area.  But SY got Montreal to retain 50% so Jeff’s AAV is not equal to Johnson. Petry seems to be handling the day to day load better as well with far more ATOI, games played, points and is an overall plus player for the year. 

That plan only works if players want to be there and the team is not operating with a restrictive internal cap.

[SabresVet]

19 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

A quote from Stevie Y early this season from a story the Athletic did on the Red Wings rebuild.

”You dress 20 players every night, and my feeling is I would rather go to the free agent market instead of hoping or forcing any of our young guys in,” Yzerman said in September. “Really, filling our roster, completing our roster not only this year but over the last couple years, with some of the free agents, is to be patient and allow these younger players to develop and play at a reasonable pace, instead of just throwing them into the NHL and hoping they’re OK and hoping we’re going to win games that way. When we’re 100 percent certain that they’re ready to play, or that they should be in the NHL and help us win games, they’ll be in the NHL. But until then, one, they have to earn it, and two, they have to be ready, in our judgment — be ready to play.”

KA must have been absent that day in GM school.  As he rushed Benson and others. 
 

To your other point, about veterans, SY got a group of UFA’s right about the same age - 26-30.  His free agent pick ups were not like EJ who is 36 in a few days. The Red wings did trade for an elder statesman (Jeff Petry) who’s father played for Tigers and was born and grew up in the area.  But SY got Montreal to retain 50% so Jeff’s AAV is not equal to Johnson. Petry seems to be handling the day to day load better as well with far more ATOI, games played, points and is an overall plus player for the year. 

There's different ways to rebuild a team, but doing so on the cheap is exceptionally hard.  And that's what I think Adams had to contend with where Yzerman really didn't.  Looking at Detroit's spending, they haven't been much beneath 70M as a low point since 2020-21.  Adams was apparently only allowed to remain around the floor those first couple seasons.  Not surprising he went with the youth movement for that reason.    

And then, some bad decisions hurt their ability to improve, as you note, by prioritizing guys like EJ who, yeah, are leader veteran types for that locker room, but can't play the hockey they need.  Adams was overcompensating for the youth in that room with late-stage veterans because he had such a vacuum in leadership.

Bad decisions beget bad decisions. 

[mjd1001]

I've hit a strange spot with following the Sabres just in the last couple weeks. When they win, I'm on the board posting all the time, good things, bad things...just talking about the team in general. After a loss...they losses don't really bother me or get me upset that much, but I just kinda dont' feel like thinking about them much...at least until the next game.   Sure, its always like that to a certain extent, but win or lose, after a game I wanted to watch highlights, I wanted to talk about the game.....that has just changed in the past few weeks.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

This team is what it is until KA does what is needed to make us a hard to play against team. Last night was a case of physically wearing this team down with physicality and speed. Both that we seem to be lacking.  Unless we get a physical productive forward and a defensive beat the crap out of you defenseman, this team is going to continue to have some Issues. 

 

On the other hand, this team is playing better as of late. Again, another year of too little too late. Changes need to be made or heads need to roll. How many more years can we stay status quo??

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

That purposeful slash (couldn’t see who did it) was intended to intimidate or hurt Dahlin… It happened a couple minutes before the period ended… Have to believe Dahlin mentioned on the bench or in the locker room between periods… Yet, there was no retaliation by any Sabre at the start of the next period… If Dahlin told his teammates what happened a Sabre should have taken the guy out and dropped gloves…

Sure it was a close game, but you have to respond to that kind of cheap shot on a key player.

We need a few grown men with  stand up courage on this team. It can’t always be let go or fall to Clifton or a kid to respond.

If Dahlin said nothing and the team was unaware, I take back everything but the previous paragraph.

Do your job, Adams.

The Sabres didn’t need to retaliate, per se.  But they did need to respond.  That was an alpha moment by Schiff.  The Sabres could have (should have) come out buzzing, and making contact, and asserting themselves.

Im not saying that the slash and lack of response is the root cause of the loss.  I am saying that the mentality behind it is at least symptomatic though.

[Pimlach]

46 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That plan only works if players want to be there and the team is not operating with a restrictive internal cap.

If a UFA signs with them then they want to be there. 

[That Aud Smell]

52 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

KA prefers the ‘ don’t block the kids ‘ method. And we’ve seen the results.

I'm grateful for the Yzerman quote above. I now better understand - or can better articulate - why Adams' "don't block the kids" philosophy bothers me so much.

[phil_soisson]

12 hours ago, buffaloboy said:

Rumor Pegula might sell to wegmans family. You heard it here first. 

But, what about all that "One Buffalo" merch?

[thewookie1]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm grateful for the Yzerman quote above. I now better understand - or can better articulate - why Adams' "don't block the kids" philosophy bothers me so much.

It's a Catch-22 to be honest

Buffalo has/had an abundance of prospects over the years; each of which only have a certain number of years under control/ELCs and only so many of those can play in the ECHL and the AHL. In Benson's case he was in the terrible position of being a graduate of Juniors Hockey but being blocked from playing in Rochester where he more or less belonged. With his Juniors team moving and having a whole situation with the head coach they hired I can certainly understand why Buffalo wanted no part in that for Benson and likely Savoie as well hence the early season trade of Savoie.

Plus it does make logical sense that young players need experience in the NHL to truly become NHLers. However I do think location and brand does have a degree to do with Yzerman's plan versus Adams.

The Detroit Red Wings are an Original 6 Team, with multiple Cups to their name as well as the Captain of said recent Cup Teams as the GM. (Not to mention his success in Tampa) The city itself is likely in worse shape than Buffalo but likely has a bit more "entertainment" for younger players to take part in. If the Sabres and Red Wings were to offer identical contracts to UFAs, the likelihood is that they'll choose Detroit if not only on prestige alone. 

Adams entire strategy of bringing in players who want to be here is testament of that, he is trying to bring in players at fair rates who actually want to be in Buffalo so that they can spread positive vibes about the city around the league and eventually rehabilitate the city and team's image. Otherwise he is forced to pay extra just to bring in UFAs whom already get a premium due to the general UFA market. Effectively if Yzerman paid what looked to be overpayment for Copp and Compher, we are likely paying at least 500k or more each to bring them here. 

Simultaneously, two years ago we saw Quinn and Peterka tear up the AHL and get a promotion due to that. They had earned it by their play in the AHL; signing UFAs to "block" them would come across as disingenuous as its changing the finish line after the race is over. And while some say that shouldn't matter; it really does from a player standpoint. It may hurt us the fan and the overall team success in theory but makes our franchise out to be reliable partners to young players. Something Yzerman has the benefit of not exactly needing this due to the fact he can just use their Original 6 status to automatically create clout. 

Yzerman also had the benefit of multiple dynasty players bleeding into their roster's leadership. Zetterburg and Kromwell both played with Larkin. Adams had no such benefit to play off of. Although not dynastic in Cups, the last GM who had the chance to try and connect past to present was Botts with Pominville but he chose to replace him at first chance with a guy who had already spurned us once. Adams has tried to do that with Tuch via his personal fan connection with the past teams but there's a difference between a player who played on a team and a fan who grew up idolizing them. 

So to sum it up, Yzerman actually had an easier job than Adams has in regards to actually creating a "team"

 

 

I'm still bitter that Botts didn't re-sign Pominville and bring in Vanek during the COVID season. Neither were great by then but they could of been a solid 3rd line with a young Mitts and brought a degree of history to the team lineage. 

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Who has said that he is a generational player? Maybe some fanatic fan who is a delusional partisan has made that ridiculous claim?  The vast majority of normal fans have never categorized him as a player at a historical level. Let's just stop with making up stuff. Dahlin is arguably our best player who gets an overload of minutes. He is an all-star caliber of player. But trying to make an argument that he is a failure/disappointment because he hasn't attained the historical pinnacle of his profession is a manufactured and wasteful position to take. 

At the time Dahlin was drafted, he was branded in the media as a generational talent.  He was called the best defenseman prospect since Dennis Potvin.  This isn't something that I or anyone on this board made up.  That's what was being said at the time.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2018/03/27/rasmus-dahlin-sweepstakes-six-teams-need-him-most/463049002/

https://thehockeynews.com/news/thn-archive-sabres-top-d-man-dahlin-likened-to-swedish-star-forsberg

https://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/articles/article2.htm

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

If a UFA signs with them then they want to be there. 

Or they were overpaid because of the "Buffalo Tax".... KA won't overpay, unlike other GMs in the recent past.

[Rasmus_]

Eric Comrie is the worst back up the Sabres have employed in a decade.  WTF is this trash. 

[pi2000]

10 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

Eric Comrie is the worst back up the Sabres have employed in a decade.  WTF is this trash. 

The guys on the team like him tho, he's a really nice guy... and we all know that's more important than wins and losses.   

[That Aud Smell]

12 hours ago, buffaloboy said:

Rumor Pegula might sell to wegmans family. You heard it here first. 

[HOUSE]

This game was a fraud

[Flashsabre]

13 hours ago, buffaloboy said:

Rumor Pegula might sell to wegmans family. You heard it here first. 

Is this something real or are you just being funny?

[Stoner]

19 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Will ticket prices be low low low?

I saw that on the boards the other night. Are Wegmans prices really low?

I'd like to see that.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

At the time Dahlin was drafted, he was branded in the media as a generational talent.  He was called the best defenseman prospect since Dennis Potvin.  This isn't something that I or anyone on this board made up.  That's what was being said at the time.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2018/03/27/rasmus-dahlin-sweepstakes-six-teams-need-him-most/463049002/

https://thehockeynews.com/news/thn-archive-sabres-top-d-man-dahlin-likened-to-swedish-star-forsberg

https://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/articles/article2.htm

You have not read my posts carefully. Prior to the draft there were people who considered him to be a potential generational player. I don't know anyone who would say that now for this all-star defenseman. 

[SwampD]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You have not read my posts carefully. Prior to the draft there were people who considered him to be a potential generational player. I don't know anyone who would say that now for this all-star defenseman. 

So you are agreeing with me.