GDT / Winnipeg Jets @ Buffalo Sabres Sun. 3/3/24( MSG/ WGR Radio

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, SwampD said:

So you are agreeing with me.

There were some draft analysts who considered him to be generational. You cited Bowman as an example. What I have been saying is that he is not, although he is an all-star. Based on his play he is probably our best player who is an upper echelon defenseman. He is not a generational player and shouldn't be judged by those standards.  Crosby and McDavid are generational players. Dahlin is good but not at that historical level.   

[SwampD]

Just now, JohnC said:

There were some draft analysts who considered him to be generational. You cited Bowman as an example. What I have been saying is that he is not, although he is an all-star. Based on his play he is probably our best player who is an upper echelon defenseman. He is not a generational player and shouldn't be judged by those standards.  Crosby and McDavid are generational players. Dahlin is good but not at that historical level.   

Since you can't get past this pedantry, let me add some of my own. I originally said "he is supposed to be elite..." You fall into the category who believes that, "generational to some..." You are not one of them, but they are still out there.

My original statement stands and was not a ridiculous reach to be dramatic.

I'm done.

Dahlin should be better than he is and it's frustrating to watch.

[Broken Ankles]

3 hours ago, SabresVet said:

There's different ways to rebuild a team, but doing so on the cheap is exceptionally hard.  And that's what I think Adams had to contend with where Yzerman really didn't.  Looking at Detroit's spending, they haven't been much beneath 70M as a low point since 2020-21.  Adams was apparently only allowed to remain around the floor those first couple seasons.  Not surprising he went with the youth movement for that reason.    

And then, some bad decisions hurt their ability to improve, as you note, by prioritizing guys like EJ who, yeah, are leader veteran types for that locker room, but can't play the hockey they need.  Adams was overcompensating for the youth in that room with late-stage veterans because he had such a vacuum in leadership.

Bad decisions beget bad decisions. 

I know we agree for the most part and the bold is a valid concern but not that much.  What is the delta in roster and buried cap Buffalo compared to Detroit?  Less than $2M.  What about comparison of Salary Cap - Just over $5M.   This according to Cap Friendly.   And while $5M is nothing to sneeze at, KA must own the poor decisions that allowed him to reach his "Cap restriction" (if this truly exists) at $75.5M.  

Examples

•  Decision to give Cozens a long term deal - could have been given a bridge deal and saved them $3-4M this year and next. 
• Ibid - Mule/Samuelsson  - Could have saved $2M AAV toward other free agents by bridging. 
• $8.6M to Vets like Kyle, Robinson, Zemgus, and Jost.  Look at 4th line guys on other teams - ie Vancouver. 
• Petry vs Erik Johnson - From a cap perspective Jeff is over $600k cheaper and it cost Detroit a 4th and a prospect. 
• Olofsson making $4.75M and playing what half of this seasons games? 
• Eric Comrie  - $1.8M AAV and part of the three headed monster.

   If we agree that without these signings, a Sabres GM could use $15M on other  players, including a true middle six winger (Compher/Perron) to take the place of Benson, a true 1B or #2 back up goalie to share the net with UPL (instead of Levi or Comrie, and allow Levi to start the year in Rochester). Leaving you another $6-8M on another bottom six forwards or #5/6 Defensemen (could have been via UFA or trade).  All staying within the same "cap number" as they have today.  Adams owns the results of what those bullet points/decisions brought.  

[Thorner]

Lol edited for brevity ie “deleted” since all my posts were lumped into one indiscriminate mass of text at the top of the page out of context 

Have at it 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

I know we agree for the most part and the bold is a valid concern but not that much.  What is the delta in roster and buried cap Buffalo compared to Detroit?  Less than $2M.  What about comparison of Salary Cap - Just over $5M.   This according to Cap Friendly.   And while $5M is nothing to sneeze at, KA must own the poor decisions that allowed him to reach his "Cap restriction" (if this truly exists) at $75.5M.  

Examples

•  Decision to give Cozens a long term deal - could have been given a bridge deal and saved them $3-4M this year and next. 
• Ibid - Mule/Samuelsson  - Could have saved $2M AAV toward other free agents by bridging. 
• $8.6M to Vets like Kyle, Robinson, Zemgus, and Jost.  Look at 4th line guys on other teams - ie Vancouver. 
• Petry vs Erik Johnson - From a cap perspective Jeff is over $600k cheaper and it cost Detroit a 4th and a prospect. 
• Olofsson making $4.75M and playing what half of this seasons games? 
• Eric Comrie  - $1.8M AAV and part of the three headed monster.

   If we agree that without these signings, a Sabres GM could use $15M on other  players, including a true middle six winger (Compher/Perron) to take the place of Benson, a true 1B or #2 back up goalie to share the net with UPL (instead of Levi or Comrie, and allow Levi to start the year in Rochester). Leaving you another $6-8M on another bottom six forwards or #5/6 Defensemen (could have been via UFA or trade).  All staying within the same "cap number" as they have today.  Adams owns the results of what those bullet points/decisions brought.  

Cozens will be fine so I'm not at all angered by his contract.

Muel's was a bit overkill but its nothing to end the world over.

Convincing vets to come here and stay seems to be very difficult.

I'd suspect Petry wanted Detroit specifically due to his ties to the area

Olofsson never seemed to get any bidders so we are just kinda stuck with him.

If he were a good or average backup the contract would be fine. 

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

It's a Catch-22 to be honest

Buffalo has/had an abundance of prospects over the years; each of which only have a certain number of years under control/ELCs and only so many of those can play in the ECHL and the AHL. In Benson's case he was in the terrible position of being a graduate of Juniors Hockey but being blocked from playing in Rochester where he more or less belonged. With his Juniors team moving and having a whole situation with the head coach they hired I can certainly understand why Buffalo wanted no part in that for Benson and likely Savoie as well hence the early season trade of Savoie.

Plus it does make logical sense that young players need experience in the NHL to truly become NHLers. However I do think location and brand does have a degree to do with Yzerman's plan versus Adams.

The Detroit Red Wings are an Original 6 Team, with multiple Cups to their name as well as the Captain of said recent Cup Teams as the GM. (Not to mention his success in Tampa) The city itself is likely in worse shape than Buffalo but likely has a bit more "entertainment" for younger players to take part in. If the Sabres and Red Wings were to offer identical contracts to UFAs, the likelihood is that they'll choose Detroit if not only on prestige alone. 

Adams entire strategy of bringing in players who want to be here is testament of that, he is trying to bring in players at fair rates who actually want to be in Buffalo so that they can spread positive vibes about the city around the league and eventually rehabilitate the city and team's image. Otherwise he is forced to pay extra just to bring in UFAs whom already get a premium due to the general UFA market. Effectively if Yzerman paid what looked to be overpayment for Copp and Compher, we are likely paying at least 500k or more each to bring them here. 

Simultaneously, two years ago we saw Quinn and Peterka tear up the AHL and get a promotion due to that. They had earned it by their play in the AHL; signing UFAs to "block" them would come across as disingenuous as its changing the finish line after the race is over. And while some say that shouldn't matter; it really does from a player standpoint. It may hurt us the fan and the overall team success in theory but makes our franchise out to be reliable partners to young players. Something Yzerman has the benefit of not exactly needing this due to the fact he can just use their Original 6 status to automatically create clout. 

Yzerman also had the benefit of multiple dynasty players bleeding into their roster's leadership. Zetterburg and Kromwell both played with Larkin. Adams had no such benefit to play off of. Although not dynastic in Cups, the last GM who had the chance to try and connect past to present was Botts with Pominville but he chose to replace him at first chance with a guy who had already spurned us once. Adams has tried to do that with Tuch via his personal fan connection with the past teams but there's a difference between a player who played on a team and a fan who grew up idolizing them. 

So to sum it up, Yzerman actually had an easier job than Adams has in regards to actually creating a "team"

 

 

I'm still bitter that Botts didn't re-sign Pominville and bring in Vanek during the COVID season. Neither were great by then but they could have been a solid 3rd line with a young Mitts and brought a degree of history to the team lineage. 

I am not defending KA here because I am disappointed with the job he has done, especially last summer.

I am a little miffed at all of the support for the Yzerplan. He is getting praise for turning the Red Wings around and likely making the playoffs. He has been GM there for 5 years. If it takes a “great” GM 5 years then maybe it is harder than we think.

As others have pointed out, other teams’ rebuilds or retools take a lot less time than KA has taken. I just take issue with praising another guy that took 5 years to make the playoffs.

Stevie Y made some good moves. Debrincat, Kane, Compher, Wallman, Gostisbehere and Sprong were good signings and trades. He also made some poor moves, Chiarot, Mantha, Vrana, Holl, Reimer, Husso and his handling of Zadina were not stellar transactions.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Will ticket prices be low low low?

I saw that on the boards the other night. Are Wegmans prices really low?

I'd like to see that.

It's called puffery.

[Stoner]

8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It's called puffery.

And they're up to $18.99 a dozen. I can't.

[Flashsabre]

Are there really whispers out there about Pegula and Wegmans or are people just joking around?

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Are there really whispers out there about Pegula and Wegmans or are people just joking around?

One whisper.

The family IS filthy rich.

[SabresVet]

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

I know we agree for the most part and the bold is a valid concern but not that much.  What is the delta in roster and buried cap Buffalo compared to Detroit?  Less than $2M.  What about comparison of Salary Cap - Just over $5M.   This according to Cap Friendly.   And while $5M is nothing to sneeze at, KA must own the poor decisions that allowed him to reach his "Cap restriction" (if this truly exists) at $75.5M.  

Examples

•  Decision to give Cozens a long term deal - could have been given a bridge deal and saved them $3-4M this year and next. 
• Ibid - Mule/Samuelsson  - Could have saved $2M AAV toward other free agents by bridging. 
• $8.6M to Vets like Kyle, Robinson, Zemgus, and Jost.  Look at 4th line guys on other teams - ie Vancouver. 
• Petry vs Erik Johnson - From a cap perspective Jeff is over $600k cheaper and it cost Detroit a 4th and a prospect. 
• Olofsson making $4.75M and playing what half of this seasons games? 
• Eric Comrie  - $1.8M AAV and part of the three headed monster.

   If we agree that without these signings, a Sabres GM could use $15M on other  players, including a true middle six winger (Compher/Perron) to take the place of Benson, a true 1B or #2 back up goalie to share the net with UPL (instead of Levi or Comrie, and allow Levi to start the year in Rochester). Leaving you another $6-8M on another bottom six forwards or #5/6 Defensemen (could have been via UFA or trade).  All staying within the same "cap number" as they have today.  Adams owns the results of what those bullet points/decisions brought.  

Yeah, Detroit's spending isn't that much in front of Buffalo's these last 3 seasons.  Spotrac had Buffalo minus 18M total over the last 3 seasons.  Comes down to being efficient with cap dollars and making strategic decisions with players.  I think Adams got nervous with young talent seeing Reinhart leave without a long-term plan in plate.  And he wanted to send a message to keep home-grown guys here.  Good initiative, not as good judgment on those Cozens/Samuelsson long-term deals. 

GM's have to fail forward and, in the NFL with non-guaranteed contracts that's easier to do.  Agree on all points...and when a NHL GM makes a mistake, they own it for the life of that contract. 

[bob_sauve28]

20 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Back and to the right...

Which is impossible! There had to be a second shooter. Like over by the brassy goal

[buffaloboy]

7 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Is this something real or are you just being funny?

Nope not being funny at all I talked to someone I trust who works for the organization and he isn’t the type to make stuff up. So take it for what you will. 

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Cozens will be fine so I'm not at all angered by his contract.

Muel's was a bit overkill but its nothing to end the world over.

Convincing vets to come here and stay seems to be very difficult.

I'd suspect Petry wanted Detroit specifically due to his ties to the area

Olofsson never seemed to get any bidders so we are just kinda stuck with him.

If he were a good or average backup the contract would be fine. 

  You're missing my point.  My point is simply that if there was a self imposed cap that was ~$8M less than the actual Cap (b/c Terry needs another 'Yacht to waterski behind' ), then Adams is to blame for the extensions in the immediate.  I hope the Cozens long term deal looks great in 4-5 years when the Sabres are playing meaningful games in June.   But right now it looks like shite;  Same with Mule.  And if I'm a GM in the hot seat, then I'm not giving long term extensions to multiple players, especially if I need to shore up other areas of concern in the short term and I have a cap restraint.  

You seem to be willing to give Adam an awful lot of passes, too. Like it's hard to get a vet to play here.  Ok - then find the right one and overpay, but make it meaningful.  Can't trade Olofsson?  Anyone can be traded.  Change of scenery exchange with another team might have worked. If not, would Adams have had to retain salary?  Probably, but that's his penance for signing that deal in the first place.   Comrie - If he were good to average it would be fine? ....and if my Aunt had nuts, she would be my uncle (can I still say that?).  What about the #10-13 wingers for $9M?   You could say KO was a bargain at $2.5M on his own but we have already questioned whether or not he contributed negatively in Salute-gate - so that takes away some of the luster of his deal.  

  I'm not willing to give excuses for any of these errors.  

 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, buffaloboy said:

Nope not being funny at all I talked to someone I trust who works for the organization and he isn’t the type to make stuff up. So take it for what you will. 

It would be exciting. Pegula is 0 for 13 for playoffs in his ownership tenure. New owners who would be open established, successful hockey people in the FO and behind the bench would be such a welcome change.

[Getpucksdeep]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

One whisper.

The family IS filthy rich.

And they are very invested in hockey.
https://www.whec.com/top-news/rochester-jr-amerks-to-play-inaugural-season-in-2023-24/

I just watched that Danbury Trashers thing on Netflix....maybe like that?  Kidding! But I think their son that plays is probably high school age now.

Edited March 5 by Getpucksdeep
wrong there/their smh

[Stoner]

Just now, Getpucksdeep said:

And they are very invested in hockey.
https://www.whec.com/top-news/rochester-jr-amerks-to-play-inaugural-season-in-2023-24/

I just watched that Danbury Trashers thing on Netflix....maybe like that?  Kidding! But I think there son that plays is probably high school age now.

Interesting.

Dear God, I don't ask for much...