Sabres Have The No.1 Prospect Group - The Athletic

[DarthEbriate]

34 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Totally agree that we are not a small team by any standards...problem is we PLAY small. Basically we have no one whio really plays BIG and bangs in the corners. Sure wish we had Marcus back...

You want the next Foligno, not the one whose 4x$4M extension kicks in next season at age 33. Plus, he has a NMC and would likely only waive it to be traded to a contender and not a perpetual rebuild.

Besides, you know Marcus. He got lost once in his own museum.

[matter2003]

44 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Totally agree that we are not a small team by any standards...problem is we PLAY small. Basically we have no one whio really plays BIG and bangs in the corners. Sure wish we had Marcus back...

I'd say it's more a problem of consistency.  There are certainly games where they do actually do that. The problem is they aren't seemingly willing to do it night in and night out. Or at least the majority of the time.  I'd say right now, it's maybe 15-30% of the time.  That being said, it isn't a requirement to be good...

Sabres average 20.12 hits per game, Avalanche 20.20 and Hurricanes 17.42...doesn't seem to hurt them.

Edited February 29 by matter2003

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

What website are you looking at because almost NONE of these are correct. Hell the Amerks webpage lists Kulich at 3 inches taller and 16lbs heavier. Kisakov is wrong, Savoie is wrong. Östlund is close at least. Rosen is wrong, Kulich is wrong. HEY! Neuchev is right! nice. 

This is why I hate it around here. Everyone is too lazy to do simple things like check a players size. *****, Zach Benson measured just under 5'10" at the combine and the Sabres have always listed him as 5'10" as does NHL.com and EP. In fact the only place I can find listing him at 5'9" is hockey db. 

Just say you went to HockeyDB and move on. 

Actually they were taken from the players current teams’ website.  For example, the  Amerks roster page list Kulich at 5’10 170 just like I posted. So sure you know better.  

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

This is sort of the way the league is set up. For teams that are bad for extended periods of time to have a better prospect pool than teams that are good. 

It certainly isn't a hard and fast rule:

- The 5 best prospect pools are Buffalo, Columbus, Detroit, Anaheim, and San Jose. 
- The 5 worst prospect pools are Islanders, Ottawa, Boston, Tampa, and Toronto. 

Detroit should be pumped. Ottawa should be scared. Everybody else are sort of where they are supposed to be. 

Ottawa is very interesting to me.  I really thought they would be the team to take the biggest jump between Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit.

-Stutzle has regressed in terms of production (Tage level regression)  Was almost a 40 goal, 90 point guy last year in his 3rd season at age 20-21. This year in season 4, he is on pace for high teens/maybe 20 goals.  Big drop.

-Giroux had 35 for them last year. Is on pace for about 10 less, age might be catching up with him.

-Tkachuk is just as productive (more goals, less assists) but why were there rumors of him having an issue with maturity?

-Chychrun has been a bit of a disappointment. They are getting 'good' overall play from him but I think they expected 'great' play.

-Jake Sanderson. He's playing 'good' from what I can see and what  I hear, but I think they were expecting him to take a big jump to being a legit top 30 d-man in the league. He's good, but not that good.

-Chabot is a really good D-man, I don't think he gets credit for how good he is, but he has missed a lot of games for them.

Ottawa is facing a lot of the same issues Buffalo is....top star regression in terms of goals scored, young D-men not taking as big of a step as you want, and injuries to key player(s).    The thing is they don't have a lot of potential high-end talent in the pipeline:

-They have had no first round picks the last 2 seasons. Every other first round pick in the past decade is either already on the team, or looks like a bust (Thompson, Boucher)

-Add to that they have big time cap issues....this is a team that TRULY needs development from within, even more than the Sabres.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Mr Peabody said:

I’d characterize our prospect pool as wide and flat rather than deep.  A large amount of the same type of player at forward - so much so you couldn’t build a balanced NHL team. 

I don't like trading top prospects. Yeah, I know MOST don't turn out to be stars, but each of them are lottery tickets. If you trade most or all of your tickets, you aren't going to win.  With that said...the Sabres have SO many top pick forwards, if you can spin/turn them into a really good D-man in his mid to late 20's...I'll do it.

[RETURNTOGLORY]

And we still SUCK!!!

[inkman]

14 minutes ago, RETURNTOGLORY said:

And we still SUCK!!!

And we will for the next 7 years will gutless pukes as our core.  Yay Sabres! 

[pi2000]

7 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

It's been so great reading this exact same article for the past 8 years. 

Patience is bitter, but it's fruit is sweet.

[DarthEbriate]

There's definitely a theme to their current top 8 forward prospects (listed in the article) in terms of body build and only one is above average height/weight for a NHL forward.

I'll take Savoie, but I'll take a different track on it.

5-9 179# -- 2022 Draft day listing
5-9 170# -- 2022 Sabres Dev Camp
5-9 170# -- 2022 Sabres Training Camp
5-9 179# -- 2022 Winnipeg ICE Preseason roster
5-9 170# -- 2023 Sabres Prospects Challenge
unlisted   -- 2023 Sabres Dev Camp Roster (a month later)
5-10 170# -- 2023 Sabres Training Camp Roster (couple weeks later...now he's taller!)
5-10 176# -- 2023-24 Moose Jaw Roster
5-10 179# -- Elite Prospects
5-9 179# -- Hockey Reference
5-9 179# -- Hockeydb 

[Carmel Corn]

3 hours ago, Mr Peabody said:

I’d characterize our prospect pool as wide and flat rather than deep.  A large amount of the same type of player at forward - so much so you couldn’t build a balanced NHL team. 

Wash, rinse and repeat....Buffalo's scouting and drafting strategy (only small forwards without grit need to apply).  No room for bigger prospects who play heavy or have a mean streak edge to their games.

Edited February 29 by Carmel Corn

[klos1963]

23 hours ago, Marvin said:

Raw size is not everything.  Mike Peca played big even though he was well under 6' tall.  Whom do we have coming up that plays big?

He was 5'11", but I get your point.

[klos1963]

If our top prospect is Benson, who goes 15 games between points, how much or how soon can we expect anything out of this group?

[Stoner]

22 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

If our top prospect is Benson, who goes 15 games between points, how much or how soon can we expect anything out of this group?

I mean, the whole season rested on the shoulders of a kid who had scored 14 NHL goals, so...

(And the season was over before it started according to some when he got hurt last summer.)

[Pimlach]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:36 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/5297202/2024/02/29/sabres-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-2024/

Apparently we still have a deep and talanted prospect group.  
 

1. Benson - small all around forward.  Top line potential.

2. Savoie - small all around forward. Speedy with top 6 potential 

3. Kulich - 2 way goal scoring forward. 25 goal+ potential.

4. Levi - small and athletic goalie. Starting NHL potential. 

5. Östlund - small 2 way playmaking forward. Top 6-9 potential but needs another 20lbs.

6. Rosen - Mitts type forward.  Top 9 potential. Also needs to add more lbs.  

7. Novikov -  Big D with improving O game.  Solid 3rd pair potential.

8. Johnson - Steady D and great skater, but not much offense.  4-6 NHL D. 

9. Wahlberg - Big forward who skates well and creates offense.  Top 6 already in the SHL.  Has an NHL futures but still needs more development.

10. Strbak - Strong physical D who also has a good stick.  

11. Neuchev - small talented offensive forward.  (Stop me if you have read this before). Needs time to develop. 

12. Ratzlaff - small athletic goalie.  

13. Komarov - Big 2-way D who has developed offensively.  May lead the Q in D scoring.  Wheeler thinks he will play some in the NHL. 

14. Kisakov - small offensive forward.  Hasn’t progressed as quickly as others.

15. McCarthy - solid defenseman who needs to refine his game to have a shot at the NHL. 

IMHO - Conclusions:  Way to many smaller forwards.  Love all the big D and think Komarov is much to low in the rankings.  I might place him as high as 10th.  Like the respect Novikov’s game is getting. 

Östlund is in some ways the key prospect in this group, since he is the only true playmaker.  If he adds the necessary muscle, his all around game is Bergeron style, as he can play both special teams, win draws, clear the D zone and drive offense.  He and Wahlberg are only pure centers. 

The big questions:  Are any of these guys elite talents? Can these guys elevate the Sabres to Cup contention, or this just another wave of the same? 

 

15 players - a few will be good players, many will not.

7 small

3 big

1 strong, 1 solid, and 1 steady. 

When will  we trade some of this "wealth" for players that get help us win now?  

 

 

[Stoner]

Just now, Pimlach said:

15 players - a few will be good players, many will not.

7 small

3 big

1 strong, 1 solid, and 1 steady. 

When will  we trade some of this "wealth" for players that get help us win now?  

 

 

I think the time is now/this summer. KA knows he has squeezed as much longevity out of the situation as he can. He knows he won't survive another year like this. I expect him to pull a Don Granato bench splash soon.

[Sidc3000]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:46 AM, TheAud said:

It should be a great place for the Sabres to be relative to moving 2-4 of the top 12 or so in deals for actual NHL players. This is needed to augment the younger guys (Power, Benson, Cozens, Quinn, JPP, Krebs, R. Johnson) who appear to be NHL players but don't know the way to sustained excellence yet. 

Will Adams be willing to part with any of his precious prospects? Aside from Benson, and maybe Levi, these guys are all still more or less lottery tickets as opposed to sure things. 

It’s not necessarily if Adams wants to part with the prospects. You have to have players/teams willing to partner with the Sabres. As we seen with Kane and now Tanev, players don’t want to come to Buffalo. I would guess that is the wall Adams keeps running into vs him not willing to part with players 

Edited March 1 by Sidc3000

[DarthEbriate]

16 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

It’s not necessarily if Adams wants to part with the prospects. You have to have players/teams willing to partner with the Sabres. As we seen with Kane and now Tanev, players don’t want to come to Buffalo. I would guess that is the wall Adams keeps running into vs him not willing to part with players 

Kane, Tanev, even second-rate veteran goalies like Matt Murray last season.

It's just the cycle of lack of accountability within the franchise's ownership and front office. GM Sheevyn can cry about players wanting to be here. But this is a franchise that willingly tanked (and rushed prospects/gutted their farm system, too, to make that happen). First, they fired a GM for being there too long and being reasonable with the directive to tank, then they fired a GM for being daft, then fired a GM for not being willing to fire his AHL staff to save money, then hired a GM who'd been... a guy they liked.) And each GM says: "Give me my rebuild timeline to get the players I want." Through all that they've tanked again and hired "hockey university" coaches and cheap re-treads, and Krueger who defies all categories but talks a good sales pitch. They've done it to themselves. Darth Pegulas (the Wise) is paying the price for his lack of vision.

What self-respecting player who wants to win wouldn't have Buffalo on their no-trade list?

(And all that can change in a season if they stop churning GMs and make 2 or 3 intelligent moves in the staff and roster and make the playoffs.)

Edited March 1 by DarthEbriate

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, klos1963 said:

He was 5'11", but I get your point.

I ran into him shopping.  5' 10" or even a hair less seemed more likely.  Memory fades...

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I think the time is now/this summer. KA knows he has squeezed as much longevity out of the situation as he can. He knows he won't survive another year like this. I expect him to pull a Don Granato bench splash soon.

 You are expecting action? 

It was just released that Tanev turned down a trade to Buffalo?  It will be an interesting off season, fans are expecting some line up changes. 

[Demoted]

On 2/29/2024 at 10:20 AM, Buffalonill said:

It feels like we always have the number one prospect group. Yet, we haven't seen the playoffs in a decade

It's b.c the Sabres prospect group is a farm team for other NHL teams. 

[inkman]

27 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I ran into him shopping.  5' 10" or even a hair less seemed more likely.  Memory fades...

Every hockey player’s height is measured with their skates on.  Their actual heights are two inches shorter than the listed heights.  

[Sidc3000]

35 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 You are expecting action? 

It was just released that Tanev turned down a trade to Buffalo?  It will be an interesting off season, fans are expecting some line up changes. 

It will be hard when no one wants to come here

46 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Kane, Tanev, even second-rate veteran goalies like Matt Murray last season.

It's just the cycle of lack of accountability within the franchise's ownership and front office. GM Sheevyn can cry about players wanting to be here. But this is a franchise that willingly tanked (and rushed prospects/gutted their farm system, too, to make that happen). First, they fired a GM for being there too long and being reasonable with the directive to tank, then they fired a GM for being daft, then fired a GM for not being willing to fire his AHL staff to save money, then hired a GM who'd been... a guy they liked.) And each GM says: "Give me my rebuild timeline to get the players I want." Through all that they've tanked again and hired "hockey university" coaches and cheap re-treads, and Krueger who defies all categories but talks a good sales pitch. They've done it to themselves. Darth Pegulas (the Wise) is paying the price for his lack of vision.

What self-respecting player who wants to win wouldn't have Buffalo on their no-trade list?

(And all that can change in a season if they stop churning GMs and make 2 or 3 intelligent moves in the staff and roster and make the playoffs.)

Yep.  A lot will have to happen to convince good players to come to Buffalo. 

[Doohicksie]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:49 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

Rosen is like Mitts? I don't see that. Mitts is a bull, Rosen looks more like a slick skating forward with speed and quickness 

Mitts as a prospect was more like Rosen is now.

[SabreFinn]

47 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

It will be hard when no one wants to come here

Yep.  A lot will have to happen to convince good players to come to Buffalo. 

Money talks! We have to pay more to compensate for their long vacation. That only happens in sports.

[CallawaySabres]

I know Reinhart had zero chance of staying but man, I really liked him. Levi better prove to be a 1B starter in this league. Who did we get with that 1st round pick again?