KBC Renovations Update

[PromoTheRobot]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:26 AM, pi2000 said:

of all the possible upgrades... a new roof?

what's wrong with the current roof?

When was the last time you replaced your roof? If it's more than 30 years your taking chances. My insurance company told me if I didn't replace my 30 year old roof they wouldn't cover any water damage from a leak.

[spndnchz]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

When was the last time you replaced your roof? If it's more than 30 years your taking chances. My insurance company told me if I didn't replace my 30 year old roof they wouldn't cover any water damage from a leak.

Yup. It’s already leaking into the 300’s. Time to retire it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

 

[Taro T]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:38 PM, Mango said:

I think part of the reason the acoustics are being looked at is because of the new jumbotron. Not so much a "convenience" thing. But more so even if they keep the same exact audio gear in place it likely has to be repositioned which will change the arena sound. Similarly if they upgrade the audio system as well. Either way everything would need to be more or less recalibrated. 

That could be part of why the acoustics are being revamped.  A (IMHO) bigger part of it is that people sitting in certain spots in the rink literally need to bring ear plugs to keep from leaving the building with ringing ears and in other parts can't hear the announcements at all clearly.  It is amazing how much variability there is in the volume and quality of the sound throughout.

Don't care about the new scoreboard, but am looking very hopefully to having the acoustics at least upgraded if not outright fixed.

[Big Guava]

On 3/9/2024 at 12:04 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

When was the last time you replaced your roof? If it's more than 30 years your taking chances. My insurance company told me if I didn't replace my 30 year old roof they wouldn't cover any water damage from a leak.

Their roof is likely made of much different material than yours.

[Pimlach]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:58 PM, mjd1001 said:

Wow, so much here. I'd have no idea how to respond to this post...with a like, a dislike, laughing, thanks, Eyeroll....I can 100% get besides some of your post and totally disagree with others.  I have to think about this for a while...

That came from a bot. 

[Night Train]

10 hours ago, Big Guava said:

Their roof is likely made of much different material than yours.

straw

[Drag0nDan]

These are fine improvements.  But they're a long ways away from having a solid arena.  In no particular order

• 300 concourses are insanely tiny
• Everything feels really dated
• Uncomfortable seats that rattle and are barely bolted down
• Cupholders that don't fit literally any beverage that you sell
• The bottom bleacher rows aren't even flush with the boards so you could very easily drop a phone under them
• Feels really steep at the top rows for whatever reason
• Food options are... fine?  
• Bathrooms need... help.  
• The whole place just feels soulless.  Paint and new lighting would go a long way to improvement.  It just feels sooooo minor league.  

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

These are fine improvements.  But they're a long ways away from having a solid arena.  In no particular order

• 300 concourses are insanely tiny
• Everything feels really dated
• Uncomfortable seats that rattle and are barely bolted down
• Cupholders that don't fit literally any beverage that you sell
• The bottom bleacher rows aren't even flush with the boards so you could very easily drop a phone under them
• Feels really steep at the top rows for whatever reason
• Food options are... fine?  
• Bathrooms need... help.  
• The whole place just feels soulless.  Paint and new lighting would go a long way to improvement.  It just feels sooooo minor league.  

300 level concourses are insanely tiny, so the events staff place trash cans and recycling bins at the end of the stanchions under the stands to restirct them even further.  Genius.

They have been asked to not place them there and on occassion have moved them.  But then the ushers complain that people "can't find them and leave their trash everywhere."  Bullspit.  There is a can or recycle bin literally at every stanchion.  It isn't hard to "find" one.  And if that really were the reason, they could be placed so that they stick out past the stanchion by 4"-6" so people could "see" them, but it would still free up at least 24" of prime walking space.  This stupid can placement makes it very difficult to get around in the 300's at the 1st intermission as the vast majority of the 300's empty into the concourse during that intermission.

Heck of a job, Quinny; heck of a job.  (Though he's the idiot that was fine with the stupidly narrow concourses (which are wider than what was there behind the blues in the Aud, which isn't saying much.  The hallway in our tiny house is probably larger than they were over near the bathroom by the Aud Club entrance.) at least he isn't the idiot telling them to keep restricting pedestrian flow even further.  But still, a chance for a pot shot at that tool, when provided should and must be taken.)

[...]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

That could be part of why the acoustics are being revamped.  A (IMHO) bigger part of it is that people sitting in certain spots in the rink literally need to bring ear plugs to keep from leaving the building with ringing ears and in other parts can't hear the announcements at all clearly.  It is amazing how much variability there is in the volume and quality of the sound throughout.

Don't care about the new scoreboard, but am looking very hopefully to having the acoustics at least upgraded if not outright fixed.

The acoustics in that arena are ridiculously bad. You summarized most of the problems. I would just add that whomever was responsible for designing and calibrating the old system must have a hearing range of 500hz-2.5khz - all mid-range.

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

300 level concourses are insanely tiny, so the events staff place trash cans and recycling bins at the end of the stanchions under the stands to restirct them even further.  Genius.

They have been asked to not place them there and on occassion have moved them.  But then the ushers complain that people "can't find them and leave their trash everywhere."  Bullspit.  There is a can or recycle bin literally at every stanchion.  It isn't hard to "find" one.  And if that really were the reason, they could be placed so that they stick out past the stanchion by 4"-6" so people could "see" them, but it would still free up at least 24" of prime walking space.  This stupid can placement makes it very difficult to get around in the 300's at the 1st intermission as the vast majority of the 300's empty into the concourse during that intermission.

Heck of a job, Quinny; heck of a job.  (Though he's the idiot that was fine with the stupidly narrow concourses (which are wider than what was there behind the blues in the Aud, which isn't saying much.  The hallway in our tiny house is probably larger than they were over near the bathroom by the Aud Club entrance.) at least he isn't the idiot telling them to keep restricting pedestrian flow even further.  But still, a chance for a pot shot at that tool, when provided should and must be taken.)

Its way more noticeable when you have like concerts or events that actually fill the 300s too.  I find the first stairwell out of there usually just because its insanely crowded on the walk to the escalator.  

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

300 level concourses are insanely tiny, so the events staff place trash cans and recycling bins at the end of the stanchions under the stands to restirct them even further.  Genius.

They have been asked to not place them there and on occassion have moved them.  But then the ushers complain that people "can't find them and leave their trash everywhere."  Bullspit.  There is a can or recycle bin literally at every stanchion.  It isn't hard to "find" one.  And if that really were the reason, they could be placed so that they stick out past the stanchion by 4"-6" so people could "see" them, but it would still free up at least 24" of prime walking space.  This stupid can placement makes it very difficult to get around in the 300's at the 1st intermission as the vast majority of the 300's empty into the concourse during that intermission.

Heck of a job, Quinny; heck of a job.  (Though he's the idiot that was fine with the stupidly narrow concourses (which are wider than what was there behind the blues in the Aud, which isn't saying much.  The hallway in our tiny house is probably larger than they were over near the bathroom by the Aud Club entrance.) at least he isn't the idiot telling them to keep restricting pedestrian flow even further.  But still, a chance for a pot shot at that tool, when provided should and must be taken.)

Larry Quinn built Marine Midland Arena (its original name) as cheaply as possible. A couple extra mil and some forward thinking would have had them make the most of their footprint vertically.

[thewookie1]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Larry Quinn built Marine Midland Arena (its original name) as cheaply as possible. A couple extra mil and some forward thinking would have had them make the most of their footprint vertically.

It was cheap but incredible engineering on a budget.

[Taro T]

44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Larry Quinn built Marine Midland Arena (its original name) as cheaply as possible. A couple extra mil and some forward thinking would have had them make the most of their footprint vertically.

 

31 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

It was cheap but incredible engineering on a budget.

It was the EXACT same building as the Staples Center in LA except instead of having only 1 level of box seats between the 200's and 300's there were 3 levels of box seats there.  Which is likely a big part of why the roof is so high above the seats.  The building could've held more boxes, but there would be no way to sell that many.

Oh, another difference, the seats in the Staples Center were purple instead of blue.

Amazing how much cheaper the engineering is when you're taking an existing design for a building that seats more and is in a less geologically stable environment and using it over.  😉 

PS - the original name of the building was the "Crossroads Arena" until the naming rights were sold at which point it became the MMArena. 😉 

The location of the team store was slightly different too.

[Big Guava]

7 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

These are fine improvements.  But they're a long ways away from having a solid arena.  In no particular order

• 300 concourses are insanely tiny
• Everything feels really dated
• Uncomfortable seats that rattle and are barely bolted down
• Cupholders that don't fit literally any beverage that you sell
• The bottom bleacher rows aren't even flush with the boards so you could very easily drop a phone under them
• Feels really steep at the top rows for whatever reason
• Food options are... fine?  
• Bathrooms need... help.  
• The whole place just feels soulless.  Paint and new lighting would go a long way to improvement.  It just feels sooooo minor league.  

Steep you say? Did you ever walk up the steps in the old Aud? It was literally like stairway to heaven.

[In The Buff]

40 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

Steep you say? Did you ever walk up the steps in the old Aud? It was literally like stairway to heaven.

i remember falling down the stairs with a beer in my hand & because i tumbled so fast, i didnt spill any of my beer. Suppose I owe it to the steep design of the stairs. Those were some forward thinking architects lemme tell ya 😛

[Demoted]

On 2/26/2024 at 12:34 PM, shrader said:

It’s time to make home ice matter again. Make that sucker retractable. 

That would be awesome for an NHL team to do that, Northern obviously. 

Edited July 18 by Demoted

[Night Train]

17 hours ago, Big Guava said:

Steep you say? Did you ever walk up the steps in the old Aud? It was literally like stairway to heaven.

In the nosebleed orange seats, you looked straight down and watched the game between your knees. 

[Brawndo]

On 7/17/2024 at 10:47 AM, Taro T said:

300 level concourses are insanely tiny, so the events staff place trash cans and recycling bins at the end of the stanchions under the stands to restirct them even further.  Genius.

They have been asked to not place them there and on occassion have moved them.  But then the ushers complain that people "can't find them and leave their trash everywhere."  Bullspit.  There is a can or recycle bin literally at every stanchion.  It isn't hard to "find" one.  And if that really were the reason, they could be placed so that they stick out past the stanchion by 4"-6" so people could "see" them, but it would still free up at least 24" of prime walking space.  This stupid can placement makes it very difficult to get around in the 300's at the 1st intermission as the vast majority of the 300's empty into the concourse during that intermission.

Heck of a job, Quinny; heck of a job.  (Though he's the idiot that was fine with the stupidly narrow concourses (which are wider than what was there behind the blues in the Aud, which isn't saying much.  The hallway in our tiny house is probably larger than they were over near the bathroom by the Aud Club entrance.) at least he isn't the idiot telling them to keep restricting pedestrian flow even further.  But still, a chance for a pot shot at that tool, when provided should and must be taken.)

Having the entire 300 section exiting by two escalators wasn’t a brilliant plan either.

They have the space to add another on each side 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Having the entire 300 section exiting by two escalators wasn’t a brilliant plan either.

They have the space to add another on each side 

True dat.  But it was cheaper than adding additional escalators.  Heck of job there, Quinny, heck of a job.

And, because of the congestion at the escalators (which is even worse when you have to come from the penalty box side of the rink after being used to coming from the other side) we've always taken the stairs back down to leave the building.

[Brawndo]

Just now, Taro T said:

True dat.  But it was cheaper than adding additional escalators.  Heck of job there, Quinny, heck of a job.

And, because of the congestion at the escalators (which is even worse when you have to come from the penalty box side of the rink after being used to coming from the other side) we've always taken the stairs back down to leave the building.

Quinn had a total budget of 130 million and original cost was 129.5 million, so there wasn’t much left to spend. 

Unfortunately I cannot see a major renovation coming in the near future, NYS and Erie County will not be too keen on spending more money on a professional sports venue in WNY and current ownership probably does not have the appetite to spend hundreds of millions on KBC either(beyond the roof and Jumbotron). 

[sabremike]

Visit any other NHL or NBA arena and you will see just what an embarrassing dilapidated shithole KBC is. Every one of the arenas even close to comparable in awfulness are in the process of being replaced, most major colleges have far better arenas. There are even several AHL teams that have nicer arenas. 

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, sabremike said:

Visit any other NHL or NBA arena and you will see just what an embarrassing dilapidated shithole KBC is. Every one of the arenas even close to comparable in awfulness are in the process of being replaced, most major colleges have far better arenas. There are even several AHL teams that have nicer arenas. 

Agreed. I have said this for a long time. In the past 5-10 years, I have been to more events at other Arenas around the country than I have in Buffalo.  The KBC really is way behind the other Arenas...and I'm not just talking about the Brand new ones.  Look at the other ones that were built around the same time...I haven't been to all of them but I have been to TD Garden in Boston (older than the KBC) and Philly (the same age), Bridgestone in Nashville (I think the same age) Columbus (3-4 years newer I think).  A couple of them  had renoviations, but it isn't even close, their quality is MUCH greater.

And I know those will say a hardcore fan doesn't need a nice arena, the game is enough.  I would have agreed with that 20-30 years ago, but now with high def TV, all the camera angles, our computers/phones/tablets to check stats and news on as the game is ongoing.....with all that as a hardcore fan I can (most of the time) experience the pure game of hockey better at home than I can at an 'average' seat at the Arena.  If they want to get me out of my house and to the Arena, give me comfortable seats, some nice (and different) places to eat, just an overall good experience.  But with me, at this point it doesn't matter so I shouldn't complain. With the price of going to the game (tix, parking, food), they could build the greatest Arena in the NHL and i'm not going much, I'd rather save the money and have that gameday experience at home.  If I could go with someone else (2 people) and have the entire experience that is good for under $100 then maybe, but those days are long gone.

But to your original point...The KBC is one of the bigger 'dumps' in the league, and you really realize that once you go to other places.  As others have said, seats that creak when you sit on them, broken or missing cup holders, concrete that is pitted and cracking, restrooms where 1/3 of everything in them is out of order, just not acceptable at all for the prices paid for tickets.

Edited July 18 by mjd1001

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

Visit any other NHL or NBA arena and you will see just what an embarrassing dilapidated shithole KBC is. Every one of the arenas even close to comparable in awfulness are in the process of being replaced, most major colleges have far better arenas. There are even several AHL teams that have nicer arenas. 

You're exaggerating. I've been to several NHL arenas. United Center in Chicago, TD Garden Boston, and whatever they call the Panthers arena these days.. They are all nice but KBC isn't that bad in comparison. 

[CallawaySabres]

The new roof will be a fantastic addition to this arena since we consistently look to the heavens and ask what we did to deserve this team 🤐