Girgensons Is No Longer An NHL Level Player ?

[JoeSchmoe]

4G and 0A is well under the hockey Mendoza line. 

I don't care if he can skate hard into the other team's end and tie up a guy for a while until we eventually lose the puck and the other team takes the puck down the ice for an extended zone pressure. There's a minimum offensive threshold even a checking line must put out. 

[#freejame]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

And the irony of that statement is we still don't have a 4C that plays that role better.   

This says more about the franchise than is does a player who was out of the league after 100 games elsewhere. The same will be said about Zemgus. 

[inkman]

17 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

4G and 0A is well under the hockey Mendoza line. 

I don't care if he can skate hard into the other team's end and tie up a guy for a while until we eventually lose the puck and the other team takes the puck down the ice for an extended zone pressure. There's a minimum offensive threshold even a checking line must put out. 

I don’t think too many people are here to argue Girgs production.  He’s been a good soldier, find him a team for a chance at the cup.  

[Marvin]

As an oldster, I am still salty about the failure of the 1986 Sabres-Oilers trade that was rumoured for Gil Perreault.  I hope that Girgensons and Okposo go to teams with the best chance of winning the Cup that is possible.  The return is borderline immaterial to me.

[JoeSchmoe]

42 minutes ago, inkman said:

I don’t think too many people are here to argue Girgs production.  He’s been a good soldier, find him a team for a chance at the cup.  

If we ever get good enough to make a cup run, I really hope whoever's GM'ing at the time does NOT bring in a Girgensons at the trade deadline. 

[Marvin]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

If we ever get good enough to make a cup run, I really hope whoever's GM'ing at the time does NOT bring in a Girgensons at the trade deadline. 

Girgensons is the type of player who always gets acquired by a contender at the deadline for fifth line depth, if nothing else.

[JoeSchmoe]

3 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Girgensons is the type of player who always gets acquired by a contender at the deadline for fifth line depth, if nothing else.

Well if some team wants to take the plunge, let's just hope we get a pick and not a player. 

Any player we get back is going to be off the scrap heap. Difference between him and Z though is the player will likely have term left and KA will have him in the lineup dragging down the team down next season too.

[Believer]

11 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Well if some team wants to take the plunge, let's just hope we get a pick and not a player. 

Any player we get back is going to be off the scrap heap. Difference between him and Z though is the player will likely have term left and KA will have him in the lineup dragging down the team down next season too.

You need a break, @JoeSchmoe… Take a walk… Get some fresh air… Don’t know what the weather’s like where you are… It’s Sunny and 67 in Sarasota… Imagine you are taking a walk down here…😎

[JoeSchmoe]

6 minutes ago, Believer said:

You need a break, @JoeSchmoe… Take a walk… Get some fresh air… Don’t know what the weather’s like where you are… It’s Sunny and 67 in Sarasota… Imagine you are taking a walk down here…😎

Going snowboarding, thanks!

[Kristian]

12 hours ago, #freejame said:

Zemgus should have left years ago. This team wouldn’t take a message if it slapped them across the face so I don’t think moving him moves the needle. I agree I’m ready to see him go and that he’s been mostly a waste of space for a decade. 

They moved their franchise poster-boy, and none of these overpaid creampuffs seemed to notice.

[Kristian]

4 hours ago, Marvin said:

As an oldster, I am still salty about the failure of the 1986 Sabres-Oilers trade that was rumoured for Gil Perreault.  I hope that Girgensons and Okposo go to teams with the best chance of winning the Cup that is possible.  The return is borderline immaterial to me.

Kyle Okposo can jump in a grease fire, for all I care. Sticking it to the fans for being upset with the coach was the last straw with this bum.

He’s been hot dogshit ever since he came here, and this is the only organisation in the league that wouldn’t have thrown his overpaid behind on waivers, where he should have been seven years ago.

[xzy89c1]

and krebs gets to play with him and we criticize krebs.

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

He skates hard. He's probably the second best forchecker on the team next to Tuch. And his scoring per 60 minutes... Which is the way that you evaluate someone with limited ice time... Isn't that much different than a typical fourth liner around the league. He's also probably in your top five penalty killing in terms of forwards over his career. He hasn't really lost a step in skating.

Is he worth 2.5 million per year? No, but you're not up against the cap. For the role he serves. He's perfectly fine.

I really do not understand the hate that some people have for him and the rush to get him off of the team. You're not changing this team's fortunes by changing up a fourth line Winger, certainly not one who actually doesn't cause you major problems day in and day out. Personally, as long as the team isn't up against the salary cap, I'd like him back next year if you want to still be here.

More of the same pigeonhole the problems logic.

This franchise hasn’t made the playoffs in *13 years*. We do not have the luxury of turning up our noses at *any* kind of improvement that can be salvaged. How could we? Didn’t we miss the playoffs by a solitary point last year? What are we doing here?

I’m not saying Girgs has to go but yet again, your post reads like, “well, he’s ALMOST a good enough 4th liner, it’s fine.”

No. You seem to be looking for reasons to avoid replacing players, when the mindset should be to improve in any area possible, if at all possible 

a bunch of small things that “aren’t really the main issue” quickly stack up and BECOME an issue when you dismiss away thing after thing under this principle 

[GoPuckYourself]

He should never have been re-signed much like Okposo, this franchise rewards failure like no other.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

More of the same pigeonhole the problems logic.

This franchise hasn’t made the playoffs in *13 years*. We do not have the luxury of turning up our noses at *any* kind of improvement that can be salvaged. How could we? Didn’t we miss the playoffs by a solitary point last year? What are we doing here?

I’m not saying Girgs has to go but yet again, your post reads like, “well, he’s ALMOST a good enough 4th liner, it’s fine.”

No. You seem to be looking for reasons to avoid replacing players, when the mindset should be to improve in any area possible, if at all possible 

a bunch of small things that “aren’t really the main issue” quickly stack up and BECOME an issue when you dismiss away thing after thing under this principle 

Yesterday I thanked you, today I gave you a green checkmark. I feel dirty. 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Yesterday I thanked you, today I gave you a green checkmark. I feel dirty. 

[MISabresFan]

19 hours ago, Marvin said:

As an oldster, I am still salty about the failure of the 1986 Sabres-Oilers trade that was rumoured for Gil Perreault.  I hope that Girgensons and Okposo go to teams with the best chance of winning the Cup that is possible.  The return is borderline immaterial to me.

Also pick a fan base that won't boo or say bad things about their play.  Maybe send them along with a box of tissues.

[Doohicksie]

12 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

He should never have been re-signed much like Okposo, this franchise rewards failure like no other.

If I had to pick one thing that Kevyn did wrong this offseason it would be the goalie situation.  But #2 would be bringing back Okie and Girgs.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

If I had to pick one thing that Kevyn did wrong this offseason it would be the goalie situation.  But #2 would be bringing back Okie and Girgs.

I would put Clifton and E Johnson on par with those two factors.

[Doohicksie]

46 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I would put Clifton and E Johnson on par with those two factors.

I wouldn't.  EJ has been worse than I hoped but I think Clifton is okay as a bottom 4 guy.  And I recognize bringing EJ in was probably more about the off-ice mentoring of our younger defensemen (Muel, Lil J, Power).  I don't have any problem with bringing EJ in.

Clifton is and will continue to be a serviceable defenseman.  He's not the best but he's okay in a bottom 4 role.

[mjd1001]

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

More of the same pigeonhole the problems logic.

This franchise hasn’t made the playoffs in *13 years*. We do not have the luxury of turning up our noses at *any* kind of improvement that can be salvaged. How could we? Didn’t we miss the playoffs by a solitary point last year? What are we doing here?

I’m not saying Girgs has to go but yet again, your post reads like, “well, he’s ALMOST a good enough 4th liner, it’s fine.”

No. You seem to be looking for reasons to avoid replacing players, when the mindset should be to improve in any area possible, if at all possible 

a bunch of small things that “aren’t really the main issue” quickly stack up and BECOME an issue when you dismiss away thing after thing under this principle 

My intent of the post was to say you aren't getting $2.5m worth of performance/games out of him (especially because he does miss games due to injury), but I don't think there is an obvious improvement for him.  This team had room under the cap. If you could sign/find a guy who was going to be better for sure, then sign him.  But, If you can't find a guy better (and that is my main point) I don't get rid of Zemgus to replace him with an 'equal part' to save $1m per year while this team is under the cap.

Again, if there IS a guy out there for $2.5m who is better than him who is willing to take that 4th line role on this team then sure. But who is that guy that they turned away? I haven't even heard rumors of who it might be....so with that being said, Give me Zemgus for whatever you are paying him (as long as its a 1 year deal) than just putting some other replacement level player in there.

[Drag0nDan]

16 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

and krebs gets to play with him and we criticize krebs.

I've yet to see krebs really bring anything to the table.  He isn't fast enough, the skills he had don't really pop, loses the puck on the walls pretty consistently, doesn't forecheck or backcheck that well, hes just a dude.  

I'm fine lumping him in with Z, KO, EJ, etc.  I'd probably buy out skinner, clifton probably too.  I'd contemplate moving tuch or Greenway.  

Roster needs a serious shakeup, and they will most likely need to make a splash in FA as well as make a couple of trades.  Can't keep just rolling in new rookies and hoping they'll pop off, when they're consistently too small and slow to make an impact as rookies.

[mjd1001]

22 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I've yet to see krebs really bring anything to the table.  He isn't fast enough, the skills he had don't really pop, loses the puck on the walls pretty consistently, doesn't forecheck or backcheck that well, hes just a dude.  

I'm fine lumping him in with Z, KO, EJ, etc.  I'd probably buy out skinner, clifton probably too.  I'd contemplate moving tuch or Greenway.  

Roster needs a serious shakeup, and they will most likely need to make a splash in FA as well as make a couple of trades.  Can't keep just rolling in new rookies and hoping they'll pop off, when they're consistently too small and slow to make an impact as rookies.

I agree on Krebs.  I know some players take a few years to show what they really are. I know Krebs stats are similar to, or maybe even better than other players at his age (Thompson, maybe Mitts).  But after the initial feeling of being happy the Sabres got a top prospect/first round pick at the time of the trade, I really haven't seen anything from him that stands out at all. He seems slow. He rarely wins a loose puck battle.  Several times on the backcheck his lack of speed just makes him 1/2-1 step away from getting to the eventual goal scorer.  I hear on this forum he has great vision and hockey sense, but I just don't see it get used in the games at all.

So like usual, I am hoping he step up his game. But on a game-to-game basis, I see nothing from him (yet) that makes me think he is anything more than a borderline AHL/NHL guy in the long term.  Show me a speed burst even if it doesn't result in a goal.  Go into the corner every once in a while against a vet and take the puck away (once a game maybe).  Hustle back and be the reason a 2-on-1 turns into a 2-on-2 against and a scoring chance is taken away. Make a good pass once or twice a game that leads to a scoring chance, even if the guy you passed it to doesn't convert it.   I am not even seeing many of those 'flashes'.

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I've yet to see Mitts really bring anything to the table.  He isn't fast enough, the skills he had don't really pop, loses the puck on the walls pretty consistently, doesn't forecheck or backcheck that well, hes just a dude.  

Edited your statement a bit.  A few years ago, when Mitts was looking lost like Krebs, and he has come around.  Not saying that Krebs will follow the same trajectory, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Edited your statement a bit.  A few years ago, when Mitts was looking lost like Krebs, and he has come around.  Not saying that Krebs will follow the same trajectory, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Krebs is getting 3C time.  They want to see him produce with Peterka and Benson.   Probably a good move at this juncture.