CBJ's GM gets pink slip

[Cityo'Rasmii]

[HOUSE]

He must suck huh?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Who ??

Always sad to hear this kind of news.

How long is he still under contract for ?  Hopefully, he'll still have a nice payday while he looks for something else.

[PromoTheRobot]

So the Jackets have a GM, and a PoHO, and an oops management team. 🤔

Edited February 15 by PromoTheRobot

[TheAud]

14 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Who ??

Always sad to hear this kind of news.

How long is he still under contract for ?  Hopefully, he'll still have a nice payday while he looks for something else.

9 years as Columbus GM. 

 

17 minutes ago, Shoot da Puck said:

He must suck huh?

5 playoff seasons in 9 years but nothing recently. So with zero playoff appearances how long does Adams get?

[Mr. Allen]

Oooh.  Who will the new GM start shopping?  

[Mango]

This now makes Adams the longest tenured playoff drought in the league. (Assuming the standings stay the same as they are today)

Technically Arizona hired Bill Armstrong the same offseason as Adams, but KA was hired 3 months earlier. 

Way to go Terry!



 

[inkman]

Robinson trade did him in!

[TageMVP]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So the Jackets have a GM, and a PoHO, and an oops management team. 🤔

You can't be saying this in defense of the Sabres. I hope not, at least. 

They've also made the playoffs several more times than the Sabres. Check mate 

[PromoTheRobot]

39 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

You can't be saying this in defense of the Sabres. I hope not, at least. 

They've also made the playoffs several more times than the Sabres. Check mate 

Just pointing out having layers of management doesn't guarantee success. But yes, they have 5 playoff trips with two series wins during the Sabres drought so there's that.

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Just pointing out having layers of management doesn't guarantee success. But yes, they have 5 playoff trips with two series wins during the Sabres drought so there's that.

The layer above the GM (PoHO) is good to isolate the owner from the GM - which is what we need in Buffalo.  

 

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The layer above the GM (PoHO) is good to isolate the owner from the GM - which is what we need in Buffalo.  

 

I have yet to see of hear any direct evidence of interference. You might infer there is because Terry is there watching but no one has ever said Terry makes hockey decisions over Kevyn Adams. You'd think if he were doing such, word would leak out. If I'm wrong please cite an example. Or are you suggesting just having Terry around impacts Adams decision process?

Edited February 15 by PromoTheRobot

[Goldseatsaud]

Adams is doing such a good job ask the owner

[Ducky]

Long overdue.

Some really, really bad decisions by him.

I suspect Laine, Texler, Gaudreeau and even Werenski will all be shopped.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have yet to see of hear any direct evidence of interference. You might infer there is because Terry is there watching but no one has ever said Terry makes hockey decisions over Kevyn Adams. You'd think if he were doing such, word would leak out. If I'm wrong please cite an example. Or are you suggesting just having Terry around impacts Adams decision process?

The latter part.  It is human nature.

Also, considering @Brawndo's and other's information, there is also a natural question of whether some personnel moves are unduly influenced by Terry's sentiments rather than by pure hockey decisions.

[PerreaultForever]

The timing allows Davidson to put all the blame on him and to clean house in any way he wants before bringing in the "new era" with whoever the new guy is. He's pretty much free to do anything so if I was a GM I'd be talking to him. 

[PromoTheRobot]

32 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The latter part.  It is human nature.

Also, considering @Brawndo's and other's information, there is also a natural question of whether some personnel moves are unduly influenced by Terry's sentiments rather than by pure hockey decisions.

None of this is evidence. It's conjecture.

But let's talk about these alleged owner-tainted decisions. Draft picks have been mostly good, have they not? Decision to stick with UPL?  Signing Tage, Cozens and Dahlin? I'm trying to imagine where we can find Terry's fingerprints on the hockey department.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have yet to see of hear any direct evidence of interference. You might infer there is because Terry is there watching but no one has ever said Terry makes hockey decisions over Kevyn Adams. You'd think if he were doing such, word would leak out. If I'm wrong please cite an example. Or are you suggesting just having Terry around impacts Adams decision process?

There is evidence of interference all over the place,  it is just hard to separate fact and fiction.  

Putting Kim in charge was interference.  

There was that ROR trade that had to happen before the bonus kicks in.  

Right now, Pegula may not make any decisions to override Adams because he does not have too, so far.  Adams complies with his wishes, he doesn't spend near the cap, he doesn't sign high priced free agents, he doesn't trade for expensive players, he doesn't hire high profile coaches and execs.     

That all came about came after he fired JBOT, who he and Kim gave a vote of confidence to just weeks prior to his firing.  Why was he fired?  Because JBOT would not comply with their new plan -   remember the speech "from now on we will be economic and efficient".    

 

[Marvin]

47 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

None of this is evidence. It's conjecture.

But let's talk about these alleged owner-tainted decisions. Draft picks have been mostly good, have they not? Decision to stick with UPL?  Signing Tage, Cozens and Dahlin? I'm trying to imagine where we can find Terry's fingerprints on the hockey department.

I did say that I am taking the posters here who have consistently turned up correct internal information before at their word.  They also have written about the problems that Buffalo has historically had with recruitment, which partially exonerates Pegula and Adams from their critics.  Conjecture this might be, but they obviously know more than I do.

The first obvious question comes with XGMJB's dismissal and GMKA's ascension because Adams was willing to be a good soldier.  The current rebuilding plan with its spending limitations is GMKA's deciding under Terry Pegula's direction.  It is reasonable to draw the inference that Terry has some veto over what GMKA does.

From a hockey point of view, I have to ask if running back exactly the same forwards from the end of last year to this season was unduly caused by (very understandable) sentiment rather than cold hockey logic for Terry (and Kevin and Donnie too, for that matter).  It is reasonable to assert that the bottom part of the forward roster could have been improved upon and that it could have made a difference this year.

 

[Mango]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have yet to see of hear any direct evidence of interference. You might infer there is because Terry is there watching but no one has ever said Terry makes hockey decisions over Kevyn Adams. You'd think if he were doing such, word would leak out. If I'm wrong please cite an example. Or are you suggesting just having Terry around impacts Adams decision process?

There’s certainly been stories that have leaked out like the Skinner extension. It’s been rumored that McBeane have a no meddling clause. It’s further been speculated that Briere asked for the same but it was denied.

There is also that insane slide deck that was released where the Pegula’s told the team that part of Pegulas sports was to “maintain family lifestyle”

Since buying the Bills it’s been common knowledge that Terry has a stranglehold on local media outlets. He’s been noted for being quick to pull access for anybody who is critical so you’ve seen less stories.

There’s also been some questionable quotes from Terry:

Quote

 "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ".

 

Quote

“I probably talk to Darcy more than I talk to my wife.”

 

Quote

"You might talk to some of the other owners around the league and they'll tell you, 'Who's this new owner? What is he crazy,'"

I am not sure what is proof for you? Botrill getting in front of  mic and going through a slide deck of specific instances Terry got in the way? Terry to stand at the podium and say “I Terry Pegula regularly overrule the hockey people in the building and a regular basis”

You are never ever going to get any of that from any professional sports owner in any of the big 4 leagues in the US. 

Edited February 16 by Mango

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

There’s certainly been stories that have leaked out like the Skinner extension. It’s been rumored that McBeane have a no meddling clause. It’s further been speculated that Briere asked for the same but it was denied.

There is also that insane slide deck that was released where the Pegula’s told the team that part of Pegulas sports was to “maintain family lifestyle”

Since buying the Bills it’s been common knowledge that Terry has a stranglehold on local media outlets. He’s been noted for being quick to pull access for anybody who is critical so you’ve seen less stories.

There’s also been some questionable quotes from Terry. 

 "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ".

“I probably talk to Darcy more than I talk to my wife.”

"You might talk to some of the other owners around the league and they'll tell you, 'Who's this new owner? What is he crazy,'"

I am not sure what is proof for you? Botrill getting in front of  mic and going through a slide deck of specific instances Terry got in the way? Terry to stand at the podium and say “I Terry Pegula regularly overrule the hockey people in the building and a regular basis”

You are never ever going to get any of that from any professional sports owner in any of the big 4 leagues in the US. 

How about a report from a legit news organization citing the owner as the reason a move was made/not made?

[Mango]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How about a report from a legit news organization citing the owner as the reason a move was made/not made?

When asked about going around Ted Black to scheming with Darcy Terry Pegula literally said “Ted Black doesn’t have a monopoly on hockey IQ”. What article do you need? He admitted it.

Before McBean the Toronto Sun reported that Pegula fired Rex without taking to Whaley first. 

https://torontosun.com/2017/01/05/terry-pegula-a-case-study-in-billionaire-sports-team-owners-gone-wrong

If you want a detailed statement you’re never ever going to get it. So congrats on winning this one. But you’ve basically made it impossible to do otherwise. 

[PromoTheRobot]

43 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Before McBean the Toronto Sun reported that Pegula fired Rex without taking to Whaley first. 

 

Considering how short Whaley's tenure was after McDermott took over, this is nothing. Was Terry going to "discuss" Whaley's replacement with Whaley? 😂 Turned out to be a great move by Terry, no?

[Mango]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Considering how short Whaley's tenure was after McDermott took over, this is nothing. Was Terry going to "discuss" Whaley's replacement with Whaley? 😂 Turned out to be a great move by Terry, no?

You asked for evidence of Terry meddling. You specifically asked for a major/ credible publication. 

There are quotes from Terry himself when questioned about his own meddling saying he goes around the president of the team.
 

He has admitted that other owners say he’s crazy.

A major newspaper has an article about him firing his coach without talking even discussing it with the GM. A coach the GM didn’t even want to hire in the first place, mind you. And a GM he kept around for another 4 months plus a draft. 

Forton himself is a friend of the family hire. His brother in law is the business manager for Pegula. 

Pegula has had 2 members of his senior leadership team bail on him before their contacts were up. Granted Marrone and LaFontaine are ash hats. But nobody walks out on executive roles in the big 4. Pegula has had 2. 
 

I’ve jumped through the hoops. Do what you like. But Pegula is a mess. 

[PromoTheRobot]

@Mango I just want to make sure we are taking about Pegula not talking to Doug Whaley about hiring Sean McDermott, right? Because I addressed that and you are posting like you didn't read it.

By the time Terry fired Rex, Whaley was done, whether he knew or not. Why on earth do you owe your lame duck GM a say in hiring the new Bills regime? A regime that has been very successful since taking over. I'd say that was a win for Terry.

Edited February 16 by PromoTheRobot