Sabres shopping Mittelstadt?

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

No one can convince me that Pegula is not meddling day to day.  It doesn’t stop at…

“Says TP is involved in the amateur scouting meetings; mostly listens, but takes notes and asks questions”.

When you have ruined the franchise to the point where they have missed the playoffs for 13 straight years in a league where half the teams make the playoffs each year, you get zero benefit of doubt.

Just sell the f***ing team already.

 

 

Oh I think that's absolutely definite and that's our biggest problem. Any owner who takes the time to sit in on scouting meetings is definitely meddling. Anyone who has worked in a big company or corporation knows that nobody is themselves when the CEO or President comes to the meeting and most everybody will tell the guy what they think he wants to hear. Just being in the room influences the dynamic. 

[LTS]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:10 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dear Mr Adams

1). Your team is already eliminated.  Time to begin the auditions.

2) you can make roster room by clearing out the dead weight on the roster.  Don’t wait until the deadline.  Be aggressive, start now.  

3) Sign Mitts, trade Skinner.

 

People keep saying this...  I keep repeating. Skinner has a full NMC.  He's not going anywhere unless he wants to.  I suppose the question to him is: Do you want a chance on a playoff team for once in your career or are you happy to play only 82 games a season and collect your $9M?

Hard to say.  But the Sabres would have to retain 50% or split the money with other teams like Arizona to move him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 2/14/2024 at 6:31 PM, LTS said:

People keep saying this...  I keep repeating. Skinner has a full NMC.  He's not going anywhere unless he wants to.  I suppose the question to him is: Do you want a chance on a playoff team for once in your career or are you happy to play only 82 games a season and collect your $9M?

Hard to say.  But the Sabres would have to retain 50% or split the money with other teams like Arizona to move him.

The question to him is do you want to collect $9 mill on a playoff team or one that continually plays for a top-10 draft pick without actually getting better?  

The NMC, depending on how it's written, doesn't prevent a trade but allows the player to have some or most of the control over where he goes.  Just ask Patrick Berglund or Taylor Hall.  This is Skinner's 14th year in the NHL and he has never suited up in a playoff game.  He is 31 (32 in May) and has 3 years left on his deal.  He is getting the $27 million whether he stays or goes, but it's time to say, Jeff, why don't you go to a contender and try to get yourself a ring because the Sabres may still be 2-3 years away from contending.  If we find the right taker (Det?, Tor?) there is a good chance he'll accept the opportunity.  Most players want to win.  As they get closer to the end of their careers, that desire tends to grow because the number of opportunities to win shrinks.  Jeff, thank you for your efforts here in Buffalo, but it's time to move on.

Edited February 16 by GASabresIUFAN

[Two or less]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

People keep saying this...  I keep repeating. Skinner has a full NMC.  He's not going anywhere unless he wants to.  I suppose the question to him is: Do you want a chance on a playoff team for once in your career or are you happy to play only 82 games a season and collect your $9M?

Hard to say.  But the Sabres would have to retain 50% or split the money with other teams like Arizona to move him.

On top of that, i can't imagine any team trading for Skinner. There's a reason this guy has never played in a playoff game in his life.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The question to him is do you want to collect $9 mill on a playoff team or one that continually plays for a top-10 draft pick without actually getting better?  

The NMC, depending on how it's written, doesn't prevent a trade but allows the player to have some or most of the control over where he goes.  Just ask Patrick Berglund or Taylor Hall.  This is Skinner's 14th year in the NHL and he has never suited up in a playoff game.  He is 31 (32 in May) and has 3 years left on his deal.  He is getting the $27 million whether he stays or goes, but it's time to say, Jeff, why don't you go to a contender and try to get yourself a ring because the Sabres may still be 2-3 years away from contending.  If we find the right taker (Det?, Tor?) there is a good chance he'll accept the opportunity.  Most players want to win.  As they closer to the end of their careers, that desire tends to grow because the number of opportunities to win shrinks.  Jeff, thank you for your efforts here in Buffalo, but it's time to move on.

Might I suggest that if Skinner was like "most players" than the idea of trading him wouldn't be there. 

[#freejame]

If I owned a professional hockey or baseball team you bet your ass I’m sitting in every meeting I can, taking as many notes as my hand can write, and asking any damn question I want to ask. None of that is an issue to me.

The problems come in when the own starts dictating decisions. The owner has one decision to make—who do I trust enough to execute my vision for a successful sports franchise. Let them execute it and if you don’t have faith in the execution anymore, fire them and bring someone new in. Play sports owner all you want, but there’s only one decision an owner needs to be in on and that’s who steers the ship for me. Something tells me Terry gives his yacht captain a course to follow and then lets the captain do his job. No different here. 

[Stoner]

5 hours ago, #freejame said:

If I owned a professional hockey or baseball team you bet your ass I’m sitting in every meeting I can, taking as many notes as my hand can write, and asking any damn question I want to ask. None of that is an issue to me.

The problems come in when the own starts dictating decisions. The owner has one decision to make—who do I trust enough to execute my vision for a successful sports franchise. Let them execute it and if you don’t have faith in the execution anymore, fire them and bring someone new in. Play sports owner all you want, but there’s only one decision an owner needs to be in on and that’s who steers the ship for me. Something tells me Terry gives his yacht captain a course to follow and then lets the captain do his job. No different here. 

So why is Terry up in the crow's nest asking about winds and whales and stuff?

His presence in any meeting necessarily affects the decision making process.

"Terry do u wanna get tougher to play against?" Kevin Devine circa 2012

[Weave]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

So why is Terry up in the crow's nest asking about winds and whales and stuff?

His presence in any meeting necessarily affects the decision making process.

"Terry do u wanna get tougher to play against?" Kevin Devine circa 2012

And “the owner is going to determine the extent of the rebuild.” Circa the beginning of the end.

Edited February 15 by Weave

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

So why is Terry up in the crow's nest asking about winds and whales and stuff?

His presence in any meeting necessarily affects the decision making process.

"Terry do u wanna get tougher to play against?" Kevin Devine circa 2012

What’s it matter what he’s doing as long as he isn’t having an impact? He can spend his days doing his best jack skeleton. What’s this? What’s this?

[thewookie1]

33 minutes ago, #freejame said:

What’s it matter what he’s doing as long as he isn’t having an impact? He can spend his days doing his best jack skeleton. What’s this? What’s this?

There's prospects everywhere..

What's this?

There's scouts in every chair

What's this?

I can't believe my eyes 

I must be dreaming

Wake up, Terry, this isn't fair

What's this?

[Night Train]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/buffalo-sabres/news/sabres-have-prime-trade-target-in-flames-star-defenseman

[Mango]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:17 AM, #freejame said:

If I owned a professional hockey or baseball team you bet your ass I’m sitting in every meeting I can, taking as many notes as my hand can write, and asking any damn question I want to ask. None of that is an issue to me.

The problems come in when the own starts dictating decisions. The owner has one decision to make—who do I trust enough to execute my vision for a successful sports franchise. Let them execute it and if you don’t have faith in the execution anymore, fire them and bring someone new in. Play sports owner all you want, but there’s only one decision an owner needs to be in on and that’s who steers the ship for me. Something tells me Terry gives his yacht captain a course to follow and then lets the captain do his job. No different here. 

I don't get the sense this is true just because there is too much evidence the other way. 

It is certainly possible that Pegula has always let his people have the freedom to fail. But given what we know, what he has been quoted as saying, and the results that have ensued, it is certainly "possible" however statistically wildly unlikely that the below could all happen and the Sabres nearly double the leagues longest ever playoff drought without pulling a lot of levers that he shouldn't. 

Here are the things we know to be true: 
 - Both the GM and HC roll equally to the owner. 
- Fired Rex Ryan without consulting his GM. 
- When asked about scheming behind Ted Blacks back with Darcy his response wasn't "no". It was "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ". He was certainly meddling.
- He has had 2 high level staff walk out on him. Marrone and LaFontaine. Both might be ash holes. But franchises rarely see one guy ever do that let alone two.
- He has also admitted that the other NHL owners might think he is crazy for the way he runs his team. 

A few things that have been speculated as of late: 
- McBeane have the only two no meddling clauses in either organization
- McBeane have worked hard to make sure that the Bills org is not part of the Sabres org and one does not bleed into the other. 
- Danny Briere was interested in a POH role but Pegula refused to sign a no meddling clause and that was the deal breaker. 
- Pegula forced the Skinner extension on GMJB.

Edit: Quoting the correct post. Also words.

Edited February 16 by Mango
Quoting the correct post. Also words.

[FrenchConnection44]

On 2/13/2024 at 4:58 PM, Norcal said:

KA put these rumors to rest. The rest of this info chafes me quite a bit.

The fact that Pegula is in on the daily goins on and said to be frustrated is just asinine tbh.

Do something Terry. This team is begging for it. 

I think there is some plausible deniability going on there with Mitts. Classic GM speak. “Not surprised his name is out there but not *actively* shopping him.” Doesn’t mean they aren’t fielding calls about him nor that they might not have inquired about a player and put his name out there. 

But it does sound like he’s wanting to run with this team the rest of the way? 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦‍♂️

He has to bring in a talented vet  I’d trade for one in the last year of his deal and do a full court press to sign him  just to have the leadership. Then hire a new coach. 
 

 

 

 

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, Night Train said:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/buffalo-sabres/news/sabres-have-prime-trade-target-in-flames-star-defenseman

Granato coached Hanifin But I believe he's gonna cash in this summer 

 

 

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

So why is Terry up in the crow's nest asking about winds and whales and stuff?

His presence in any meeting necessarily affects the decision making process.

"Terry do u wanna get tougher to play against?" Kevin Devine circa 2012

I have to agree that the presence of the owner attending the working level meetings of the GM and his staff can be a problem, especially if the feeling is they have to placate him and make him the smartest guy in the room.    That just kills growth, innovation and makes people want to move on.   

Does Terry have the personality to be in there "making the sausage" while not stepping on the creativity, skill, and knowledge of the staff?    We can only look at the results to derive an answer.  

In another life I was an Executive level Director for a huge corporation and I can tell you when a VP or a P came to my meetings the staff tightens up.   The staff will tend to not say anything out of line or that can be perceived as stupid/wrong, etc.   That is not how you brainstorm to get the best ideas and decisions.  

Some Sr Execs do have great leadership skills and can go anywhere and make people feel comfortable and valued, some are the opposite, some are  in between.  I sure don't know were Terry falls in this, but based on the results of his tenure with the Sabres, I would recommend that he has his meetings with his direct reports to set high level strategy, and then stays out of the next level working meetings.  

Edited February 16 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I don't get the sense this is true just because there is too much evidence the other way. 

It is certainly possible that Pegula has always let his people have the freedom to fail. But given what we know, what he has been quoted as saying, and the results that have ensued, it is certainly "possible" however statistically wildly unlikely that the below could all happen and the Sabres nearly double the leagues longest ever playoff drought without pulling a lot of levers that he shouldn't. 

Here are the things we know to be true: 
 - Both the GM and HC roll equally to the owner. 
- Fired Rex Ryan without consulting his GM. 
- When asked about scheming behind Ted Blacks back with Darcy his response wasn't "no". It was "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ". He was certainly meddling.
- He has had 2 high level staff walk out on him. Marrone and LaFontaine. Both might be ash holes. But franchises rarely see one guy ever do that let along two.
- He has also admitted that the other NHL owners might think he is crazy for the way he runs his team. 

A few things that have been speculated as of late: 
- McBeane have the only two no meddling clauses in either organization
- McBeane have worked hard to make sure that the Bills org is not part of the Sabres org and one does not bleed into the other. 
- Danny Brier was interested in a POH role but Pegula refused to sign a no meddling clause and that was the deal breaker. 
- Pegula forced the Skinner extension on GMJB.


 

What does my post about Skinner have to do with TP unless TP tells KA that he can’t trade Skinner under any circumstances?

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I have to agree that the presence of the owner attending the working level meetings of the GM and his staff can be a problem, especially if they feeling is they have to placate him and make him the smartest guy in the room.    That just kills growth, innovation and makes people want to move on.   

Does Terry have the personality to be in there "making the sausage" while not stepping on the creativity, skill, and knowledge of the staff?    We can only look at the results to derive an answer.  

All of the following things can be true....that he has every right as the owner to be in those meetings...that other owners do similar things....and that it can be very disruptive to the management.

Years ago when Rex Ryan was the Bills coach, I remember an interview with Pegula.  He was talking about how Rex and his staff were defensive geniuses, and that Pegula himself sat in on meetings with the coaching staff and he was amazed at how much they knew. He want on to say he had to ask so many questions just to understand what they were talking about.  After that interview I came away thinking....If i was THAT coaching staff, I couldn't wait to have a meeting without him. Even if he wasn't throwing in his 'opinion', someone interrupting on a frequent basis (which he made it sound himself like he was doing), just isn't a good situation.

Now, add to that the fact/strong rumors that it was PEGULA who wanted Ville Leino, and he admitted he pushed for Erhoff.....and it would seem to be reasonable to think that in hockey, he makes his feelings known and does more than 'just listen'.

 

Edited February 16 by mjd1001

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What does my post about Skinner have to do with TP unless TP tells KA that he can’t trade Skinner under any circumstances?

I 100% quoted the wrong comment. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I don't get the sense this is true just because there is too much evidence the other way. 

It is certainly possible that Pegula has always let his people have the freedom to fail. But given what we know, what he has been quoted as saying, and the results that have ensued, it is certainly "possible" however statistically wildly unlikely that the below could all happen and the Sabres nearly double the leagues longest ever playoff drought without pulling a lot of levers that he shouldn't. 

Here are the things we know to be true: 
 - Both the GM and HC roll equally to the owner. 
- Fired Rex Ryan without consulting his GM. 
- When asked about scheming behind Ted Blacks back with Darcy his response wasn't "no". It was "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ". He was certainly meddling.
- He has had 2 high level staff walk out on him. Marrone and LaFontaine. Both might be ash holes. But franchises rarely see one guy ever do that let along two.
- He has also admitted that the other NHL owners might think he is crazy for the way he runs his team. 

A few things that have been speculated as of late: 
- McBeane have the only two no meddling clauses in either organization
- McBeane have worked hard to make sure that the Bills org is not part of the Sabres org and one does not bleed into the other. 
- Danny Brier was interested in a POH role but Pegula refused to sign a no meddling clause and that was the deal breaker. 
- Pegula forced the Skinner extension on GMJB.


 

Good running list and good comments.  There is more to add, but to maintain decorum I will refrain.

[TageMVP]

Mittlestatds gone cold, too. 

I dont see how the coach hasn't been fired. 

296 goals last year. You don't just luck into 296 freaking goals. The talent IS there 

FIRE THE COACH 

[Buffalonill]

16 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

Mittlestatds gone cold, too. 

I dont see how the coach hasn't been fired. 

296 goals last year. You don't just luck into 296 freaking goals. The talent IS there 

FIRE THE COACH 

The coach wanted to teach defense this year

 

[TageMVP]

59 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

The coach wanted to teach defense this year

 

I'm aware of that. 

He should still be fired. If a hockey player does something very well, you do your best to maximize that particular skill. You don't have the goalie play defense because your defenseman stink. 

If Thompson is a natural goal scorer, you maximize that. Granato messed up. He did the equivalent of making Jokiharju a center by "changing" to a defensive system. Shouldn't have ever changed his system to begin with. I'd fire him for that alone 

[Buffalonill]

3 hours ago, TageMVP said:

I'm aware of that. 

He should still be fired. If a hockey player does something very well, you do your best to maximize that particular skill. You don't have the goalie play defense because your defenseman stink. 

If Thompson is a natural goal scorer, you maximize that. Granato messed up. He did the equivalent of making Jokiharju a center by "changing" to a defensive system. Shouldn't have ever changed his system to begin with. I'd fire him for that alone 

Never said I didn't want Him fired

Trust me I wanted him gone last off season but I got torched

Edited February 16 by Buffalonill

[thewookie1]

Samuelsson, Savoie 24' 2nd and 25' 3rd for Drew Doughty(3mil retained)

 

Would you do it?

[sabremike]

56 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Samuelsson, Savoie 24' 2nd and 25' 3rd for Drew Doughty(3mil retained)

 

Would you do it?

This might be the most bonkers trade proposal I have ever seen on these boards. Doughty is washed up and sucks, that would be a spectacularly awful trade.

Edit: I was probably too harsh here and was probably clouded by recency bias on the player. I still think he would be a terrible fit because he wouldn't want to play in Buffalo.

Edited February 17 by sabremike