Sabres shopping Mittelstadt?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Mitts is the 3C right now and one of the better 2 way forwards that we have.  In fact, he can play the 1C role and be effective and he is also pretty damm good at LW.

So trading Mitts to get a goalie or a top 4 RHD is going to create a big hole at 3C. 

I don't understand why anyone keeps saying this when it's objectively false but everyone does. Casey Mittelstadt is not the 3rd center on the Sabres. He's simply not and the fact Adams hasn't extended his best center speaks volumes to his bias and incompetence. 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes, I'm against the move.  Dump someone else who doesn't play two-way hockey and doesn't make his teammates better.  Start with Skinner.  

If KA thinks he can't afford Mitts, he hasn't analyzed the deadwood on his roster.  He is currently paying KO, Z, VO, Bryson, Comrie, Jokiharju, Krebs, and EJ 20 million.  

Trade Skinner and recover probably $6 mill per year for the next 3 years.  That will go a long way to paying Mitts.  

Trading Skinner will be hard to do, but not impossible if they retain some of it.   I think we have a better chance of success backfilling Skinner with one of our kids -  Kulich/Rosen/Savoie - then we do using them to backfill Mitts.  

KO Z, VO and the others can go and will be replaced for little money. 

Mitts will actually bring us a good player back, which is the goal of the trade - to fix Goalie and/or add a top 4 RHD.  To really talk to this correctly we have to know what the big picture plan is - is he planning 3 trades, 2 trades, 1 trade?   Is he targeting UFAs?   etc.  

[LGR4GM]

Jeff Skinner has a full No Movement Clause.

[Ogelthorpe]

5 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

As of now the Thompson, Cozens, Power contracts look like disasters for the future. That can always change given their ages of course. But as it stands right now, in this moment, the Buffalo Sabres are just straight up a farm team for the rest of the league. I mean, even their coach is a "development specialist", they've put 0 effort in to special teams coach's (pk and pp) and honestly they appear to lack any motivation what so ever to seriously bring a winning product to the Buffalo market. Just my view of the situation given the past 13 seasons is all.

Dahlins contract looks horrible too. 

[Pimlach]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't understand why anyone keeps saying this when it's objectively false but everyone does. Casey Mittelstadt is not the 3rd center on the Sabres. He's simply not and the fact Adams hasn't extended his best center speaks volumes to his bias and incompetence. 

I get your point. 

My view as of today is, Tage is the 1C and he is locked up.  Cozens got paid, so I call him the 2C, there is no plan to move him that we know of today.  In fact, Adams was trumpeting Cozens in his recent interview. 

That leaves Casey as 3C.  Now, the reality is Casey has proven he can plug into 1C and be effective.  He has improved his all around game tremendously.  He can slide to LW and be effective.   He could be a 2C on many teams, including this one.  Physically, he has a stout build and he works hard at both ends of the ice.  Skills wise he has very good hands and passing skills.   I think that today he is better than Cozens - but Cozens plays with Peterka and Quinn and they were our best line until the injury to Quinn.  

So in summary, I called him 3C because Adams already locked up 2 centers. 

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jeff Skinner has a full No Movement Clause.

Yup.  Maybe he might entertain Toronto, Detroit, Ottawa or Montreal to stay close to home?  Then he will haunt us the rest of his career.  

Edited February 10 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

As of now the Thompson, Cozens, Power contracts look like disasters for the future. That can always change given their ages of course. But as it stands right now, in this moment, the Buffalo Sabres are just straight up a farm team for the rest of the league. I mean, even their coach is a "development specialist", they've put 0 effort in to special teams coach's (pk and pp) and honestly they appear to lack any motivation what so ever to seriously bring a winning product to the Buffalo market. Just my view of the situation given the past 13 seasons is all.

Way, way, way too early to say that.    New contracts are going up, and salary cap is going up.  I am betting these contracts look great in the next few years because I think we have not seen the best of Cozens, and not even close to the best of Power.  

Edited February 10 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Skinner has a NMC, he isn't going anywhere. His contract was structured to be bought out after next season, and I believe Adams will. All this talk about not being able to pay all the forwards is not true. If they all fit can be debated, but the money is there, that includes re-signing Mitts. 

Sure. They can sign Mitts for $5.5M if he will take that.  

Buying out Skinner after next year is plausible but a good GM would be working it now. 

[Stoner]

Can KA spend to the cap?

What's his timeline for contending and are we considering the horrifying possibility that Casey at 25 doesn't fit in the timeline?

[Archie Lee]

40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't understand why anyone keeps saying this when it's objectively false but everyone does. Casey Mittelstadt is not the 3rd center on the Sabres. He's simply not and the fact Adams hasn't extended his best center speaks volumes to his bias and incompetence. 

I agree with you that Mittelstadt is not the 3C.  Right now he is our best centre.  Whether he will be, over the bulk of what could be a long-term contract, is unknown. It could be that Mittelstadt's below average skating is a worry to them in the context of a deal that would take him into his 30's.

I would personally extend Mittelstadt.  I think the Cozens/Thompson deals are basically templates with there being an argument for Mittelstadt to come in a little lower based on goal scoring outputs. I would give him 6.5 x 7 and not lose any sleep. I'm not concerned about the cap and in particular am not concerned with the impact it would have on retaining either Quinn or Peterka. In the summer of 2025 if Quinn and Peterka have both earned high $$$ long-term extensions we can find a way to move off Skinner or Tuch or one of the 3 centres if we need to. Or, we can trade Quinn or Peterka as we have lots of wing depth in the organization.  Even Mitts, Cozens or Thompson can all move to wing if Krebs eventually pushes himself up the line-up or Östlund hits. 

That said, outside of Dahlin there is no player in the organization that should be untouchable. While I reserve the right as a fan to hate any trade, I will say that from a  philosophical standpoint I would only object to a Mittlestadt trade if the return was futures.  Even then though, I would be ok with a Mittelstadt futures trade if the stated intent was to then move picks/prospects (including those acquired for Mitts) in the off-season as part of a team remake. In other words, trading Mittlestadt for futures during a lost season doesn't need to set us back for next year, if the intent is to then use futures in the off-season to acquire veterans who re-set the roster.

  

 

[Scottysabres]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Can KA spend to the cap?

What's his timeline for contending and are we considering the horrifying possibility that Casey at 25 doesn't fit in the timeline?

Let us break this down 1 question at a time.

Can KA spend to the cap? With the way he throws money at inconsistently producing players, ys, he appears to have no problem spending to the cap. As of now, foolish spending, but he's like a drunken sailor in any red district, no problem spending.

What's his time line for contending? At this rate PA, for fans our age....

 

 

And finally, Casey not fitting the time line? I believe this to be the wrong question. We should be asking if Casey rumors are due to him producing to much, thereby angering the Adams and Granato, incurring their rath?

Edited February 10 by Scottysabres

[steveoath]

If they trade Casey, what does it say about the draft and develop plan??

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

As of now the Thompson, Cozens, Power contracts look like disasters for the future. That can always change given their ages of course. But as it stands right now, in this moment, the Buffalo Sabres are just straight up a farm team for the rest of the league. I mean, even their coach is a "development specialist", they've put 0 effort in to special teams coach's (pk and pp) and honestly they appear to lack any motivation what so ever to seriously bring a winning product to the Buffalo market. Just my view of the situation given the past 13 seasons is all.

I mostly (but not totally) disagree with that.

Thompson is having a down year compared to the last couple, but even now he is scoring at a 30 goal pace. Paying him $7m per year is about what a consisitent 30 goal scorer should get (maybe even more), but he has almost 3 seasons worth of games showing that is a floor, with a ceiling higher than that. I have no problem with his contract. Thompson also my not be 'good' in the defensive zone, but he isn't someone that causes problems (like Cozens) so I don't hold that against him.

Cozens, as many now on this board I RIGHT NOW do not like his contract. He has one year of scoring 30 (due to a high shooting percentage that year) and every other year (including this year), over 160 games played, shows he is more like a 8% shooting percentage guy, NOT a 15% guy like last year.  Even if you figure he might be a 10% guy, that translates to 18-22 goals per year for him. Add that to the fact he is BAD in his own zone (not for lack of effort, but for simple hockey sense), and if he doesn't put up 30 goals per year for you, it is a bad contract.

Power?  I have posted many times on here last year that I thought he was "OK" last year but not as good as everyone thought. This year him playing, at times bad, doesn't surprise me. But, I do think that most D-men don't hit their stride, until they have 3000-400 games played. Power I think is not good now, but I think he WILL be good, it is just going to take another year or two.

[Weave]

34 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Can KA spend to the cap?

What's his timeline for contending and are we considering the horrifying possibility that Casey at 25 doesn't fit in the timeline?

Yeah, I had a similar though.  Has leadership determined that the 25 yr olds on the team don’t match their timeline?  
 

Its not much of a leap of logic to consider that the current core isn’t making enough of a difference and the next core might be determined to be the difference makers.

Man, I absolutely hate that the premise even entered my head.  I hope it hasn’t entered KAs.

 

For all the energy given to the conversations regarding moving on from Jack and Sam, I think the most compelling reason is that they simply didn’t fit KAs timeline.  Plausible that Mitts doesn’t fit a new timeline given the core not getting it done when the pressure was on.

[Buffalonill]

11 minutes ago, steveoath said:

If they trade Casey, what does it say about the draft and develop plan??

Pretty easy Buffalo Does all the hard work Developing the players and then they trade them for a first round pick and do it again. 

 

[Brawndo]

Per Lance Lysowski, the Sabres are not shopping Him.

 

[Flashsabre]

11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Per Lance Lysowski, the Sabres are not shopping Him.

 

Wait a minute so Andrew Peters may not be an accurate source of info😃

[SabreFinn]

I do not see any problem for Adams to sign Mitts to nearly the same money as Cozens and Thompson, if they reach play offs every bad contract will be forgotten, and if they don't he will get fired and do not have to bother anymore 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jeff Skinner has a full No Movement Clause.

That doesn’t mean he won’t or can’t be traded.  It just means he controls the destination if he wants to play in the playoffs.  At the rate this team is “developing” Skinner may be retired with 6 grandkids before we make the playoffs.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

If they trade Casey, what does it say about the draft and develop plan??

Draft.  Develop.   Trade - and watch them blossom.  

[Pimlach]

54 minutes ago, Weave said:

Yeah, I had a similar though.  Has leadership determined that the 25 yr olds on the team don’t match their timeline?  
 

Its not much of a leap of logic to consider that the current core isn’t making enough of a difference and the next core might be determined to be the difference makers.

Man, I absolutely hate that the premise even entered my head.  I hope it hasn’t entered KAs.

 

For all the energy given to the conversations regarding moving on from Jack and Sam, I think the most compelling reason is that they simply didn’t fit KAs timeline.  Plausible that Mitts doesn’t fit a new timeline given the core not getting it done when the pressure was on.

I do not think Adams is allowed to spend to the cap. Pretty sad if true because Jack/Sam/Mitts timeline is now.   They are young vets and excellent players.  

I hope this rumor is false because right now we have Tage, Mitts, Cozens - which SHOULD be a good center spline no matter how you stack them as 1,2,3.  Just get a better 4th center that wins draws and plays better 2 way hockey than Krebs. 

Then, if and when one of the young kids develops as a center, any of the three can play wing.  

[Flashsabre]

Adams is definitely on a budget. Just look at the quality of the coaching staff.

[TageMVP]

9 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Adams is definitely on a budget. Just look at the quality of the coaching staff.

Pegula stinks now and forever 

[Stoner]

9 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Adams is definitely on a budget. Just look at the quality of the coaching staff.

So if that relatively small part of the hockey budget is restricted, what does that say about spending on players?

[TageMVP]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So if that relatively small part of the hockey budget is restricted, what does that say about spending on players?

And we collectively thought Golisano was too penny picking 

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So if that relatively small part of the hockey budget is restricted, what does that say about spending on players?

Peggy has been burned by free agents and paying players and coaches that are gone.  Adam’s is on a budget.