Sabres shopping Mittelstadt?

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Ctaeth said:

I enjoy this bit you're doing 

You mean the trade all former golden knights, we got ripped off on Eichel, dump Rochester, put a Buffalo AHL affiliate in Sloan, they can build a rink in the empty lot near the VFW Hall.  That Schtick? 

[SABRES 0311]

I still don’t understand why people get upset about shopping/trading a skilled player. Does anyone think trading a Robinson, Krebs, Girgs, Bryson type player would return something the team needs?

[Two or less]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

I would trade for John Gibson and Devon Levi are the Sabres goalies next season.

 

I know Petey mentioned Gibson on his podcast today which is why i think you brought it up here.

I'm watching the Ducks Oilers game tonight and Gibson left after the 2nd period. Lukas Dostal came in the 3rd and Sportsnet reported during the game that Gibson is out for the game with a lower-body injury fwiw.

 

[PerreaultForever]

29 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I still don’t understand why people get upset about shopping/trading a skilled player. Does anyone think trading a Robinson, Krebs, Girgs, Bryson type player would return something the team needs?

I'm not upset with the idea of trading Mitts. I'm pretty sure that this would be "selling high" and if we signed him to Cozens money he'd drop off next year much like Cozens (maybe worse). 

We've accomplished nothing with this roster so I'm not against ANY deal, but only deals that bring back a return that leads to a better constructed roster. 

We need a goalie, a 2 way 3C, a top 4 D, and one or two gritty bottom enders. This season is a lost year. Whatever we have to do to fill those holes and change the make up of this roster is fine with me. Mitts could be step one. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I still don’t understand why people get upset about shopping/trading a skilled player. Does anyone think trading a Robinson, Krebs, Girgs, Bryson type player would return something the team needs?

Yes, I'm against the move.  Dump someone else who doesn't play two-way hockey and doesn't make his teammates better.  Start with Skinner.  

If KA thinks he can't afford Mitts, he hasn't analyzed the deadwood on his roster.  He is currently paying KO, Z, VO, Bryson, Comrie, Jokiharju, Krebs, and EJ 20 million.  

Trade Skinner and recover probably $6 mill per year for the next 3 years.  That will go a long way to paying Mitts.  

Edited February 10 by GASabresIUFAN

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes, I'm against the move.  Dump someone else who doesn't play two-way hockey and doesn't make his teammates better.  Start with Skinner.  

If KA thinks he can't afford Mitts, he hasn't analyzed the deadwood on his roster.  He is currently paying KO, Z, VO, Bryson, Comrie, Jokiharju, Krebs, and EJ 20 million.  

Trade Skinner and recover probably $6 mill per year for the next 3 years.  That will go a long way to paying Mitts.  

Moving Skinner would require salary retention or taking in a bad contract. He’s overpaid when you consider how one dimensional he is.

None of the other players you mention will return anything of value.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes, I'm against the move.  Dump someone else who doesn't play two-way hockey and doesn't make his teammates better.  Start with Skinner.  

If KA thinks he can't afford Mitts, he hasn't analyzed the deadwood on his roster.  He is currently paying KO, Z, VO, Bryson, Comrie, Jokiharju, Krebs, and EJ 20 million.  

Trade Skinner and recover probably $6 mill per year for the next 3 years.  That will go a long way to paying Mitts.  

It's not that he COULDN'T pay Mitts, but I suspect it's a mapped out vision of what percentage of the payroll they have designated for each position. Hence he paid Thompson and Cozens as 1C and 2C and 3C is probably a LOT LESS so Mitts doesn't fit his model of where the money goes, now and later. That's my guess anyway. 

I'd love to get rid of Skinner but he's not going to waive his NTC. 

Besides, he has way too much fun on a team that doesn't hate to lose.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'd love to get rid of Skinner but he's not going to waive his NTC. 

I think he would waive it to go to a Cup contender in the East. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Moving Skinner would require salary retention or taking in a bad contract. He’s overpaid when you consider how one dimensional he is.

None of the other players you mention will return anything of value.

I fully expect some retention and the return of a contract as I wrote in my previous post.

As to not getting anything for our deadwood, who cares as long as they are gone. 

[Demoted]

This team is just a farm team for other better teams.

[PerreaultForever]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think he would waive it to go to a Cup contender in the East. 

Why would you think this? He's never been in the playoffs, ever, and he specifically wanted to be in this geographical area. I'm sure he'd go to Toronto or maybe even Detroit, but they aren't taking on his salary. We are stuck with him. 

[SabreFinn]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I wonder if we could retain 3 mil on Skinner and trade him to Vancouver for Garland and DiGuiseppe(just some random guy with at 750k)

It would certainly be an all-in move for a Vancouver team on fire and upgrades their offensive output.

 

Garland clean up the cap issues but is at least a bit more 2 way capable 

I like this! Skinner would finally get to play for a cup.

[SabreFinn]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd also consider trading TNT before Mitts.  This sounds counterintuitive at first since TNT is kind of a unicorn.  He's big, skates well, has a wicked shot, and can stick-handle in a phone booth.  However, he still isn't a good two-way player.  To me, he is just a bigger better version of VO.  

I believe TNT's scoring is replaceable.  When I look at the Sabres, I see plenty of other goal scorers.  Quinn, Cozens, JJP, Skinner, and Tuch all can or have scored 30+ in the NHL.  Kulich is also a goal-scorer.  How many other playmakers and two-way forwards do we have other than Mitts? Benson? Maybe, but he is only 18, and years from his full potential.  Östlund? Probably, but we have no idea when he'll arrive in Buffalo (if ever).  

I also think TNT would garner a higher return than Mitts given his 90+ point season and reasonable contract.  

PS: This trade deadline may be the best opportunity to move Skinner and most of his contract.  He is still scoring at a good pace.  Teams need scoring in the playoffs.  The cap jumps next year giving teams the ability to afford his deal beyond this season and Skinner might be willing to waive him NMC to go to a playoff team after missing the playoffs all 13+ years of his career.

I am thinking of this too. Adams should really evaluate his sk first line. Is Thompson a 1C that can make us a contender? For now he isn't one that even take us to the play offs. As you say he will bring more in return than Mitts. And he is still without any NTC this season, what I read it is only a five team clause next year, but still. It is easier when he do not need to go through his agent first. And after trading Thompson Mittelstadt can't demand the same money either.

I like Thompson, he has those skills and that shot, but I do not ser him as a 1C. Some blame the roster construction and maybe that is where the problem is, I do not have the answer.

And if Thompson is traded, who is our 1C?

[SabreFinn]

53 minutes ago, Demoted said:

This team is just a farm team for other better teams.

Know that feeling...

[Scottysabres]

As of now the Thompson, Cozens, Power contracts look like disasters for the future. That can always change given their ages of course. But as it stands right now, in this moment, the Buffalo Sabres are just straight up a farm team for the rest of the league. I mean, even their coach is a "development specialist", they've put 0 effort in to special teams coach's (pk and pp) and honestly they appear to lack any motivation what so ever to seriously bring a winning product to the Buffalo market. Just my view of the situation given the past 13 seasons is all.

[Johnny Cakes]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

As of now the Thompson, Cozens, Power contracts look like disasters for the future. That can always change given their ages of course. But as it stands right now, in this moment, the Buffalo Sabres are just straight up a farm team for the rest of the league. I mean, even their coach is a "development specialist", they've put 0 effort in to special teams coach's (pk and pp) and honestly they appear to lack any motivation what so ever to seriously bring a winning product to the Buffalo market. Just my view of the situation given the past 13 seasons is all.

At this point, you would figure they would try a new coach to light a fire under some of these guys butts.

Imo Granato is soft and his team replicates this on the ice night in and night out.

[Buffalonill]

John Gibson has refused a trade to buffalo many times 

He Isn't coming

[Buffalonill]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Trading Casey Mittelstadt isn’t going to get it done. Trade Alex Tuch that needs to happen along with Peyton Krebs. The Buffalo Sabres need to move on from the Vegas Golden Knights junk the Sabres got for Jack Eichel it’s a constant reminder that the Buffalo Sabres got ripped off. Alex Tuch is going to age quickly you can see it. Trade Alex Tuch now while he still has some value. I want John Tavares out of Toronto whatever it takes to acquire him. He is older and experienced and the Sabres new team captain. You build around John Tavares to end the Sabres playoff drought. Pick one Rasmus Dahlin or Owen Power and trade the other. I don’t resign UPL I am not comfortable giving him a long term contract trade him at the trade deadline to someone that needs a playoff back up goalie. I would trade for John Gibson and Devon Levi are the Sabres goalies next season. I don’t resign Kyle Okposo and trade him at the trade deadline. I also sell the Rochester holdings and develop players closer to the immediate Buffalo area take your pick Amherst, Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga or Orchard Park. One possibility Orchard Park New Buffalo Bills stadium site across the street from the New Bills stadium at the present Highmark Stadium site. I am open to a Bills/Sabres/Buffalo AHL training campus with in a 5,000 to 6,000 seat arena. The arena will cost $80 million or more dollars to build. You need a training campus that houses our Buffalo teams that is state of the art. If you want that new Bills stadium to ever be anything more than it’s been for 50 years you need events year round out there in Orchard Park. You need something that can draw Buffalo fans to spend there money. The Buffalo Bills already control the parking there you need something that is year round. All of this type of stuff needs to happen for the Sabres to ever win big again. There is no future at Harbor Center it was a hotel with some shops and is outdated. The Harbor Center arena is too small seating capacity with 2,000 seats to host real events like AHL hockey, MASL indoor soccer and Arena Football League or Indoor Football League in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 So you want to trade a 27 year old for a 33 year old ? Because Tuch is getting older ...

Make it make sense 

[FrenchConnection44]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd also consider trading TNT before Mitts.  This sounds counterintuitive at first since TNT is kind of a unicorn.  He's big, skates well, has a wicked shot, and can stick-handle in a phone booth.  However, he still isn't a good two-way player.  To me, he is just a bigger better version of VO.  

I believe TNT's scoring is replaceable.  When I look at the Sabres, I see plenty of other goal scorers.  Quinn, Cozens, JJP, Skinner, and Tuch all can or have scored 30+ in the NHL.  Kulich is also a goal-scorer.  How many other playmakers and two-way forwards do we have other than Mitts? Benson? Maybe, but he is only 18, and years from his full potential.  Östlund? Probably, but we have no idea when he'll arrive in Buffalo (if ever).  

I also think TNT would garner a higher return than Mitts given his 90+ point season and reasonable contract.  

PS: This trade deadline may be the best opportunity to move Skinner and most of his contract.  He is still scoring at a good pace.  Teams need scoring in the playoffs.  The cap jumps next year giving teams the ability to afford his deal beyond this season and Skinner might be willing to waive him NMC to go to a playoff team after missing the playoffs all 13+ years of his career.

It really is a tough trade situation given how bad the entire team has been this year. Every skater has regressed except Casey & JJP. 

Age wise, Skinner is the most obvious trade commodity. But not sure what we’d get with his contract and one way talent. 

That said, I understand the consideration on trading Mitts as they may think he will garner the most value because teams won’t have to take on a huge contract. He’s playing well. And we may not want to pay him moving forward. 

Tage might get value. Talent wise he’s the best offensive talent. But he is an enigma. Super talented but often lacks energy and doesn’t play with passion. He seems very blasé when we score and he is on ice. Everyone else is smiling, excited, and he is almost, “okay, gotta do the obligatory group hug.” He would probably blow up if he went to a winning franchise with strong leadership.

It all depends on what we get back. Would we get a strong player with years to go on a deal who would actually make us better? 

But I don’t agree on the “plenty of other goal scorers.” I think it’s just the opposite. JJP, Tage, & Skinner are the only ones I would put in that category.

Quinn has had two major injuries, so while I am hopeful, I am not sure what we will have in him. 

Cozens? He didn’t score much 2 years ago. Okay, he was just getting his feet wet. Got 31 last year but was that an anomaly or the norm and this year is the anomaly? He doesn’t have a big shot or an accurate shot. His shots are often right at the goalie.  Like most of the other players on the team. 

In 7 seasons, Tuch scored more than 20 once - last season. Granted he had some injuries - but that seems to be the norm. He’s on a 22 goal pace this year factoring in the game pace for the Sabres as a whole. Even if he played the rest of the way without injury, he’s on pace to get 24 this season. I’d say he’s a mid-level scorer. You need those guys. But he’s not a 40 goal talent. He 

Now if we had 10-12 guys scoring 15-35 goals (like the Lightning had for their run) and played reasonable defense that would be fine. But they also had 4 special offensive talents (Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, & Hedman - who is a beast); and a great goalie. 

Kulich is a sniper. But he has hit a wall (though he did well in the WJC). 0 goals in his last 10 games for the Amerks. He may be 2 years away from even being a full time NHL player, could be 3+ years from starting to show his peak NHL talent. 

On the other hand, we have a lot of guys who are not really scorers: Mitts, Benson, Greenway, Cozens (? Jury out, imo), Krebs, Robinson … and the rest are dogs you just don’t want to see on the team much longer, imo (KO, Girgs, VO). 

Last year, it looked like this team was starting to build an identity as a high scoring unit. Now, they have no identity and a questionable future. 

I think it depends on what kind of identity you want the team to have. But I don’t think Adams has a clue nor especially Granato. He needs to be gone yesterday. That’s the real issue. 

I think Casey is who he will be right now. Which is good to see but this seems his peak talent level, imo. Perhaps he could get 80 points if he has good scoring talent on each wing. 

Whomever we trade, we will need a coach and a talented vet or two who can be real leaders (we have none among the forwards right now, imo) and light a fire under the young guys. If we can get a coach and a couple of veterans who light a fire under Tage and some of the other young talents, the upside for them is very high, imo. If Tage got stronger and super motivated with good coaching, he’s a 45-50 goal scoring talent the next 4+ yrs, imo. 

We need a coach who has some respectability, will sit down with each of these guys ask them if they want to be great or not, and lay out a vision and plan for each of them (especially physical development) and as a team. We don’t have that. 

People call Granato a developmental coach but I don’t think he’s any of that;  he’s just not a good coach period, imo. He's just a nice guy. 

 

[Hank]

Skinner has a NMC, he isn't going anywhere. His contract was structured to be bought out after next season, and I believe Adams will. All this talk about not being able to pay all the forwards is not true. If they all fit can be debated, but the money is there, that includes re-signing Mitts. 

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Skinner has a NMC, he isn't going anywhere. His contract was structured to be bought out after next season, and I believe Adams will. All this talk about not being able to pay all the forwards is not true. If they all fit can be debated, but the money is there, that includes re-signing Mitts. 

It’s not that they can’t afford the players(fit under cap whatever), it appears they are choosing not to.  If this report is to be believed.  I’m leery of Adams understanding of how to work the cap at all tho.  

26 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

It really is a tough trade situation given how bad the entire team has been this year. Every skater has regressed except Casey & JJP. 

Age wise, Skinner is the most obvious trade commodity. But not sure what we’d get with his contract and one way talent. 

That said, I understand the consideration on trading Mitts as they may think he will garner the most value because teams won’t have to take on a huge contract. He’s playing well. And we may not want to pay him moving forward. 

Tage might get value. Talent wise he’s the best offensive talent. But he is an enigma. Super talented but often lacks energy and doesn’t play with passion. He seems very blasé when we score and he is on ice. Everyone else is smiling, excited, and he is almost, “okay, gotta do the obligatory group hug.” He would probably blow up if he went to a winning franchise with strong leadership.

It all depends on what we get back. Would we get a strong player with years to go on a deal who would actually make us better? 

But I don’t agree on the “plenty of other goal scorers.” I think it’s just the opposite. JJP, Tage, & Skinner are the only ones I would put in that category.

Quinn has had two major injuries, so while I am hopeful, I am not sure what we will have in him. 

Cozens? He didn’t score much 2 years ago. Okay, he was just getting his feet wet. Got 31 last year but was that an anomaly or the norm and this year is the anomaly? He doesn’t have a big shot or an accurate shot. His shots are often right at the goalie.  Like most of the other players on the team. 

In 7 seasons, Tuch scored more than 20 once - last season. Granted he had some injuries - but that seems to be the norm. He’s on a 22 goal pace this year factoring in the game pace for the Sabres as a whole. Even if he played the rest of the way without injury, he’s on pace to get 24 this season. I’d say he’s a mid-level scorer. You need those guys. But he’s not a 40 goal talent. He 

Now if we had 10-12 guys scoring 15-35 goals (like the Lightning had for their run) and played reasonable defense that would be fine. But they also had 4 special offensive talents (Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, & Hedman - who is a beast); and a great goalie. 

Kulich is a sniper. But he has hit a wall (though he did well in the WJC). 0 goals in his last 10 games for the Amerks. He may be 2 years away from even being a full time NHL player, could be 3+ years from starting to show his peak NHL talent. 

On the other hand, we have a lot of guys who are not really scorers: Mitts, Benson, Greenway, Cozens (? Jury out, imo), Krebs, Robinson … and the rest are dogs you just don’t want to see on the team much longer, imo (KO, Girgs, VO). 

Last year, it looked like this team was starting to build an identity as a high scoring unit. Now, they have no identity and a questionable future. 

I think it depends on what kind of identity you want the team to have. But I don’t think Adams has a clue nor especially Granato. He needs to be gone yesterday. That’s the real issue. 

I think Casey is who he will be right now. Which is good to see but this seems his peak talent level, imo. Perhaps he could get 80 points if he has good scoring talent on each wing. 

Whomever we trade, we will need a coach and a talented vet or two who can be real leaders (we have none among the forwards right now, imo) and light a fire under the young guys. If we can get a coach and a couple of veterans who light a fire under Tage and some of the other young talents, the upside for them is very high, imo. If Tage got stronger and super motivated with good coaching, he’s a 45-50 goal scoring talent the next 4+ yrs, imo. 

We need a coach who has some respectability, will sit down with each of these guys ask them if they want to be great or not, and lay out a vision and plan for each of them (especially physical development) and as a team. We don’t have that. 

People call Granato a developmental coach but I don’t think he’s any of that;  he’s just not a good coach period, imo. He's just a nice guy. 

 

You are judging Tage based on his on ice celebrations with teammates?  

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, Two or less said:

 

I know Petey mentioned Gibson on his podcast today which is why i think you brought it up here.

I'm watching the Ducks Oilers game tonight and Gibson left after the 2nd period. Lukas Dostal came in the 3rd and Sportsnet reported during the game that Gibson is out for the game with a lower-body injury fwiw.

 

Trading Mitts for Gibson is not what I would do.  "Petey" seems to think this is legit.  

[LGR4GM]

Buffalo preparing to trade their leading scorer and 2 way forward... again. Probably for picks and prospects too.

 

[Huckleberry]

Probably one of the last guys they should trade....

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not upset with the idea of trading Mitts. I'm pretty sure that this would be "selling high" and if we signed him to Cozens money he'd drop off next year much like Cozens (maybe worse). 

We've accomplished nothing with this roster so I'm not against ANY deal, but only deals that bring back a return that leads to a better constructed roster. 

We need a goalie, a 2 way 3C, a top 4 D, and one or two gritty bottom enders. This season is a lost year. Whatever we have to do to fill those holes and change the make up of this roster is fine with me. Mitts could be step one. 

Interesting. 

I do not think Cozens struggled because he is lazy with the big contract.  Just the opposite, I think he struggled because of age, maturity, and his own high expectations due to the contract.  Add in injuries, his own and his line mate (Quinn).  Hw was a head case for awhile but he seems to be playing a lot better and I think he will be a very good 2 way 2C. 

Mitts is the 3C right now and one of the better 2 way forwards that we have.  In fact, he can play the 1C role and be effective and he is also pretty damm good at LW.

So trading Mitts to get a goalie or a top 4 RHD is going to create a big hole at 3C.  My fear is that Adams opens that position to either Savioe/Kulich/Rosen, none of them will be as good of an all around player next year as Mitts is right now.  All three need time., as Mitts did.  

That leads me to Krebs.  He is not doing the things right that show me he can move up to being a 2 way 3C, he is just ok as a 4C.  

So for all the depth in the center pipeline there will be a big whole to fill if they trade Mitts.  Someone has to step up - Krebs/Savioe/Kulich/Rosen/Östlund  - or Adams has to shop around for a veteran to bring in.  

Adams has a whole bunch of work to do.