Opinions Wanted: Controversy in a mens hockey league

[pi2000]

15 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

So, your actual defense is that you don't believe the woman who is writing about her experience at all? That is actually worse.

No, you are absolutely right ... believing a person's story is the worst thing we can do.

 

The combined IQ-lowering effect of these statements is staggering. I will say I am not accusing either of you of this directly, but these types of attitudes are exactly why women are afraid to come forward with claims of abuse - because they are afraid no one will believe them. Do better.

So if a woman accuses somebody of something we should all just blindly accept their account as fact and the accused have no right to defend themselves?   

Yikes! 

[Weave]

[Stoner]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:37 PM, Quint said:

This comment really showed your class.

What class? It's IKP.

I am sorry your opinion was attacked by a few. The fact it was only a few and there was no reasonable rebuttal is telling.

A careful reading of your post could have led to a respectful debate.

Hockey is for everyone, but not all hockey games are. Your safety point is one worth thinking about.

Unreasonable? Would you let your eight year old (son or daughter) play in a men's adult league? If not why not?

Would it detract from the enjoyment? Would it be unsafe? Of course.

Now let's put pi (or a pi when he was younger and tearing it up) into a women's adult league. Do his 9 goals in the first period detract from the enjoyment? Is it an issue with the women?

[xzy89c1]

She is looking for attention. Professional victims are all over.

[Big Guava]

On 2/6/2024 at 10:58 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

 

Absolute dogshit takes here.

Recreational hockey is for everyone, and if you can't at least be sportsmanlike about it, then go ***** yourself.

It is...and there is a reason men's and women's sports are separated after the age of 11 or 12.

People can believe whatever they want to believe. The real world doesn't care about that and neither does physics. I could "believe" that I could jump off a 10 story building or walk in front of a moving train and survive without any injuries. I would be dead wrong, literally, but I could believe it if I wanted to.

Believing something that simply logically and scientifically isn't true is a sign of delusion, which is where a lot of these women's rights people come off.

I'm not saying she shouldn't play, but she can always go play in a woman's league or a coed league.

Edited February 8 by Big Guava

[SwampD]

Just a point of clarification, It was an adult Hockey league, not a men's hockey league. She's playing in the right place.

Maybe those douchebags should go find a children's league to play in, if they're going to act like children.

[ska-T Chitown]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, shrader said:

The story as written, yes, I don't believe that happened.  If you exaggerate and modify the story to make people look as bad as possible, the story is no longer true.  I do believe that some jackasses treated her poorly, but I very highly doubt that she was chased around for the entire game post-hit and was driven to tears.  We are talking about a D1 athlete here. 

And there's a huge difference between not believing womEn when they make an accusation vs. not believing womAn.  I prefer to judge each incident individually and not just throw a blanket over everything.  This specific story, as presented in that article and the twitter post, it just feels like it's a bit too far off in fantasy land to me.  It doesn't add up.  Even little things like sitting around in the lobby expecting an apology.  Who does that?

Fair point and a reasonable explanation, even if I overall disagree. I think we have reached a logical stopping point for our discussion. Although I did disagree, I am always interested in what other people think.

 

On 2/8/2024 at 12:11 PM, pi2000 said:

So if a woman accuses somebody of something we should all just blindly accept their account as fact and the accused have no right to defend themselves?   

Yikes! 

There is a bit of hyperbole in your response and I assume you know that. The correct process, in my mind, is to accept what they are saying as "their truth" and then see if all the facts end up bearing that out. I get that there are subtleties and nuances that are just too hard to type out (not being sarcastic), but I did not think people saying "I don't believe what she is saying is the whole truth" (I took some liberties there to avoid any absolutes) is the same as saying she is telling her truth and you will see what additional facts may say.

Some will say that is just semantics. Maybe it is. But, in my mind those are important distinctions. I found it odd that some people defaulted to "well, there is no way that could be the true story" to me, that indicates an implicit bias against the person making the claim.

That said, the "that is not how it played out" camp could be right. It is a pretty well known fact that human memories are not infallible and our influenced by the lived experiences of the person doing the remembering. They are not lying necessarily, but remembering it differently.  Again, I just think to assume that right from the start is unfair to the person making the complaint.

[shrader]

37 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Just a point of clarification, It was an adult Hockey league, not a men's hockey league. She's playing in the right place.

Maybe those douchebags should go find a children's league to play in, if they're going to act like children.

Thanks, now I want to go back and watch that old South Park episode where Stan coaches a bunch of kindergartners against the Avs.

[#freejame]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

Thanks, now I want to go back and watch that old South Park episode where Stan coaches a bunch of kindergartners against the Avs.

“Can’t you tell him? I’m just his father. You’re his coach! You’re like a father figure to him.”

Edited February 8 by #freejame
I think I’ve mixed up my hockey episodes.

[LTS]

19 hours ago, pi2000 said:

II I signed up to play in a women's league (hey it's 2024, why not!), do I have a right to get upset when they chirp me and tell me I don't belong out there?   I would be shocked if they didn't tho haha.    But what if I really like women's hockey and want to play at that level?   Isn't "hockey for everyone"? 

Bzzzt, Adult Hockey league.  As for the rest of your commentary?  Pure ignorance. Hockey is for Everyone means that no one should be excluded. It doesn't mean each league is for anyone.  The composition of any league is up to the people who create the league.

18 hours ago, shrader said:

Isn’t it also naive to assume that one person’s telling of an incident is 100% accurate? I’m sorry, but I’m very skeptical of this story as written. D1 coach sitting in the corner crying? There’s some massive exaggeration at play here. 

See my first post on this entire story.  I made comment that the article seemed one sided.  But the original post was using the article as a reference point to an issue, not really tackling the specific incident.

54 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

It is...and there is a reason men's and women's sports are separated after the age of 11 or 12.

People can believe whatever they want to believe. The real world doesn't care about that and neither does physics. I could "believe" that I could jump off a 10 story building or walk in front of a moving train and survive without any injuries. I would be dead wrong, literally, but I could believe it if I wanted to.

Believing something that simply logically and scientifically isn't true is a sign of delusion, which is where a lot of these women's rights people come off.

I'm not saying she shouldn't play, but she can always go play in a woman's league or a coed league.

First bolded: Well damn.  I guess the females who played on my son's high school hockey team were not really female?

Second bolded: wait? I thought men's and women's sports are separated after the age of 11 or 12? I'm confused. How can there be co-ed leagues? Oh, but yes, there are ALWAYS co-ed or women's leagues available?  Or... was this league an adult league.. not a men's league?

42 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Just a point of clarification, It was an adult Hockey league, not a men's hockey league. She's playing in the right place.

Maybe those douchebags should go find a children's league to play in, if they're going to act like children.

DING.  DING.  DING.

[SwampD]

I would bet money that not only the guy who checked her, but those who chirped her, as well, were not as good as she, and that their fragile little egos got bruised.

[Captain Caveman]

2 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

She is looking for attention. Professional victims are all over.

She is a Professional Hockey coach...

[Captain Caveman]

5 hours ago, shrader said:

Even little things like sitting around in the lobby expecting an apology.  Who does that?

 

Again, not sure if you read the article, but according to it she spoke with the director of the league immediately following the game to confirm if that it was supposed to be an adult league, not a men's league.  He told her he was appalled at their behavior and was going to go speak with the other team about it.  If I remember correctly he suggested she stick around to hear what the other team had to say.

[SwampD]

More importantly, did her team win?

[shrader]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

See my first post on this entire story.  I made comment that the article seemed one sided.  But the original post was using the article as a reference point to an issue, not really tackling the specific incident.

Yeah, I'm not touching the original post here with a 50 foot pole.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

Again, not sure if you read the article, but according to it she spoke with the director of the league immediately following the game to confirm if that it was supposed to be an adult league, not a men's league.  He told her he was appalled at their behavior and was going to go speak with the other team about it.  If I remember correctly he suggested she stick around to hear what the other team had to say.

Yeah, I saw that.  It just seems like a lot to happen all within the relatively short time where that team is getting undressed and heading out.  Maybe they're boozing it up in there for a bit, who knows.

[Doohicksie]

I read the first post and thought for sure this would turn into a "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"  kind of argument.

 

Sabrespace did not disappoint.

[Wyldnwoody44]

We need Shoresy in here to pick a side. 

[ubkev]

Seems like there's a lot of tinted visors in that league. 

[Quint]

This is me signing off. I don't feel like I can be part of this group anymore. 

When the owner of the site calls your posts garbage, doesn't stick up for you in accordance to the site rules on attacking ideas not posters, then starts revealing what you wrote to him in a private message out in the comments in order to get his toadies to laugh at the OP,  it's time. 

Well, all I can say is let idiots play with idiots. 

[SwampD]

[Chair]

10 minutes ago, Quint said:

This is me signing off. I don't feel like I can be part of this group anymore. 

When the owner of the site calls your posts garbage, doesn't stick up for you in accordance to the site rules on attacking ideas not posters, then starts revealing what you wrote to him in a private message out in the comments in order to get his toadies to laugh at the OP,  it's time. 

Well, all I can say is let idiots play with idiots. 

[Marvin]

24 minutes ago, Quint said:

This is me signing off. I don't feel like I can be part of this group anymore. 

When the owner of the site calls your posts garbage, doesn't stick up for you in accordance to the site rules on attacking ideas not posters, then starts revealing what you wrote to him in a private message out in the comments in order to get his toadies to laugh at the OP,  it's time. 

Well, all I can say is let idiots play with idiots. 

That sucks.  Good luck to you.

[Pimlach]

I respectfully submit that this thread gets closed and deleted.  

 

[Stoner]

Don't blame Quint one bit.

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Quint said:

This is me signing off. I don't feel like I can be part of this group anymore. 

When the owner of the site calls your posts garbage, doesn't stick up for you in accordance to the site rules on attacking ideas not posters, then starts revealing what you wrote to him in a private message out in the comments in order to get his toadies to laugh at the OP,  it's time. 

Well, all I can say is let idiots play with idiots.