Opinions Wanted: Controversy in a mens hockey league

[pi2000]

3 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

So that would include not being yelled at ***** on for being a woman for a whole game

If she's complaining about not getting special treatment because she's woman, then she shouldn't play.  

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

If she's complaining about not getting special treatment because she's woman, then she shouldn't play.  

Did you even read the article?

[That Aud Smell]

40 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That said, my general take on rec league is the game becomes more and more chippy the lower the level.    Top level, most guys played somewhere at some point and the respect level is high between players... not really much of anything between whistles, etc. 

I've also played down a few levels and the lack of respect blew my mind.... I've never been slashed, hooked, cross-checked as much at any time in my life.    It's a gong show.   

This makes sense.

Interestingly, there are parallels to other sports. In my experience, highly competitive youth soccer teams and leagues involve less (or even no) cheap sh1t and minimal drama from the sidelines. The lower level the play gets, the more nasty stuff you see from players and, Lord help us, the worse the behaviour of the parents on the sidelines.

[atoq]

20 hours ago, Weave said:

This is ***** stupid.  Its a beer league.  Everyone is there for recreation and exercise.  Everyone has a real job to get to the next day.  It’s absolutely ridiculous to expect someone in that situation to have the means, personality, or will to come to someone’s aid here.  It’s a ***** beer league.

And yeah, some white knight should have come to defend her honor.  Now there is some real progress.  LMAO

She came into a situation where she expected to be treated as equal.  Was plastered in a league that certainly regulated contact, as evidenced by the penalty handed out.  And then taunted afterwards.  And she’s the one who handled it poorly.  *eyeroll*
 

I totally agree with this.

Some absolutely terrible takes in this thread. To those posters, you aren't coming across as bravely un-PC, you just look like idiots.

[Weave]

52 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

If she's complaining about not getting special treatment because she's woman, then she shouldn't play.  

Except she wasn’t complaining about not getting special treatment.  She was complaining about GETTING “special” treatment.

Reading comprehension is hard.

[Captain Caveman]

54 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

If she's complaining about not getting special treatment because she's woman, then she shouldn't play.  

She's not - read the article 

She was checked - 
The other player got a penalty because checking is illegal in just about all non-pro adult leagues
The other team screamed insults at her the rest of the game and said they didn't want her there

It is special treatment, just not the good kind.

[shrader]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

If a woman decides to suit up for a competitive men's league game, they should expect to be treated like any other player.   It's that simple.

I've played in some of the top level rec leagues both in Buffalo, the bay area and down here in orange county... played against maybe 2 or 3 women at different times, and they were all studs (former college, pro, etc..).   

That said, my general take on rec league is the game becomes more and more chippy the lower the level.    Top level, most guys played somewhere at some point and the respect level is high between players... not really much of anything between whistles, etc. 

I've also played down a few levels and the lack of respect blew my mind.... I've never been slashed, hooked, cross-checked as much at any time in my life.    It's a gong show.   

When I can no longer compete at the top rec league level  I'm going to hang em' up for good.

The mid-level beer leagues in Boston were the strangest thing I've ever seen in the game.  There's nothing quite like a 50 something acting like he still has a shot at the NHL.  I can't count the number of times I responded to a fight challenge with "it's a ****ing beer league".

 

Years ago there was a new story posted on here about a guy getting thrown out of his league for dropping a deuce in another player's glove.  That guy played in my league and was one of the nicest guys out there.  It was a real shame that he's the one who winds up getting thrown out of the league after he lost his mind in the face of yet another hot headed hack out there trying to fight everyone.

[That Aud Smell]

30 minutes ago, shrader said:

Years ago there was a new story posted on here about a guy getting thrown out of his league for dropping a deuce in another player's glove.  That guy played in my league and was one of the nicest guys out there.  

How you say ... that does not ... pass the smell test.

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Did you even read the article?

Was I supposed to?  😂

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Captain Caveman said:

She's not - read the article 

She was checked - 
The other player got a penalty because checking is illegal in just about all non-pro adult leagues
The other team screamed insults at her the rest of the game and said they didn't want her there

It is special treatment, just not the good kind.

Well that's not very nice.

It feels like we're only getting half of the story tho.   Find it hard to believe they would chirp her unprovoked, just because she's a woman.  

Edit... went back and actually read the article 😂.   I believe something else happened, to provoke the taunts... maybe she baited them somehow, I've seen it happen.  

"Hockey is for everyone" is a great ambition, but we're not there yet... still lots of guys playing who grew up with a different game with a different culture.   

Not giving them a pass here, but at the same time let's not be naive.

Edited February 7 by pi2000

[Captain Caveman]

Hmm, seems like you are giving them a pass...

You're also blaming her (seems like something else must have happened to provoke it) while also acknowledging that some dudes in hockey might be ***** "Still lots of guys playing who grew up with a different game / culture"

 

What happened that provoked the taunts?  One of their team got penalized for an illegal body check, they didn't like the call and took it out on her instead of the ref....
To me that's a lot easier to believe than that the head coach of a Division 1 hockey program put herself in the cross hairs just to stir some *****. 

 

 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Well that's not very nice.

It feels like we're only getting half of the story tho.   Find it hard to believe they would chirp her unprovoked, just because she's a woman.  

Edit... went back and actually read the article 😂.   I believe something else happened, to provoke the taunts... maybe she baited them somehow, I've seen it happen.  

"Hockey is for everyone" is a great ambition, but we're not there yet... still lots of guys playing who grew up with a different game with a different culture.   

Not giving them a pass here, but at the same time let's not be naive.

If your wisdom led you to believe that you should comment on what is a naturally incendiary conversation without reading the article I'm not sure I would trust your wisdom in believing what you think happened.

You are giving them a pass.  Idiots can say anything because stupid is gonna stupid. But you don't tolerate it, you call it out and say that's not okay. I don't care how old anyone is.  If I can call out my father for his ignorance I can certainly call out a stranger.

Naive is pretending it should be accepted because someone grew up in a different era.

Edited February 7 by LTS

[pi2000]

26 minutes ago, LTS said:

If your wisdom led you to believe that you should comment on what is a naturally incendiary conversation without reading the article I'm not sure I would trust your wisdom in believing what you think happened.

You are giving them a pass.  Idiots can say anything because stupid is gonna stupid. But you don't tolerate it, you call it out and say that's not okay. I don't care how old anyone is.  If I can call out my father for his ignorance I can certainly call out a stranger.

Naive is pretending it should be accepted because someone grew up in a different era.

II I signed up to play in a women's league (hey it's 2024, why not!), do I have a right to get upset when they chirp me and tell me I don't belong out there?   I would be shocked if they didn't tho haha.    But what if I really like women's hockey and want to play at that level?   Isn't "hockey for everyone"? 

Edited February 7 by pi2000

[SDS]

15 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

II I signed up to play in a women's league (hey it's 2024, why not!), do I have a right to get upset when they chirp me and tell me I don't belong out there?   I would be shocked if they didn't tho haha.    But what if I really like women's hockey and want to play at that level?   Isn't "hockey for everyone"? 

This is not as clever as you think it is.

[Pimlach]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:42 PM, Weave said:

Agreed.  I would expect that someone, and not just from her team either, should have said something.  Made it known that a line is being crossed.

Defending her honor like she’s some damsel in distress though, ugh. 

I guess there is a generational difference between me and you. 

I never played hockey with girls or women.  They didn’t play back then, at least not in my world.  Even when my two sons played, only one girl played in their youth league with them - on all boys teams.  When they got to checking age, she joined a girls league.  So I have little experience with the problem.  

Because of my upbringing, I would have backed her and would have tried to influence better behavior.  If that makes me a  misogynist it’s not meant to be.   Defending the weaker, especially when outnumbered and dealing with a known tough guy, takes courage.  

Someone should have known better.  This lady is a hockey coach, not a random person wanting to prove something.  
 

The lost progress you speak of is not in defending her, it’s that no one was willing to do it.   If we teach our boys better, then maybe the majority of the players would have put an end to it.  

Edited February 8 by Pimlach

[shrader]

46 minutes ago, LTS said:

If your wisdom led you to believe that you should comment on what is a naturally incendiary conversation without reading the article I'm not sure I would trust your wisdom in believing what you think happened.

You are giving them a pass.  Idiots can say anything because stupid is gonna stupid. But you don't tolerate it, you call it out and say that's not okay. I don't care how old anyone is.  If I can call out my father for his ignorance I can certainly call out a stranger.

Naive is pretending it should be accepted because someone grew up in a different era.

Isn’t it also naive to assume that one person’s telling of an incident is 100% accurate? I’m sorry, but I’m very skeptical of this story as written. D1 coach sitting in the corner crying? There’s some massive exaggeration at play here. 

[ska-T Chitown]

6 minutes ago, shrader said:

Isn’t it also naive to assume that one person’s telling of an incident is 100% accurate? I’m sorry, but I’m very skeptical of this story as written. D1 coach sitting in the corner crying? There’s some massive exaggeration at play here. 

"she must have done something to deserve [X,Y,Z}"  Boo, I say to you! Boo. That is hot garbage.

[shrader]

9 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

"she must have done something to deserve [X,Y,Z}"  Boo, I say to you! Boo. That is hot garbage.

So now I’m saying that she deserved something that I don’t believe actually happened? The logic checks out. 

[pi2000]

28 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

"she must have done something to deserve [X,Y,Z}"  Boo, I say to you! Boo. That is hot garbage.

It's also "hot grabage" when an inflammatory piece comes out but only tells one side of the story.

I'm sure if the other team was asked about it they'd paint a different picture.... and the truth lies somewhere in-between.

[ska-T Chitown]

33 minutes ago, shrader said:

So now I’m saying that she deserved something that I don’t believe actually happened? The logic checks out. 

So, your actual defense is that you don't believe the woman who is writing about her experience at all? That is actually worse.

12 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It's also "hot grabage" when an inflammatory piece comes out but only tells one side of the story.

I'm sure if the other team was asked about it they'd paint a different picture.... and the truth lies somewhere in-between.

No, you are absolutely right ... believing a person's story is the worst thing we can do.

 

The combined IQ-lowering effect of these statements is staggering. I will say I am not accusing either of you of this directly, but these types of attitudes are exactly why women are afraid to come forward with claims of abuse - because they are afraid no one will believe them. Do better.

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

So, your actual defense is that you don't believe the woman who is writing about her experience at all? That is actually worse.

Did you see that word “exaggeration” earlier? I can link you to a dictionary if you’d like. But hey, I’m not the one out here going on about IQ lowering. 

[ska-T Chitown]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Did you see that word “exaggeration” earlier? I can link you to a dictionary if you’d like. But hey, I’m not the one out here going on about IQ lowering. 

You may have said exaggeration earlier and I suppose there might be multiple ways to interpret this, but you said:

So, yes - you said "don't believe actually happened".

I stand by my statement that not believing women when they come forward to report abuse (of any kind) is a problem.

[shrader]

11 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

You may have said exaggeration earlier and I suppose there might be multiple ways to interpret this, but you said:

So, yes - you said "don't believe actually happened".

I stand by my statement that not believing women when they come forward to report abuse (of any kind) is a problem.

The story as written, yes, I don't believe that happened.  If you exaggerate and modify the story to make people look as bad as possible, the story is no longer true.  I do believe that some jackasses treated her poorly, but I very highly doubt that she was chased around for the entire game post-hit and was driven to tears.  We are talking about a D1 athlete here. 

And there's a huge difference between not believing womEn when they make an accusation vs. not believing womAn.  I prefer to judge each incident individually and not just throw a blanket over everything.  This specific story, as presented in that article and the twitter post, it just feels like it's a bit too far off in fantasy land to me.  It doesn't add up.  Even little things like sitting around in the lobby expecting an apology.  Who does that?

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

The story as written, yes, I don't believe that happened.  If you exaggerate and modify the story to make people look as bad as possible, the story is no longer true.  I do believe that some jackasses treated her poorly, but I very highly doubt that she was chased around for the entire game post-hit and was driven to tears.  We are talking about a D1 athlete here. 

And there's a huge difference between not believing womEn when they make an accusation vs. not believing womAn.  I prefer to judge each incident individually and not just throw a blanket over everything.  This specific story, as presented in that article and the twitter post, it just feels like it's a bit too far off in fantasy land to me.  It doesn't add up.  Even little things like sitting around in the lobby expecting an apology.  Who does that?

FWIW, I 100% believe a bunch of bros "chased [her] around for the entire game post-hit" chripping. That's like the most plausible bro thing I can think of, other than one taking another run at her to really "teach her a lesson". Have you been around sports bros? (I'm asking in jest, I'm sure you have)

If I was trying to do something I enjoyed and a bunch of bros kept harassing me, I'd probably be driven to tears too. I aware of myself enough to know that. FWIW, I wouldn't have waited around after the game though, toxic bros gonna toxic and there's nothing that's going to break through that tough-guy shell to the fragile little child inside.

[pi2000]

9 minutes ago, MattPie said:

FWIW, I 100% believe a bunch of bros "chased [her] around for the entire game post-hit" chripping. That's like the most plausible bro thing I can think of, other than one taking another run at her to really "teach her a lesson". Have you been around sports bros? (I'm asking in jest, I'm sure you have)

If I was trying to do something I enjoyed and a bunch of bros kept harassing me, I'd probably be driven to tears too. I aware of myself enough to know that. FWIW, I wouldn't have waited around after the game though, toxic bros gonna toxic and there's nothing that's going to break through that tough-guy shell to the fragile little child inside.

FWIW, I 100% believe a woman complained about chripping. That's like the most plausible woman thing I can think of, other than one filing a lawsuit to really "teach them a lesson".  Have you been around women? (I'm asking in jest, I'm sure you have)

If I was trying to do something I enjoyed and a bunch of women kept complaining, I'd probably be driven to tears too. I aware of myself enough to know that. FWIW, I wouldn't have waited around after the game though, toxic women gonna toxic and there's nothing that's going to break through that feminist shell to the fragile little child inside.