Jack Quinn, Injured Again

[msw2112]

As to the discussion about the discussion of "injury prone," here's my take:  a injury-prone player is a player who is a) genetically predisposed to injury more than the average player (the shape of their body parts or natural distribution of weight in their bodies puts more strain on certain areas as knees, ankles, achilles, shoulder, spine, etc.) or b) trains in such a way that makes them more predisposed to injury than the average player (maybe they don't stretch enough, they don't use proper form when lifting weights, or they bulk up too much on their upper body and not enough on their lower body, leaving the muscles around knees, ankles, or back weaker and thus providing less protection from contact).

I would not call Quinn injury-prone based on his most recent injury.  He was taken down and slid into the boards in an awkward position, causing a bad impact that would have likely injured most players.  It's a coincidence that this event occurred a few weeks after he returned from his achilles injury.

I don't know whether his achilles injury would be related to being injury-prone, as I don't know how it happened.  Is his achilles tendon genetically weaker than that of other NHL players? (Then, yes, he may be injury prone.)  Does the way he walks, runs, or skates put more pressure on his achilles tendon that is typical of other players? (Then yes).  Or did he lose his footing while doing squats because he tripped over a 25 lb. plate that was in the way, he didn't see, and caused his leg to twist in such a way that his tendon tore and that would have torn most players' tendon? (Then no).

For those that are injury prone, a great strength and conditioning program, including a sports nutrition program can make a big difference.  If the S&C coach and trainers can identify those areas where a player's body sustains more pressure or is weaker than other players', certain exercises can be done to strengthen the weak areas, or equipment like a brace can help protect a weaker area.  I'm not a doctor or physical therapist, and I realize that ligaments and tendons cannot be strengthened, but the muscles around them can, and taping and/or braces can help protect an area of weakness.  None of this can completely prevent an injury based on a really hard collision that would break bones or severely tear a tendon or ligament.

[Sabres73]

22 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I think you underestimate the amount of time it takes to recover from surgery. 

The organization, with their extensive medical staff, said about 8 weeks. At that point if they clear him, he plays, simple as that.

[That Aud Smell]

52 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

The organization, with their extensive medical staff, said about 8 weeks. At that point if they clear him, he plays, simple as that.

Oy. There’s a ramping-up period after a player is cleared to return to play. And I inferred that it’s 8 weeks for a return to play.

[SwampD]

This injury sucks. I liked watching him play.

There was nothing wrong with the hit. It was a routine play along the boards.

[matter2003]

On 1/31/2024 at 9:36 PM, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I think you underestimate the amount of time it takes to recover from surgery. 

I think you underestimate how much faster a person will heal when given around the clock cutting edge treatments with trained medical staff at their beck and call versus the average person who does likely not even 1/10th of the treatments and PT/rehab he will be doing and has no such staff of medical professionals on call 24/7.

[TheAud]

22 hours ago, msw2112 said:

As to the discussion about the discussion of "injury prone," here's my take:  a injury-prone player is a player who is a) genetically predisposed to injury more than the average player (the shape of their body parts or natural distribution of weight in their bodies puts more strain on certain areas as knees, ankles, achilles, shoulder, spine, etc.) or b) trains in such a way that makes them more predisposed to injury than the average player (maybe they don't stretch enough, they don't use proper form when lifting weights, or they bulk up too much on their upper body and not enough on their lower body, leaving the muscles around knees, ankles, or back weaker and thus providing less protection from contact).

I would not call Quinn injury-prone based on his most recent injury.  He was taken down and slid into the boards in an awkward position, causing a bad impact that would have likely injured most players.  It's a coincidence that this event occurred a few weeks after he returned from his achilles injury.

I don't know whether his achilles injury would be related to being injury-prone, as I don't know how it happened.  Is his achilles tendon genetically weaker than that of other NHL players? (Then, yes, he may be injury prone.)  Does the way he walks, runs, or skates put more pressure on his achilles tendon that is typical of other players? (Then yes).  Or did he lose his footing while doing squats because he tripped over a 25 lb. plate that was in the way, he didn't see, and caused his leg to twist in such a way that his tendon tore and that would have torn most players' tendon? (Then no).

For those that are injury prone, a great strength and conditioning program, including a sports nutrition program can make a big difference.  If the S&C coach and trainers can identify those areas where a player's body sustains more pressure or is weaker than other players', certain exercises can be done to strengthen the weak areas, or equipment like a brace can help protect a weaker area.  I'm not a doctor or physical therapist, and I realize that ligaments and tendons cannot be strengthened, but the muscles around them can, and taping and/or braces can help protect an area of weakness.  None of this can completely prevent an injury based on a really hard collision that would break bones or severely tear a tendon or ligament.

I think there is a (c) as well. That is a player not quite athletic enough or aware enough (a form of athleticism) to avoid injuries in the natural course of the sport they play. An example might be Tua Tagovailoa. He actually took martial arts classes and "learned how to fall" this off-season to help avoid injuries (it seemed to help). The opposite end of the scale is Josh Allen. Yes, he's built like a tank but also his innate athleticism and ability to anticipate hits and move his body in such a way as to avoid injury is also part of his incredible streak of no missed games despite all the hits he takes. 

In hockey I feel like Cale Makar has a bit of the Tua issue not in that he isn't a good enough athlete, but rather he plays with a recklessness at times that doesn't protect his body. Actually, playing with excessive recklessness might be (d) in the list of types of injury prone athletes. 

 

Edited February 2 by TheAud

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I think you underestimate how much faster a person will heal when given around the clock cutting edge treatments with trained medical staff at their beck and call versus the average person who does likely not even 1/10th of the treatments and PT/rehab he will be doing and has no such staff of medical professionals on call 24/7.

That's well and good, and sure helps bring young, in shape and "rich" with medical staff around the clock. But there isn't any proven way to remodel bone faster and other than PRP and ultrasound Shockwave therapy, etc these things take time, we can cut off a little bit of time from the above mentioned. 

Maybe he will come back in 6 weeks. A lot of pro athletes do it all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually ready to. It's typically case by case (must win game, playoffs on the line, etc) this current iteration of the buffalo sabres at this point in time, has zero reason to rush any healing injury. In 6 weeks if were knocking on the door, maybe we can revisit that. 

[Norcal]

Might as well shut him down but I'd bet he wants to get back to play this season. 

[Sabres73]

44 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

That's well and good, and sure helps bring young, in shape and "rich" with medical staff around the clock. But there isn't any proven way to remodel bone faster and other than PRP and ultrasound Shockwave therapy, etc these things take time, we can cut off a little bit of time from the above mentioned. 

Maybe he will come back in 6 weeks. A lot of pro athletes do it all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually ready to. It's typically case by case (must win game, playoffs on the line, etc) this current iteration of the buffalo sabres at this point in time, has zero reason to rush any healing injury. In 6 weeks if were knocking on the door, maybe we can revisit that. 

I guess we need to listen to you instead of the medical staff.

[That Aud Smell]

21 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I guess we need to listen to you instead of the medical staff.

Lol - simmer down. The medical insights of actual physicians - such as @Wyldnwoody44 - are valued here.

[Pimlach]

It amazes me at the number of medical experts we have here. 

The 8 weeks is an estimate.  It might take longer and it could be less.   The season will most likely be over for the Sabres before Quinn is ready.  If it is then why rush him?  Makes no sense and the last thing he needs is something else to happen.  

 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, Norcal said:

I'd bet he wants to get back to play this season. 

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The season will most likely be over for the Sabres before Quinn is ready.  If it is then why rush him?  Makes no sense and the last thing he needs is something else to happen.  

The thing that keeps coming to mind for me: Like all pro athletes (good "pros," anyway), these guys are year-round  world class hockey players. So I'm confident that, if Quinn's well enough to play NHL hockey, he'll be raring to go -- even if there were only a few games left with Buffalo mathematically eliminated. He'd want to get that run in as he heads to the offseason.

[Norcal]

19 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The thing that keeps coming to mind for me: Like all pro athletes (good "pros," anyway), these guys are year-round  world class hockey players. So I'm confident that, if Quinn's well enough to play NHL hockey, he'll be raring to go -- even if there were only a few games left with Buffalo mathematically eliminated. He'd want to get that run in as he heads to the offseason.

Give him a little momentum going into the offseason. Makes sense. 

[SabreFinn]

What does the rules say, could he play for Americans in Calder cup playoffs?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

I guess we need to listen to you instead of the medical staff.

How can anyone who read @Wyldnwoody44's knowledgeable professional response to Quinn's injury and the rehab timetable not appreciate his contribution on this particular topic? He informed us on the nature of the injury and the usual timetable to get back to form. What was the purpose of your sarcastic response to his educated comment on this issue? 

My response to @Wyldnwoody44 is thank you for your contribution. I now know more about Quinn's injury and likely/unlikely return because of your post. 

[Norcal]

7 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

What does the rules say, could he play for Americans in Calder cup playoffs?

Would you play him if he could?

[SabreFinn]

Just now, Norcal said:

Would you play him if he could?

I would not Rush him, definitely not, but he is young and need to play games to develop, so if medical experts say he is good to go and no risks exept from the normal game situations, then it is ok with me. Playoff-games is a boost and gives routine. With some luck he could build chemistry with other Sabre prospects, like he and JJ did.

[Sabres73]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

How can anyone who read @Wyldnwoody44's knowledgeable professional response to Quinn's injury and the rehab timetable not appreciate his contribution on this particular topic? He informed us on the nature of the injury and the usual timetable to get back to form. What was the purpose of your sarcastic response to his educated comment on this issue? 

My response to @Wyldnwoody44 is thank you for your contribution. I now know more about Quinn's injury and likely/unlikely return because of your post. 

Because I trust the Sabres medical team with their care of Quinn. Quinn is not a patient of the internet poster doctor, who is speculating. Lighten up.

[Wyldnwoody44]

24 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

Because I trust the Sabres medical team with their care of Quinn. Quinn is not a patient of the internet poster doctor, who is speculating. Lighten up.

I trust a good portion of the sabres medical team.. I know a few of them personally. But, I also know some that I wouldn't vouch for... Just like in any hospital I've ever worked at 😂

I'm not Ortho expert by any means, but I do have a heavy hand in dealing with trauma. This is a message board, none of us know anything. Hell, even my diagnosis guess could be way off, but it just fits from what I have seen and the timing. 

I'm also getting older and feel like getting out of bed causes an 8 week injury these days. 

I've been posting here for over 10 years now I believe, I've had many medical discussion with the patrons of this board. I'm not upset by your take on it. If Quinn was my patient, I wouldn't be at liberty to say what was going on. 

My "opinion" is that it's stupid to have him play at the end of a meaningless season. Strengthening the surrounding muscles after an injury of this nature will pay huge dividends for future Quinn, I'd personally take the extra few weeks of heavy rehab so next year, he can come back with even less risk to his twice affected lower half. 

Any who, agree to disagree here 🍺

[Quint]

19 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

The organization, with their extensive medical staff, said about 8 weeks. At that point if they clear him, he plays, simple as that.

"Extensive medical staff..." 😂

[PerreaultForever]

22 hours ago, msw2112 said:

As to the discussion about the discussion of "injury prone," here's my take:  a injury-prone player is a player who is a) genetically predisposed to injury more than the average player (the shape of their body parts or natural distribution of weight in their bodies puts more strain on certain areas as knees, ankles, achilles, shoulder, spine, etc.) or b) trains in such a way that makes them more predisposed to injury than the average player (maybe they don't stretch enough, they don't use proper form when lifting weights, or they bulk up too much on their upper body and not enough on their lower body, leaving the muscles around knees, ankles, or back weaker and thus providing less protection from contact).

I would not call Quinn injury-prone based on his most recent injury.  He was taken down and slid into the boards in an awkward position, causing a bad impact that would have likely injured most players.  It's a coincidence that this event occurred a few weeks after he returned from his achilles injury.

I don't know whether his achilles injury would be related to being injury-prone, as I don't know how it happened.  Is his achilles tendon genetically weaker than that of other NHL players? (Then, yes, he may be injury prone.)  Does the way he walks, runs, or skates put more pressure on his achilles tendon that is typical of other players? (Then yes).  Or did he lose his footing while doing squats because he tripped over a 25 lb. plate that was in the way, he didn't see, and caused his leg to twist in such a way that his tendon tore and that would have torn most players' tendon? (Then no).

For those that are injury prone, a great strength and conditioning program, including a sports nutrition program can make a big difference.  If the S&C coach and trainers can identify those areas where a player's body sustains more pressure or is weaker than other players', certain exercises can be done to strengthen the weak areas, or equipment like a brace can help protect a weaker area.  I'm not a doctor or physical therapist, and I realize that ligaments and tendons cannot be strengthened, but the muscles around them can, and taping and/or braces can help protect an area of weakness.  None of this can completely prevent an injury based on a really hard collision that would break bones or severely tear a tendon or ligament.

It's not just that though. Your strength matters. How you play the game matters. Your on ice awareness matters. 

It's too early to say Quinn is injury prone, but imo we are rushing most of these guys and at the same time I do not think we put enough into strength and conditioning, physical development. He's a bit of a light weight. Injuries like this can happen to anybody though. The faster you play the more open you are to bad outcomes should you lose your balance for any reason. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

Because I trust the Sabres medical team with their care of Quinn. Quinn is not a patient of the internet poster doctor, who is speculating. Lighten up.

I don't understand where you are coming from. He gave an opinion based on his medical experience. Although he doesn't have any inside knowledge about this particular case, his conjecturing about the injury and timeline based on his experience is consistent with the information that is coming out.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this mostly an opinion forum?

[K-9]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand where you are coming from. He gave an opinion based on his medical experience. Although he doesn't have any inside knowledge about this particular case, his conjecturing about the injury and timeline based on his experience is consistent with the information that is coming out.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this mostly an opinion forum?

 

Somebody had to do it.

Edited February 2 by K-9

[Thorner]

On 1/31/2024 at 7:24 PM, Quint said:

Because the Sabres will be out of the playoffs by then. You don't want to risk him injuring himself seriously again with less than ten games left. A whole summer to rehab himself and you have a new, completely healed Quinn.

He’s a paid professional and there are paying customers and the commitment to winning would be disastrous to step back from. If he’s not fully healed at 8 weeks, of course, OF COURSE, sit him. But if he’s fully healthy he’s fully healthy. Use the remaining games to improve your own 

We haven’t made the playoffs in 13 years. We absolutely can’t have the hubris to act like a single solitary game can be afforded to be willingly passed up by this franchise. *Every single moment* available to them as professionals on the job should be utilized - if they have respect, at all, for the fan base. 

Edited February 4 by Thorny

[Thorner]

On 1/31/2024 at 9:49 PM, Sabres73 said:

None of these players are injury prone. There's a difference between having multiple injuries and being injury prone. Injury prone is more like a shoulder that has a history of keeping popping out. Or a chronic knee injury. Quinn has just had bad luck so far.

I disagree. Some players demonstrably have game-styles that more often put them in the line of fire for injuries: “prone” can also be representative of the situational. Bogosian was a good example  

Samuelson is clearly injury prone. I’m not ready to get there with Quinn 

On 1/31/2024 at 11:49 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

Isn't that the definition of injury prone? Continually getting injured? 

Once the sample size gets large enough