Sabres are one of the slowest playing teams in the league

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Digging through the site a bit more, some interesting things:

-Tuch seems to be the one who is peforming worse/slower this year compared to last year. His 'speed bursts' per game are WAY down.

-Skinner seems to farther down the list of top speed on the team and also a very low number of 'speed burts' over 20 mph. Way less than I thought.

-Zemgus has one of the highest top speeds on the team, AND one of the higher number of bursts over 20mph. When you figure in his ice time, I'd guess he leads the team (both last year and this year) in speed burts over 20mph with respect to his ice time.

For anyone interested, the highest top speeds recoreed this year  of forwards: (League leaders: Owen Tippet 24.21, Braydon Point 24.15, Nate MacKinnon 24.05, McDavid 24.05,)

Sabres Forwards:

Tuch 22.99 MPH

Zemgus 22.88

Thompson 22.64

Peterka 22.43

Cozens 22.36

Krebs 22.36

Mitts 22.16

Skinner 22.04

Robinson 21.92

Olofsson 21.76

Greenway 21.72

Quinn 21.71

Okposo 21.53

Tyson Jost  21.08

Rosen 21.05

Kulich 20.83

Benson 20.80 

 

Highest skating speeds recorded all year by Defensemen: (league leaders:  Mackenzie Weeger 23.61, Zach Werenski 23.50, Sam Girard 23.43, Miro Heiskanen 23.36)

Samuelsson 22.43

Clifton 21.96

Jokiharju  21.70

Bryson 21.52

Dahlin 21.44

Ryan Johnson 21.35

Power 21.27

Eric Johnson 21.22

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would wager he's been dealing with a groin injury or a sport hernia the entire season.  Not bad enough to shut him down, but it is noticable when he pulls up and then can't get that extra step he had the past 2 seasons for the rest of a game.

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would wager he's been dealing with a groin injury or a sport hernia the entire season.  Not bad enough to shut him down, but it is noticable when he pulls up and then can't get that extra step he had the past 2 seasons for the rest of a game.

Seems to make sense. His 'top speed' is about the same as last year, but he is pushing himself to get to top speed MUCH less than last year.

[PerreaultForever]

They are not "slow" but they have a tendency to stop skating, stand around, quit on plays, watch. When they "keep moving their feet" as Ray likes to say often they are not a slow team at all. Quite the reverse. 

The rhetoric said we want to be Carolina, but for that we need a fast aggressive forecheck, and that is still absent. 

[Southern Sabres Fan]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:06 PM, PerreaultForever said:

They are not "slow" but they have a tendency to stop skating, stand around, quit on plays, watch. When they "keep moving their feet" as Ray likes to say often they are not a slow team at all. Quite the reverse. 

The rhetoric said we want to be Carolina, but for that we need a fast aggressive forecheck, and that is still absent. 

I agree with this. I believe that it comes from knowing that the coach won't give you any pushback when you don't hustle. 

[Doohicksie]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:12 PM, mjd1001 said:

Highest skating speeds recorded all year by Defensemen: (league leaders:  Mackenzie Weeger 23.61, Zach Werenski 23.50, Sam Girard 23.43, Miro Heiskanen 23.36)

Samuelsson 22.43

Clifton 21.96

Muel and Cliffy are the top 2?  That surprised me.

[Doohicksie]

On 1/27/2024 at 8:06 PM, PerreaultForever said:

They are not "slow" but they have a tendency to stop skating, stand around, quit on plays, watch. When they "keep moving their feet" as Ray likes to say often they are not a slow team at all. Quite the reverse. 

The rhetoric said we want to be Carolina, but for that we need a fast aggressive forecheck, and that is still absent. 

This has always been true.  When they've been good, this is how they played.  When they don't move their feet they suck.  This is universal for as long as I've followed the team.

[Doohicksie]

I've seen a few times lately where there is a puck coming toward the point with a Buffalo forward chasing an opponent, and the defense could easily pinch and keep the puck in, but they skate back.  Risk it!  There's a forward coming back; it's only going to turn into a disaster if you miss the puck cleanly.  But if you're the first one there you will control the puck.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

This has always been true.  When they've been good, this is how they played.  When they don't move their feet they suck.  This is universal for as long as I've followed the team.

Well it's kind of true for all hockey teams but what I think is really missing from this team is a constant aggressive forecheck. It's pretty clear that we have no plans to play shut down hockey and tight defense. Our defense is based on the idea of getting it out of our end quickly and then possessing the puck down the ice. Best defense is a good offense kind of simplification That's clear, and it's also clear that what it leads to is possession around the wall with low danger scoring chances and when we don't have the puck in our own end we often crumble and look disorganized. We flounder. We don't box out well and net front kills us. 

With the style they want to develop the missing ingredient is the heavy forecheck. That includes finishing checks, hitting their D, puck battles, tenacity. Knocking them off the puck. Hurrying them. Creating that same sort of mess and confusion in their end. Florida style. If we added this to the current system we might be on to something. At the very least it would be far more exciting and fun to watch but I think with the skill players we have they could cash in heavily on that chaos, much like Reinhart is in Florida. 

We really have to decide and go with it. Either tighten up and back check. 1-2-2 or 1-3-1    OR turn that around and go all out 2-1-2 or 2-2-1. With the speed and size we have I really think the latter could work, but it would take an added element of physicality that we don't have at this point or at least don't use. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

but it would take an added element of physicality that we don't have at this point or at least don't use. 

I don't think it's physicality as much as persistence.  You don't have to flatten the other guy, you just need to disrupt him enough to separate him from the puck.  Too often the Sabres at both end of the rink do quick fly-by's and try to poke the puck away, but if not successful they just skate on by.  No.  They need to persistently pursue the puck carrier and bully him into giving it away.  That can have a physical aspect to it, but it can also just be chasing/blocking/hurrying the puck carrier until he makes a mistake.  There can be several aspects to persistence... tools in the toolbox... including physicality but also speed, active sticks, and positioning.  I mean Benson is as good at this stuff as anyone and he's hardly an imposing physical presence.

[TageMVP]

21 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I don't think it's physicality as much as persistence.  You don't have to flatten the other guy, you just need to disrupt him enough to separate him from the puck.  Too often the Sabres at both end of the rink do quick fly-by's and try to poke the puck away, but if not successful they just skate on by.  No.  They need to persistently pursue the puck carrier and bully him into giving it away.  That can have a physical aspect to it, but it can also just be chasing/blocking/hurrying the puck carrier until he makes a mistake.  There can be several aspects to persistence... tools in the toolbox... including physicality but also speed, active sticks, and positioning.  I mean Benson is as good at this stuff as anyone and he's hardly an imposing physical presence.

Be relentless 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I don't think it's physicality as much as persistence.  You don't have to flatten the other guy, you just need to disrupt him enough to separate him from the puck.  Too often the Sabres at both end of the rink do quick fly-by's and try to poke the puck away, but if not successful they just skate on by.  No.  They need to persistently pursue the puck carrier and bully him into giving it away.  That can have a physical aspect to it, but it can also just be chasing/blocking/hurrying the puck carrier until he makes a mistake.  There can be several aspects to persistence... tools in the toolbox... including physicality but also speed, active sticks, and positioning.  I mean Benson is as good at this stuff as anyone and he's hardly an imposing physical presence.

Well yes, that's what I mean by "winning puck battles". They have to finish their checks though. They don't have to pound people around but at times you do have to make contact. If you don't, the opposition knows it and plays accordingly. 

[FrenchConnection44]

On 1/26/2024 at 5:27 PM, mjd1001 said:

I didn't know about the NHL edge site, I stumbled upon it today.

Lot of tracking data, I thought the Sabres were always one of the faster teams in the league, but not even close.

They track individual players, teams, Top speed attained skating by forwards, by defensemen, and the total number of 'burts' each player/team has had over 18mph, over 20mph, and over 22mph.

What does the data show? Sabres are, or at least they play VERY slow.

Only 14 times all year have they had a player with over a 22mph speed (70% less than leage AVERAGE) . 716 times over 20 (23% less than average) .  3982 over 18mph (5.5% below league average)

I didn't go through every team, but in the first chart below, the closer you are to the outer edge of the circle, the higher you rank compared to other teams, the closer you are to the center, the closer you are to worst in the league.

Here is the link to the Sabres page on the site:  https://edge.nhl.com/en/team/BUF

 

This is great stuff. And I agree. We don’t have super fast skaters. As the old adage goes, speed kills. We really do need to add speed to the lineup. Drafting speed at this point is not a fix given how long it takes for a prospect to develop and get to the NHL level, let alone whether he will pan out. 
 

And in conjunction with that, we need better skaters. Losing Quinn all this year hurts to some degree. 
 

But with respect to our recent draft choices, both Benson and Power need to learn to skate better and improve their speed significantly. Power is not a great skater nor that fast - but for his size he should be able to make up ground. We should have in place a strong skating development coach and program. But, of course, Pegula has no ingenuity in that regard. 
 

[CallawaySabres]

Does this mean no playoffs??

[mjd1001]

16 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

This is great stuff. And I agree. We don’t have super fast skaters. As the old adage goes, speed kills. We really do need to add speed to the lineup. Drafting speed at this point is not a fix given how long it takes for a prospect to develop and get to the NHL level, let alone whether he will pan out. 
 

And in conjunction with that, we need better skaters. Losing Quinn all this year hurts to some degree. 
 

But with respect to our recent draft choices, both Benson and Power need to learn to skate better and improve their speed significantly. Power is not a great skater nor that fast - but for his size he should be able to make up ground. We should have in place a strong skating development coach and program. But, of course, Pegula has no ingenuity in that regard. 
 

I agree on Power. EVERYONE can be a great skater, but on D you don't need blazing speed unless you are a special talent that goes end-to-end like Paul Coffee used to (or to a certain extent, Housley for the Sabres).  The forwards though, it would be nice to have a couple guys that have the abilty to blow past defenders on a regular basis.  I think Tuch and Zemgus are the only 2 that have the ability to do that, but they don't even do it that often.