Blow the Whole Team up in the Off-Season - It's the Only Reasonable Thing to do

[Quint]

Blowing the team up...we need a different owner to guide the restructuring. I don't trust Adams for a minute to make a good trade or conduct a draft for the type of players the Sabres need. Do NOT invest your hockey/football souls with Meddlin' Terry. He keeps hiring people who resemble himself .... DUDS...and he keeps swinging for the fences with for the same DUD PLAYERS.

Terry Pegula is a DUD and he's the driving force behind all of the Sabres* failures. *and Bills.

Edited January 24 by Quint

[TageMVP]

I understand the thread. I understand being annoyed beyond belief. 

Blowing it up has not worked, look to the past 12 years. 

Tim Murray:

Nepotism, not enough knowledge, call it what you like. His very strategy was "blow it up". It's STILL lingering to this day. Trade Miller, trade Halak, trade Neuvirth, get Lehner. Oops. Tank for Eichel, whoops. Could go on and on and on but we all know what he was like. 

Bylsma got fired after two years. TWO. With a brand new Eichel. Firing coaches after two years will always be stupid to me. Regardless of what people thought of him. Two years is like two days to me, not enough time. I'd consider that under the blow it up strategy.

Jason Botterill: 

Assistant Gm, not enough knowledge to begin with, former player. Doomed. 

Blows it up by trading O'Reilly. Horrible trade, still not good enough. I dont care that Tage scored 47 last year. O'Reilly has a CUP. Botterill should have offered to be O'Reillys butler to get him to stay. You keep your best players or try your very hardest. I dont believe for one second he did. 

Hires Housley, fired after two years. Too soon whether he's a good coach or not. Although, Housley was clueless. Changing the lines mid game every game drove me nuts. 

Hires a coach that had been out of hockey in Ralph and was a loser anyway while a coach. Hey, maybe that's why Ralph left hockey? He knew he wasn't good at hockey? Lol. That to me is the most headscratching coach hire I've ever seen. That's no different than hiring the local plumber to be your coach. Botterill fired and Ralph fired very quickly, I'd categorize that as blowing it up. Firing guys after 2 years is blowing it up. 

List goes on about both of them.

Adams: 

Traded Eichel. Guy gets the neck surgery he wanted and wins the cup, lol. Of course. I dont disagree with the Jack trade, however. His attitude was always a problem and he requested a trade anyway. But trading your best player at the time is still blowing it up. 

Fires Ralph mid season. Hires Granato and here we are. 

In my humble opinion, Adams needs to fire Granato and as soon as possible and avoid blowing it all up. The scoring talent is there. 296 goals last year. Granato needs to go.  

List goes on. 

Common denominators: 

Blowing it up has been tried 388733443 times the last 12 years, hasn't worked. 

Pegula is to blame for consistently hiring GMs who are in over their head who in turn hire the wrong coaches. Leading to blowing it up.

Only one GM had the knowledge and track record since Pegula took over to right the ship. And he was fired during his legitimate start of a rebuild. 

Regier was right. And it would have been done correctly, firing Regier started all of this. 

It all starts with Pegula. 

[Goldseatsaud]

Need an owner who gives a *****!!!!

The owner said come to rink and fill my pockets. 

[That Aud Smell]

I am fine with any course of action, including a complete tear down.

There's not a single player on this roster that I feel should absolutely not be traded.

They have skidded into being one of my least favourite Sabre teams ever.

[Goldseatsaud]

Who the hell would want to play for meatball and adams?? It’s a frickin joke 

[phil_soisson]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

One issue that puzzles me.  We have effectively season-long slumps from our top 4 forwards (Thompson, Skinner, Tuch, Cozens) and our top 3 defencemen (Dahlin, Samuelsson, and Power).  Yes, some of their problems are injury-related, but finding an answer to this question would help in deciding what to do.  For instance, maybe they just over-achieved the last couple of seasons, in which case we should sell high on at least a couple of them.  Maybe it just happens (e.g., there is an abbreviated Buffalo-Winnipeg game on YouTube from 1985-6 where the HNIC announcers mention that the Winnipeg Jets were plunging in the standings because their top 3 marksmen, Hawerchuk, McLean, and Steen, all had an off-year), in which case a new voice gives a new positive vibe (head coach).  Maybe the lack of different skills on the team has been exploited by the other coaches.

I place the initial responsibility on the assistant coaches.  The next comes with a mix of the head coach, players, and general manager.  I would attack this problem in that order if possible.

I don't think it's possible; Granato doesn't have the stones to can any assistant coaches. He'll accept his firing with responsibility when it happens, along with the contract extension he got. Which brings me to another point: Pegula, and/or his agents, mind boggling habit, whether it's the Sabres or Bills, of giving big money contracts to players with scant bodies of work, or coaching/management extensions using the same rationale. This in turn gives rise to moving them, or firing respectively, later rather than sooner, so as to minimize the initial mistake of throwing good money after bad.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Much easier to fire the coaches and see if the team responds.

[Hawerchuk]

Terry Pegula is a total moron. I hate this guy. Sure its the players on the ice and the coach and GM, I get that, but Terry hasn't hired any real hockey veterans to run this club. He meddles in everything and he doesn't know jack squat.

[Stoner]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Much easier to fire the coaches and see if the team responds.

You don't think Kevyn knows why he has the job? He's not going to cost Terry one plugged nickel by firing people who are under contract. That decision will come from Terry. All bets are off there. Track record would suggest changes, but the Decade of the Yacht is looming, too.

[Goldseatsaud]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Much easier to fire the coaches and see if the team responds.

The owner isnt concerned about Sabres 

Edited January 24 by Goldseatsaud

[That Aud Smell]

9 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

Terry Pegula is a total moron. I hate this guy. Sure its the players on the ice and the coach and GM, I get that, but Terry hasn't hired any real hockey veterans to run this club. He meddles in everything and he doesn't know jack squat.

I'd counter by suggesting that, of late, he's been completely absent. (For perhaps obvious and good reason.)

[Goldseatsaud]

Adams will stay the course. Why is the owner not caring? 

He is around the Bills for obvious reasons 

[Scottysabres]

Why has the NHL media across the board not made what's happened in Buffalo a national story?

I mean, you could literally have HBO or Netflix come in and do a "Stranger Things" type series based on the Sabres last 13 seasons, hell, last 30 years. 🤣 

[Weave]

36 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I am fine with any course of action, including a complete tear down.

There's not a single player on this roster that I feel should absolutely not be traded.

They have skidded into being one of my least favourite Sabre teams ever.

I am here as well.  Not a single individual should feel safe from getting moved, GM, coaches, players.  Even the “star” players and long term players.

Here is my concern.  The only real move we can make is change in coaching, or moves around the perimeter of the team.  Why?  Because we have not changed the “noone wants to play in Buffalo” problem.  Frankly, given the team’s record since the tank, I’m not convinced at all that a good, experienced, proven coach would be willing to come to Buffalo.  Including assistants. And thus, we have Matt Ellis coaching the powerplay.

We are in the grasp of a black hole of our own making, and we can’t break free of the intense gravitational forces that we set in play.  (We being YOU, Terrance)

I think KA is in over his head, but the options, not only available to him, but available to to replace him as well, are severely limited.

Noone that is a fan of this team should laugh at the fortunes of another team ever again.

[Goldseatsaud]

Why doesn’t he sell the franchise ? 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Some of the assistant coaches seem to be in over their heads.

It's the fine tuning that needs to be done.

The decision was made to sacrifice some offence for better defence.  Teaching defense takes time.

Playoff was likely not a reasonable goal this season with the change to focus on the defensive game.

The Sabres will be fine.  They need a bit more time.

I'm partially there on you. Although based on the general view on this forum, your post could be taken as sarcasm.

This season is probably lost. That sucks.

This team needs a big time, legit top 4 VETERAN D-man.  A legit 27-30 year old guy at the top of his game who has hundreds of games of experience and has seen it all. Not a vet that USED to be a top 4 guy. Not a vet who is really a 5/6 guy but you convince yourself is a top 4 guy. A Legit, quality, for sure top 4 guy.

I still don't think defense always has to come at the expense of offense.  I don't see odd-man rushes as being a bigger issue for this team being allowed than any other team. I see how the forwards play in their own zone as the big thing.  You can push and press as much as you did last year...go ahead and do that....what needs to change is how you play WHEN the other team has the puck in your own zone. They have, and still do suck at that.

Tage and Cozens.  Game by game I cannot think there is any issue bigger than those 2 and their drop in scoring. On January 24 of LAST year those two had given you 47 goals between them. This year they have 22. Less than half.  25 behind last years pace. The Sabres have 11 one goal losses, probably another 3 games that were 2 goal losses that WERE 1 goal losses before allowing an empty net goal.  So basically, they have 14-15 games that they were training by 1 goal at the end of it.  Sprinkle in those 25 missing goals from Tuch/Cozens pace of last year to this year...and how many of those 1 goal losses turn into points? 

Changing NOTHING but Tage and Cozens producing at last years rate and you are probably in the playoffs.  Suppose they had 'career' years last year and you don't get that, but you get a 20-25 goal pace from Cozens and Tage gives you his production from 2 years ago? That alone probably still gets you close to a playoff spot right now.   

Yeah, a lot of problems with this team (No GOOD vets on Defense, forwards are getting SLIGHTLY better in their own zone but still bad), but primarily those 2 guys scoring. You need to fix them.

 

[Marvin]

If memory serves, @Brawndo said that it is hard to get anyone to come to Buffalo at the best of times, be they players or coaches.  Am I correct?  In any event, what would need to be offered said quality, established coaches for them to come here?  I suspect that said conditions would be a very rude awakening for management.

[GoPuckYourself]

These GMs we get all seem to have the same mindset. Small, skilled forwards with hockey sense. Disregarding any toughness, guys who will stand in front of the net or play a solid 2 way game.

I mean look at the guys we have coming up, all are 5’10” or below and every 1 of them aside from Kulich bring the exact traits I was talking about. You need balance throughout and players willing to do that.

I find it hard to believe these guys all just suck all of a sudden but they don’t have any idea how to play a solid 2 way game and a HC apporhat doesn’t know how to either.

[msw2112]

I really like Don Granato and want him to succeed.  That said, I'm at the point where I think a new voice is needed behind the bench.  Granato has not been able to fix the power play and he has not been able to get a consistent effort out of the team.  Had the team played hard for even 50% of the game last night, they would have won easily.  Instead, they played hard for about 3 minutes, in which they scored twice.  It's not realistic to play balls-to-the-wall for 60 minutes every night, but the ridiculous lack of effort for 55 to 57 out of 60 minutes last night was pathetic.  This seems to be the case all-to-often with this team.

Before blowing up the whole roster, I think you have to try a coaching change first.  The team has plenty of talent, but that talent is not combined with the appropriate effort (and/or scheme).  A proven veteran coach may be able to have success with this roster.

[Hawerchuk]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm partially there on you. Although based on the general view on this forum, your post could be taken as sarcasm.

This season is probably lost. That sucks.

This team needs a big time, legit top 4 VETERAN D-man.  A legit 27-30 year old guy at the top of his game who has hundreds of games of experience and has seen it all. Not a vet that USED to be a top 4 guy. Not a vet who is really a 5/6 guy but you convince yourself is a top 4 guy. A Legit, quality, for sure top 4 guy.

 

Agree 100%. A player like Alex Pietrangelo of the Golden Knights is a perfect example. Not that he's coming to Buffalo, lord help us, but this type of player for sure.

[Thorner]

Haven’t read the thread yet so I’ll edit this as necessary after I do but a big blowup is the last thing we need. Any sort of tear it down, long form build back up would be literal poison. Adams isn’t going to shift from his plan but if and when a new GM is brought in, it absolutely cannot be someone talking the long game. And it can’t be someone that only views the current results as a means to facilitating something better in the future: talking sustained, contender type success is utter hubris for this franchise at this time. The focus and goal needs to be one thing, I somehow  nailed this 2 years ago and have been saying it since: just make the playoffs. That needs to be the goal: nothing else matters. 

We are trying to facilitate step 5 before ever firmly getting our footing on step 1. We are the receiver turning our head to look down field before the ball is caught.

[phil_soisson]

40 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'd counter by suggesting that, of late, he's been completely absent. (For perhaps obvious and good reason.)

All the more reason to have had an experienced, seasoned, savvy President of Hockey Operations running the organization, instead of a Harbor Center Director.

[Quint]

I just realized that even if the Sabres were lucky enough to get McDavid with the first overall, he still would've been gone by now by forcing a trade, because of the ineptness of this organization to put together a cohesive team.

Edited January 24 by Quint

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Ok, some of my opinion on this:

- Either Pegs needs to be an involved owner or we need a POHO. Someone needs to hold KA responsible. As of right now, now way either KA or Granato are feeling any heat from Pegs. That is not acceptable.

- At the end of the season when KA does his end of the year meeting with Pegs, if he says anything towards "Another year will make this team better" he needs to be immediately fired. Status quo is not helping this team

- Team is built wrong and we have plenty of capital to fix that. Anyone thinking the answer lies within, needs to be shown the door. What is on the Sabres is pretty much what's in the farm system with the exception of 1, 2 players.

- A reactive leadership is a failed leadership. Staying reactive is saying that mediocrity is ok. If that's their true thinking i hope our attendance drops below 5K.

- Coaches need to go. There is no reason for a team to sleep 50-55 mins of a game and only show up for small spurts. That team needs to be bag skated as soon as the fans leave the building until they all puke. The play is totally unacceptable. Also, coaching perimeter offensive and defensive play is totally bad hockey sense. When announcers and fans and everyone else sees that and comments but the own coaches do not, thats a monster issue.

 

This is not going to be anything close to an easy fix. We took a huge step back and most likely added 2 more years of non playoff hockey to this team.  even hardcore fans are going to turn away eventually. But sitting and doing nothing is just poor business decision and sense by all involved. A poor crappy ice product does not make money. Accountability needs to be held on all positions in the organization from Owner to the players as there is absolutely zero right now.

I was definitely a very hardcore Sabres fan, but 13 years has sapped even my love of the sport. Watching other teams play pisses me off more, wondering why we are so inept. This team has found a way to kill my love of hockey. Until there is accountability in the Sabres organization, i am done getting frustrated with this team. I cannot even support a tank as they will draft more useless players like all the rest instead of what's needed to move forward.

I am done.... rant and opinion over.

 

 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

I can get the sentiment to blow it up but I'm of the steadfast belief that that the right coaching staff can turn this ship quickly.   
Where would they be now if they had an average PP? With the skill they have on the roster , no way heads shouldn't role for their ineptitude 

I think the top 9 is pretty well set. Of course a return on Tage and Tuch to their former self's would be instrumental in righting the ship 

you've got pieces on defence   If they can bring in a top pair RHD that would cure a lot of their ills   
If there is one team in the league that has the assets to bring in such a player it's Buffalo   The problem is there aren't many of those types of players in the league and teams don't trade them away often 

the bottom line needs footsoldiers   I don't mind Krebs but they need energy , hair on fire type of guys   Hopefully they can acquire a few via free agency and trade 

goalies seem to be fine   UPL has answered a lot of the questions about him and Levi (it sent to Roch) should be a decent tandem next year 

it's definitely not a blow it up situation 

it's find a competent coaching staff , a top 4 dman and footsoldiers      

 

We really need to get away from this “our top 6 / top 9 / forwards look set” stuff. Nothing is set on this team when you are sitting at the bottom of the league. There is no way you can be that bad and that stench be totally absent from what amounts to a 50% chuck of the roster. We’d be better, if that were the case, and we had as much as you say “set”. A lot of our defensive woes are linked to the poor play of the top 9

Edited January 24 by Thorny