McKenzie’s Mid Season Draft Rankings

[Brawndo]

I do not see the 2024 Draft Thread right now, but here on McKenzie’s Rankings complied from 10 scouts 

[PerreaultForever]

Most of the players that fall to where we will probably be picking are all similar to guys we have already picked so idk, more of the same. Trade the pick. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I do not see the 2024 Draft Thread right now, but here on McKenzie’s Rankings complied from 10 scouts 

Can you believe it, but another smaller Euro forward right there at 8 just where the Sabres will be drafting.  Just what the Sabres need.

[shrader]

33 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I do not see the 2024 Draft Thread right now, but here on McKenzie’s Rankings complied from 10 scouts 

He took his ball and went home… yet again. 
 

But anyway, I’m glad that McKenzie mentioned just how well Celebrini has taken the ball and run with it. His production at his age in the NCAA is very impressive. Why did BU start getting these guys immediately after I left the area?

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Can you believe it, but another smaller Euro forward right there at 8 just where the Sabres will be drafting.  Just what the Sabres need.

The D men are mostly offensive upside guys too. No big bruisers and/or shutdown guys. No real power forwards either. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

No big bruisers and/or shutdown guys.

Those guys always come later in the draft.  McNabb was a 3rd.  Cernak a 2nd. Samuelsson was a 2nd.  Strbak a 2nd.  Novikov fell to the 6th.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Those guys always come later in the draft.  McNabb was a 3rd.  Cernak a 2nd. Samuelsson was a 2nd.  Strbak a 2nd.  Novikov fell to the 6th.

To some extent that's definitely true, but the guys I see there in the first aren't what we need. Hence, trade the pick. 

[SabreFinn]

21 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To some extent that's definitely true, but the guys I see there in the first aren't what we need. Hence, trade the pick. 

Agree! Use the pick to get a player that we know what we get, we are not in a position where we take a chans anymore. 

[TageMVP]

I wish it was too early in the season to talk about this, but it really isn't. Sigh 

How about this? Trade the pick, fine. If they don't, then please make it a bold pick. No more "safe" picks. Take a risk, reach for a guy. I do not care. If Adams' guy is ranked 12th, and we pick 8th, make the pick anyway. 

Hopefully it's for an actual power forward. Shane Doan, Keith Tkachuk, any Tkachuk, Rick Tocchet, anybody along those lines. A guy every opponent willfully thinks twice about checking 

That's what the Sabres need 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

I wish it was too early in the season to talk about this, but it really isn't. Sigh 

How about this? Trade the pick, fine. If they don't, then please make it a bold pick. No more "safe" picks. Take a risk, reach for a guy. I do not care. If Adams' guy is ranked 12th, and we pick 8th, make the pick anyway. 

Hopefully it's for an actual power forward. Shane Doan, Keith Tkachuk, any Tkachuk, Rick Tocchet, anybody along those lines. A guy every opponent willfully thinks twice about checking 

That's what the Sabres need 

No argument on what we need.

As far as the pick goes though, I still think you always have to take BPA. You only take need if he's close in your ranking. The side note though is with BPA philosophy you HAVE to be willing to deal prospects for different prospects or veterans that will fill your needs.  There is absolutely no point in stocking multiple versions of the same guy if you have other weaknesses. So far KA has not done that. 

Even if it's a drop in the draft that's fine for me. If the bruisers and big power forwards are ranked lower by all means trade down and get two or three of them to hope one develops rather than that speedy little Euro forward or whoever that we already have. 

[Norcal]

Go ahead and trade it.

The pick will instantly become some teams smallish super dynamo scoring wizard all around top player year over year. 

Because that's the way ***** works in Buffalo

Edited January 23 by Norcal

[Buffalonill]

The draft is buffalos playoffs every year  which is Irritating and sad

[Crusader1969]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

To some extent that's definitely true, but the guys I see there in the first aren't what we need. Hence, trade the pick. 

Unless you win the lottery, is there anyone who wants to see them make the pick? A trade for help in 24/25 just has to happen. would have hoped Adams moved on it a month ago , but he didnt and now its best to wait till the offseason to trade it BUT it must be done!

[Buffalonill]

3 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Unless you win the lottery, is there anyone who wants to see them make the pick? A trade for help in 24/25 just has to happen. would have hoped Adams moved on it a month ago , but he didnt and now its best to wait till the offseason to trade it BUT it must be done!

With buffalo basically picking in the the top 5 I see zero possibility of adams trading the pick.

I hope I'm wrong but this organization loves its picks 

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, TageMVP said:

I wish it was too early in the season to talk about this, but it really isn't. Sigh 

How about this? Trade the pick, fine. If they don't, then please make it a bold pick. No more "safe" picks. Take a risk, reach for a guy. I do not care. If Adams' guy is ranked 12th, and we pick 8th, make the pick anyway. 

Hopefully it's for an actual power forward. Shane Doan, Keith Tkachuk, any Tkachuk, Rick Tocchet, anybody along those lines. A guy every opponent willfully thinks twice about checking 

That's what the Sabres need 

this sounds great in theory but there is a significant downside. Usually a power forward doesnt hit their stride until 23 / 24 years of age....they just can't wait that long.

This teams needs a legit top 4 RHD and they need to trade this pick, along with  a prospect in a package that will bring in this player. 

[Crusader1969]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

With buffalo basically picking in the the top 5 I see zero possibility of adams trading the pick.

I hope I'm wrong but this organization loves its picks 

I really hope you are wrong. I really hope one of my favorite teams (Bills or Sabres) start to show a sense of urgency and start making bold moves.  I feel the Bills have at least tried on the player personal side ....while the Sabres have shown zero urgency to do anything.

[sabrefanday1]

absolutely 100% sure KA will not trade this pick. Unfortunately, he is going to stay the course with what we got...and agreed we do not need anyone that appears headed to be a top pick.

[mjd1001]

When it comes to the draft, I'm starting to think it doesn't matter as much as we want until this team puts even more into development.

Benson...he's OK, but hes hitting a wall, but he is the on player recently that made the team right away and looked good, but he had minimal time/contact with the Sabres development system.

The rest of the high picks....some that look better than others, but no one that is turning this team around. 10 top 10 overall picks in the past 11 years, and how many have turned into legit NHL stars/gamechangers?  Eichel won a cup but hasn't lived up to the 'semi-generational' label.  Dahlin still has a chance to be elite, but hes not that this year.  Reinhart seems to be having a truly NHL impact level season, but years after he left the Sabres and almost a decade after being drafted. I mean, I guess the development isn't truly BAD on this team, but its certainly not good.

[SabreFinn]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No argument on what we need.

As far as the pick goes though, I still think you always have to take BPA. You only take need if he's close in your ranking. The side note though is with BPA philosophy you HAVE to be willing to deal prospects for different prospects or veterans that will fill your needs.  There is absolutely no point in stocking multiple versions of the same guy if you have other weaknesses. So far KA has not done that. 

Even if it's a drop in the draft that's fine for me. If the bruisers and big power forwards are ranked lower by all means trade down and get two or three of them to hope one develops rather than that speedy little Euro forward or whoever that we already have. 

I am thinking of a scenario where we trade down with Vegas. We get their later first rounder and one of their lower line Stanley cup winner power forwards. They get a more attractive first rounder to use when trading for a second year of success.

[TageMVP]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

this sounds great in theory but there is a significant downside. Usually a power forward doesnt hit their stride until 23 / 24 years of age....they just can't wait that long.

This teams needs a legit top 4 RHD and they need to trade this pick, along with  a prospect in a package that will bring in this player. 

Then let's hope it's "unusually" 

This is a full rebuild, an actual one. They absolutely can and will wait that long. Just ask Adams. We're all going to be waiting for years. If said power forward takes 2-3 years to develop, that's still better than whatever flimsy fancy guy we have now. 

To your 2nd point, I don't disagree with that either. But Adams seems keen on doing things the slow, methodical and safe way when it comes to roster transactions. 

 

[Weave]

37 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

I am thinking of a scenario where we trade down with Vegas. We get their later first rounder and one of their lower line Stanley cup winner power forwards. They get a more attractive first rounder to use when trading for a second year of success.

Too bad we don’t have a disgruntled former 2nd overall pick to help facilitate that.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

When it comes to the draft, I'm starting to think it doesn't matter as much as we want until this team puts even more into development.

Benson...he's OK, but hes hitting a wall, but he is the on player recently that made the team right away and looked good, but he had minimal time/contact with the Sabres development system.

The rest of the high picks....some that look better than others, but no one that is turning this team around. 10 top 10 overall picks in the past 11 years, and how many have turned into legit NHL stars/gamechangers?  Eichel won a cup but hasn't lived up to the 'semi-generational' label.  Dahlin still has a chance to be elite, but hes not that this year.  Reinhart seems to be having a truly NHL impact level season, but years after he left the Sabres and almost a decade after being drafted. I mean, I guess the development isn't truly BAD on this team, but its certainly not good.

Am not fully convinced that the team doesn't develop talent well.  The bigger issue is the Sabres develop the talent at higher levels (in large part the NHL: Mittelstadt, Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, Power, Levi, Benson just ottomh all playing significant portions of either their D1 or D2 season in Buffalo not to mention guys that they've moved on from that also were in Buffalo for D1 or D2 year) than 90%+ of the NHL does so all the growing pains that come with learning to play as a professional are on full display at the highest level available.

It's an interesting experiment to which we are all held hostage as the organization tests the mettle of its young players at the highest level of competition available.  Mittelstadt when he reached his 24th birthday started to excel in that environment.  Would he have excelled in it earlier or later had he played 1 more year of NCAA hockey and then had a year of the AHL under his belt before coming to Buffalo?  The same question can be asked of the other young kids as well.

Adams seems to be banking on them being able to reach their peaks quicker by being here while also not driving away the love of hockey in his players that are in their primes/ past their primes (and the fanbase as well) while enduring the growing pains that come with young players developing.  In many ways the Sabres are the 21st Century's Eulers East, but since sending Eichel packing having not been sending any of the other youngsters out the door (yet) as they continue to accumulate young talent that he believes will eventually mature with a critical mass of that talent.

EVENTUALLY the plan almost has to succeed PROVIDED the losing endured while getting to there doesn't burn everybody out before that point is reached.  It COULD actually work, but will the cost in lost seasons and lost love of the game have been worth it if it does?  And, we need to keep in mind that the plan seeming to ALMOST having to succeed at some point isn't the same is it having to succeed at some point.  The anxiety of not knowing that this necessarily will succeed is high and if it doesn't succeed we'll have watched 4 or 5 more years (on top of the earlier 7 or 8) wasted as we get ready for another rebuild.

This month is going to be so interesting to watch, because if UPL has finally gotten out of his own head and really is a midtier (or dare we suggest better) starter maybe there is the critical mass of talent in front of him that the Sabres can be next year's juggernaut from seemingly out of nowhere with just a couple of tweaks here or there.  (And, flat out, Matt Ellis being reassigned is a tweak that needed to happen months ago.)  

Edited January 23 by Taro T
Fixed a TON of grammatical errors. D'oh!

[mjd1001]

36 minutes ago, Taro T said:

EVENTUALLY the plan almost has to succeed PROVIDED the losing endured while getting to there doesn't burn everybody out before that point is reached.  It COULD actually work, but will the cost in lost seasons and lost love of the game have been worth it if it does?  And, we need to keep in mind that the plan seeming to ALMOST having to succeed at some point isn't the same is it having to succeed at some point.  The anxiety of not knowing that this necessarily will succeed is high and if it doesn't succeed we'll have watched 4 or 5 more years (on top of the earlier 7 or 😎 wasted as we get ready for another rebuild.

The point you make about it eventually working  is interesting. There might be parts of 'the plan' that make sense, but it just isn't structured that well.

I posted some of the below a couple weeks ago:

 

  Something to consider as far as team defense goes:

  Last year Vegas wins the cup, with a very veteran D-group on the blue line.  Seattle has surprised many with how good they have been since being in the league, and   they did it with a very veteran D-group.

  This year:

  Winnipeg 1st in the NHL, average age of their top 4 d-men:   30 years (all of them 28 or older)

  Vancouver 2nd in the league, average age of their top 4 d-men:    29 years old  (Hughes is the youngest at 24, everyone else a lot more experience)

  Boston 3rd in the league,  Average age of top 4 d-men:   28 (no one under 26)

  Florida 4th in the league:  Ave age of top 4:   27.5 (no one under 27)

  Now how about Buffalo? Ave age of top 4:   22.75. ( ALL of them 24 or under)

 

So maybe the problem isn't development of each individual player, just how they chose to put the roster together and whether there is support for the correct players at the correct time?  You can develop your forwards but you BETTER have experienced D behind them. Or if you are developing your D-men you BETTER have experienced forwards in front of them. This team?  Neither.  The very few Vets they have had are NOT guys who are going to support their teamates with great defensive play (Okposo included), that is for sure.

 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I am thinking of a scenario where we trade down with Vegas. We get their later first rounder and one of their lower line Stanley cup winner power forwards. They get a more attractive first rounder to use when trading for a second year of success.

Sure. There's lots of teams with numerous options. For example, if the Bruins crap out of the playoffs again, they will be restructuring their line up and have basically zero picks and prospects so they might bite on a deal for one of their D or a bottom 6 guy. Philly might trade some grit for some skill as they look to keep rebuilding. Any team that falters in the playoffs will be looking to change something. 

[North Buffalo]

20 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Most of the players that fall to where we will probably be picking are all similar to guys we have already picked so idk, more of the same. Trade the pick. 

Except Lindstrom big bruising forward who can skate and fight and has hands to score... Im thinking... described as a unicorn... think foligno type gotta think about it..

Edited January 23 by North Buffalo