Tage Thompson- What the h*** happened?!?!

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

My uneducated opinion on Thompson's struggles this year is this is a very likely contributing factor. I had two kids by 25 and it was very challenging. The challenges can be compounded if his wife is also going through something that requires him to take on a larger role in the home. 

Respectfully, because I hold you in high regard, I disagree. I did not read his post as an accusation. I read it as more like he was thinking out loud, wondered if it was a possibility, explained why he had the thought, and introduced it for discussion. Personally I think the idea is batshit crazy, and I'm sure you agree with that, but I have no issue with the way he presented it. As always, YMMV. 

There are certain categories of behavior that even by insinuating certain things associated with one's reputation you are behaving inappropriately. My point is by insinuating when there is no trace of supporting evidence you are acting irresponsibly. 

Edited January 23 by JohnC

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are certain categories of behavior that even by insinuating certain things associated with one's reputation you are behaving inappropriately. My point is by insinuating when there is no trace of supporting evidence you are acting irresponsibly. 

I didn't really read it as him insinuating. I'm not saying you're wrong. I acknowledge I could be. I believe you and I just interpreted what he wrote a little differently. As I said, I vehemently disagree with the possibility of it just as you do. But I also didn't interpret his post as an assault on Thompsons character. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

That's a pretty good example.

One thing to consider some employers will test their employees for drugs after an incident, even when there is no evidence to support that anything was below board.

Fair point, but I think the parallel is a little bit of a stretch - as it is hard to define an "incident" in this line of employment. One would reasonably think management (Meatballs and GMKA) have had conversations that we, as the public, are not privy to. Only they would be responsible for defining "incident".

An interesting, but not quite as stark of a comparison - Jason Robertson is on pace to only put up 78.8% of the points he did last year (109 vs 84, both 82 games) - and I had to sully myself by visiting the Stars' page to find the stats - shudder. Tage (I used P/G due to variations in games played) will only score 62.2% as many points at his current pace. Granted Tage's drop is far more dramatic - but who (other than the team itself) is to say 21% fewer points is not also a massive drop.

*and also: "Huberdeau's point production during the 2022–23 season took a significant dip from his previous season with the Florida Panthers, setting an NHL record for the biggest point drop off in NHL history between seasons; falling from 115 points in 2021–22, to 55 points the next season." (from Wikipedia) In only one fewer games.

sidenote - did anyone know that Jonny Hubs was this handsome??? 

Just saying that large point drop-offs are not as crazy as one might think at first glance. 

Edited January 23 by ska-T Chitown

[SwampD]

Am I alone in not giving AF if someone uses PEDs?

I played division three whale ***** college football and I was definitely in the minority by not using PEDs (although, the best game I ever played I was stoned as the bejesus belt.) It was a long time ago, but I have to believe that the pressures to perform are just as high now as they were back then, if not higher.

So much outrage over nothing. It's exhausting, at times.

[Hank]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

Am I alone in not giving AF if someone uses PEDs?

I played division three whale ***** college football and I was definitely in the minority by not using PEDs (although, the best game I ever played I was stoned as the bejesus belt.) It was a long time ago, but I have to believe that the pressures to perform are just as high now as they were back then, if not higher.

So much outrage over nothing. It's exhausting, at times.

No, you are not. It's not something I would do, but I am not their moral compass. Bigger, faster, stronger athletes make for a better, more entertaining product. What they put into their bodies is their business, not mine. 

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You're welcome to disagree.

The Colo thing was a shock to me so I'll always wonder this going forward. Just my own experience.

So broaden your thinking going forward and choose words carefully  in social media forum. Do you want to be the source of this?    Just because that outcome happened in one case, does not mean it is true in all.   Especially when you are hinting at cheating or other unacceptable behaviors.  

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

No, you are not. It's not something I would do, but I am not their moral compass. Bigger, faster, stronger athletes make for a better, more entertaining product. What they put into their bodies is their business, not mine. 

I look at it from another perspective. I am generalizing here, but don't most PED's have known or suspected heath-issue side effects? "But they are choosing to do it" is kinda total BS ... if a few "bad actors" choose to violate rules - or worse they are allowed to do it by the sport, then others are forced to make the choice between their long-term health and the sport they love and are naturally good at. A sports governing body, by allowing athletes to take PEDs is essentially forcing others to do it in order to remain competitive, thus removing the actual choice for all practical purposes.

I am aware that this is a gross over-simplification of the issue but I have neither the time, nor the actual intellectual capacity to write a full PhD dissertation on the matter. I am pretty confident some internet research (ie - first page of google results) would lend credence to my assertions. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

10 hours ago, SwampD said:

Am I alone in not giving AF if someone uses PEDs?

I played division three whale ***** college football and I was definitely in the minority by not using PEDs (although, the best game I ever played I was stoned as the bejesus belt.) It was a long time ago, but I have to believe that the pressures to perform are just as high now as they were back then, if not higher.

So much outrage over nothing. It's exhausting, at times.

As a former D3 student-athlete myself, you are GD right I would have lost my shizz if I found out the only reason I went 1-8 in my 'career' against that one dude in my conference at my weight class was because he was a dirty doping cheater! If it was because genetically I was gifted with only the faintest hint of athletic ability, so be it and thanks Mom and Dad.

[GoPuckYourself]

On 1/21/2024 at 2:57 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

Now that I'm blocked (and happy to be)... A public service message to everyone else here.

One of the key standards on this board is to debate the comment, not the poster. There's only one poster in here that I feel consistently bullies people around.. Often times under the guise of debating the post. When you say things like I've seen said to others that, this is "truly the dumbest thing I've ever seen", it goes way beyond debating the post. You've taken a piece out of the poster.

Again, AS I SAID, likely Tage's struggles are due to a surgery he's put off or just lack of motivation. Just after seeing one of my favourite players of the Jays '15 run go down like Colo did, my mind still goes there.

To the other posters that come on here, and consistently say things I don't agree with... Cheers! I'll try not to berate you, or treat you poorly. We all have our own lived experiences to get us to where we are today. Also, many of you are legitimately funny. I'm not sure if you're trolling or genuinely mean it, but keep doing what you're doing because you're entertaining nonetheless.

Go Sabres!

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a PED case in hockey to my knowledge, I’m sure it goes on but I don’t think that’s the case here, I don’t know him personally so he could but to me it seems more like he thinks he has to be the entire team by himself (aka Josh Allen) and I just think the league has found out how to deal with him. It really hurts that most of the team is struggling also, I’m sure that doesn’t help either but that’s just my observation.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

So broaden your thinking going forward and choose words carefully  in social media forum. Do you want to be the source of this?    Just because that outcome happened in one case, does not mean it is true in all.   Especially when you are hinting at cheating or other unacceptable behaviors.  

People have been speculating about PED use in sports forever... seriously, this is not new. I don't have to be right about it either.

As a paying fan of the team who's watched the #1 center look like a mere shadow of himself with a nearly unprecedented drop off in production... going from a SportsCenter highlight almost every night to maybe one this year- I'm going to muse about this as a possibility. I'll also check in here to see if anyone else thinks this could be a possibility. It's harsh reality in sports these days that some fans seem unwilling to accept.  I guarantee you this type of conversation is going on all the time in other sports message boards. Not sure why we have to be so sensitive here.

[GoPuckYourself]

11 hours ago, SwampD said:

Am I alone in not giving AF if someone uses PEDs?

I played division three whale ***** college football and I was definitely in the minority by not using PEDs (although, the best game I ever played I was stoned as the bejesus belt.) It was a long time ago, but I have to believe that the pressures to perform are just as high now as they were back then, if not higher.

So much outrage over nothing. It's exhausting, at times.

I’m in the same boat, I don’t care what PED I use, none of them will give me the hand eye coordination to hit a 97 mile an hour fastball , or slam dunk over Lebrons head or deek Connor Hellebuyck out of his hockey pants because of my enhanced hockey IQ and if it does I might have to sign up.

[Ogelthorpe]

50 million and no heart!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

50 million and no heart!

How dare you ...

... try to get us back on topic !!

Oh, I respectfully disagree.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Ogelthorpe said:

50 million and no heart!

Well, if Tage is/was a 45+ goal scorer like last year, the Sabres had the bargain of the century.

If what he is...is a guy that CAN give you 40, but will also have years where he is up and down like this year and gives you 30....then you are still getting what you are paying for.

[JohninMinn.]

Cozens and Power don't have any infants I'm aware of and their play cratered too.

My hunting dog theory that these are thoroughbreds without heart seems valid. Some dogs just won't hunt. Sabres got a bunch of them Tage being the most obvious.

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a PED case in hockey to my knowledge, I’m sure it goes on but I don’t think that’s the case here, I don’t know him personally so he could but to me it seems more like he thinks he has to be the entire team by himself (aka Josh Allen) and I just think the league has found out how to deal with him. It really hurts that most of the team is struggling also, I’m sure that doesn’t help either but that’s just my observation.

Several of the NHL's fighter used steroids (John Kordic who died presumably from their usage being the most notable) or synthetic steroids (Andrew Peters who admitted to using Andro when it was not on the NHL's banned substance list).

Have never heard a credible rumor that players from other skills categories used them.  Though would be shocked if NONE of them used them for a bit at some point in their development / careers, but expect it is an extremely small percentage of players that have used them.  Would expect a very few might have used steroids or HGH after hitting adolesence to get a jump on others in their age cohort or that some have used HGH to speed injury recovery.

And no, don't expect for a moment that Thompson is/was using anything illegal.

[JoeSchmoe]

44 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

Cozens and Power don't have any infants I'm aware of and their play cratered too.

25yo

$50 million

2 kids

Not how I would have done it. 😁

Edited January 23 by JoeSchmoe

[Archie Lee]

Tage went on a 5 week heater from Oct 31 - Dec 7 last season.  18 goals and 36 points in 18 games.  Outside of that stretch he had 29 goals and 60 points in 60 games.  He is probably a 30-35 goal and 60-70 point guy, which is what he produced in his breakout season.  I think I have seen enough good things from Tage this season to think he is going to give us several years of that at least.

Also, a quick internet search of the top 10 scorers in the NHL over the last 30 years or so shows that there are lots of guys who had pretty substantial drop-offs in production within a year or two of having career years.  I'm not saying Tage will never duplicate last year's performance (though I don't think he will), but I don't think the drop-off is as unusual as some are making it out to be.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Tage went on a 5 week heater from Oct 31 - Dec 7 last season.  18 goals and 36 points in 18 games.  Outside of that stretch he had 29 goals and 60 points in 60 games.  He is probably a 30-35 goal and 60-70 point guy, which is what he produced in his breakout season.  I think I have seen enough good things from Tage this season to think he is going to give us several years of that at least.

Also, a quick internet search of the top 10 scorers in the NHL over the last 30 years or so shows that there are lots of guys who had pretty substantial drop-offs in production within a year or two of having career years.  I'm not saying Tage will never duplicate last year's performance (though I don't think he will), but I don't think the drop-off is as unusual as some are making it out to be.

Strictly as an FYI, that hot stretch for Thompson was right in the middle of the 6-7 week stretch that the PP was hitting at 34%.  Might be a SIMDGE of a correlation there.  😉

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Several of the NHL's fighter used steroids (John Kordic who died presumably from their usage being the most notable) or synthetic steroids (Andrew Peters who admitted to using Andro when it was not on the NHL's banned substance list).

Have never heard a credible rumor that players from other skills categories used them.  Though would be shocked if NONE of them used them for a bit at some point in their development / careers, but expect it is an extremely small percentage of players that have used them.  Would expect a very few might have used steroids or HGH after hitting adolesence to get a jump on others in their age cohort or that some have used HGH to speed injury recovery.

And no, don't expect for a moment that Thompson is/was using anything illegal.

I disagree. I think it's human nature to try to find an advantage. There's a wide variety of PEDs that provide more than muscle mass, but I think in our society when we hear PED our minds automatically think of weight training and "bulking up". I think the income potential combined with the small window to earn that income enhances the possibility, especially prior to the first big payday. 

Edited January 23 by Hank

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

Cozens and Power don't have any infants I'm aware of and their play cratered too.

My hunting dog theory that these are thoroughbreds without heart seems valid. Some dogs just won't hunt. Sabres got a bunch of them Tage being the most obvious.

 

Tage weathered the truckloads of crap dumped on him by internet tough guys as the return for the O'Reilly trade, a skinny frame that shot up 8 inches in three years, a cancer scare from his wife, a devastating shoulder injury, demotion to the minors, and Ralph Krueger to transform himself into a physical specimen and a 38-goal scorer. Then he took the backlash of too much, too soon against his big contract and responded with 47 goals and 94 points.

Never once whined or pointed fingers

His career has been the definition of heart.

What's obvious is your dog don't hunt.

Edited January 23 by dudacek

[JoeSchmoe]

15 minutes ago, Hank said:

I disagree. I think it's human nature to try to find an advantage. There's a wide variety of PEDs that provide more than muscle mass, but I think in our society when we hear PED our minds automatically think of weight training and "bulking up". I think the income potential combined with the small window to earn that income enhances the possibility, especially prior to the first big payday. 

As I understand it, Adderall and a lot of the ADD medications could be use to seriously improve focus and reaction times. As such, they are quite rampant in the e-sports community.

This is an interesting article (somehow it was free for me, despite being the Athletic)

https://theathletic.com/1281343/2019/12/03/lars-anderson-to-play-mortal-or-not-my-experience-trying-adderall-as-a-ped/

 

[JohninMinn.]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Tage weathered the truckloads of crap dumped on him by internet tough guys as the return for the O'Reilly trade, a skinny frame that shot up 8 inches in three years, a cancer scare from his wife, a devastating shoulder injury, demotion to the minors, and Ralph Krueger to transform himself into a physical specimen and a 38-goal scorer. Then he took the backlash of too much, too soon against his big contract and responded with 47 goals and 94 points.

Never once whined or pointed fingers

His career has been the definition of heart.

What's obvious is your dog don't hunt.

First place Tage Apologist award.

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

First place Tage Apologist award.

Thanks for raising the quality of Sabrespace discussion.

You've given us all a lot to think about.

 

 

[ska-T Palmtown]

Just now, dudacek said:

Thanks for raising the quality of Sabrespace discussion.

You've given us all a lot to think about.

 

 

I am usually super confused when I read a post from JohninMinn b/c my feeble brain thinks JohnC and those two are pretty close to polar opposites.

I agree that questioning the heart of a person you have never met, let alone interacted with in sustained and meaningful ways is pretty silly. It is obviously everyone's "internet warrior" right to do so ... but not all rights need to be used at all times.