Greenway on the market ?

[Drag0nDan]

6 hours ago, inkman said:

But why create that loss, to acquire another type of player they have in droves.  We are going to see the Sabres push some good offensive players out of the way for better 200 ft players.  Already happened with Benson for Olofsson.  

I assume it has something to do with making dollars work.  

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Which of those 9 are you trading?

Skinner, a top goal scorer, has a complete NMC and a huge contract.

Tuch is an excellent all around player when healthy on a bargain contract with a M-NTC.  He is also the poster child for “wants to be here.”

TNT is the team’s top center, top goal scorer and on a reasonable to cheap contract.

Benson, Quinn and JJP are on their ELCs and are already among our better forwards at driving offense.  

So that leaves Cozens and Mitts. The Sabres lack centers. They don’t have any near ready in the A.  Would they ditch young DC one year into a lengthy extension?  Would they trade away Mitts, who is their best 2 way forward, most versatile forward and possibly their best playmaker? 

While I agree that something has to change, I think it’s much more likely change come from moving on from picks and prospects being moved for help.  

Do the Sabres lack centres relative to the other positions? Also Mitts isn’t a better playmaker than Dahlin but at F, sure 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If I were the Sabres GM, my off-season would look something like this.

I’d move on from KO, Z, VO and Jost upfront.  I’d move on from UPL, Joki, EJ and Clifton in goal and on defense.  Trading Clifton will be hard. 

Those moves create 3 starting roster spots  at forward, 3 on defense and one in goal. Ryan Johnson earns one of the 3 D openings.  

I’d give Krebs a cheap one year prove it deal and pencil him in as the 13th forward.  I’m also ok if he is traded.

I’m putting 2 of Kulich, Rosen, Savoie and Östlund in the trade market with our top pick in 2024.  shoring up the D is the top priority with at least one proven top 4 D.  I’m also looking to add a good center or two.  My dream scenario is to get a possible 3rd line center to allow Mitts to move back to wing.  

 

 

You have my sword 

[SABRES 0311]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner has a full NTC so he isn't going anywhere. Which of Tage, Tuch, Cozens, JJP, Quinn, Mitts, and Benson are you willing to trade for defensive help? 

Depends on who brings the best return, at that specific time, with the least negative impact offensively.

[SABRES 0311]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner has a full NTC so he isn't going anywhere. Which of Tage, Tuch, Cozens, JJP, Quinn, Mitts, and Benson are you willing to trade for defensive help? 

 

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Which of those 9 are you trading?

Skinner, a top goal scorer, has a complete NMC and a huge contract.

Tuch is an excellent all around player when healthy on a bargain contract with a M-NTC.  He is also the poster child for “wants to be here.”

TNT is the team’s top center, top goal scorer and on a reasonable to cheap contract.

Benson, Quinn and JJP are on their ELCs and are already among our better forwards at driving offense.  

So that leaves Cozens and Mitts. The Sabres lack centers. They don’t have any near ready in the A.  Would they ditch young DC one year into a lengthy extension?  Would they trade away Mitts, who is their best 2 way forward, most versatile forward and possibly their best playmaker? 

While I agree that something has to change, I think it’s much more likely change come from moving on from picks and prospects being moved for help.  

 

12 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Depends on who brings the best return, at that specific time, with the least negative impact offensively.

If you want something of value from another team you need to give them something of value. What Sabres asset that is not in the top nine or named Dahlin would fetch a return the team needs?

Thats assuming you agree the team needs help in goaltending and defense beyond a tweener backup and third pairing guy. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Omg, this is annoying. Stop for a second. 

Jordan Greenway is only signed through next season at 3million dollars. After that his contract ends. Jack Quinn, JJP, Devon Levi, Ryan Johnson are all signed through next season as well so NO ONE gives a ***** about Greenway's 3 million bucks because it literally has no impact on any of those listed players. Krebs is going to get his qualifying offer and that's probably about it for his raise. Mitts can probably ask for 8mil if he wants but again, that fits under the cap easy and has no impact on keeping jordan greenway next year or signing any of the other listed players after next year. Stop spouting nonsense about having to pay players that are not up for new deals so we have to trade away Jordan Greenway. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sabres

If this ***** team is still rebuilding next year, I hope Adams and the lot of them are shipped to Siberia with Terry Pegula leading the way. 

IF they are sticking with this roster BUT if they have actual free agency plans for next year to take a great leap forward rather than rebuild/build then the 3 million for a bottom end guy matters. 

Pesce, Hanifin, etc. it's a long list. 

I do not think the Sabres will go this route and don't think we will add high profile free agents but you never know, they might think the team is ready for a leap. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Do the Sabres lack centres relative to the other positions? Also Mitts isn’t a better playmaker than Dahlin but at F, sure 

 I think they do.  We do have prospects like Kulich, Rosen and Savoie who are listed as C/W, but I think both project as wingers in the NHL.  The only good prospects that project as NHL centers are Östlund and Wahlberg and both at probably a few years away.  Krebs is a bust and DG has been pretty clear that he also prefers Mitts on the wing.  That leaves us with just 2 centers in TNT and DC.  If I we KA, one goal with the forward group is to find two centers; one for the 3rd line and one for the 4th.  I'd shift Mitts to wing and Krebs (if re-signed) to the 13th forward slot. 

This would give us incredible depth down the middle and force the prospect to earn an NHL wing slot.  If we had injuries down the middle, like this season, Mitts and/or Krebs could slot in as needed.   

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, seer775 said:

If they don't overpay, don't sell. It won't be an NHL player because they're gunning for the playoffs and they need someone big before the deadline.

Let's say we get two decent picks from Greenway. Great. Sign one or two hulk UFAs on short term in the offseason (Martin, Lucic, Clutterbuck, Maroon, etc). Package the picks and a player/prospect for a one or two top 4 Dmen.

Profit.

 

2 hours ago, seer775 said:

It'd have to be more than a 2nd and a 5th, because that's what we got him for. So maybe a 2nd and a 3rd, or two 2nds.

What're the odds we get that top 4 dman under RFA (replacing Joker) if we overpay just a little bit? That's the other key piece. How many picks and prospects would a Byram cost (or a Seider, Bouchard, Luke Hughes, Romanov, Hague, Miller, Drysdale)? A first, 2nd and a prospect is the max reasonable payout. Then, we have to sign a couple Fs for grit (for Greenway, KO/Girgs) (like Martin, Clutterbuck, Lucic, Maroon, etc) plus another solid D for EJ (maybe Clifton) UFA in the offseason.

If that isnt possible, keep Greenway and try your luck signing an F (mentioned) and one or two Dmen in the upcoming UFA market (Tanev, Hanifin, Barrie, OEL, Gostisbehere, Montour) or the next (Chycrun, Provorov, Schmidt, Theodore, Gavrikov, Pionk, Orlov, Ekblad).

Why should a team with every single guy in their top 9 under 26 accept Skinner want more picks when they still have Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, and Rose, Wahlberg, Strbak, Novikov, etc... in their prospect pool, why? What in hell does ditching Greenway so we have a 2nd and a 3rd do for us? Don't say for a trade because I can use Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2024 right now for that without doing anything. You can literally package those picks already because we have them with Greenway for example for someone of value. 

Also for the love of zeus's caboose, next time you mention trading for Moritz Seider I am going to call for you to be banned, Connor McDavid is more likely to be traded than Seider. Im sorry do I see Luke Hughes now as well? Holy crap man this isn't even borderline realistic. You wanna know what a Seider trade looks like... Owen Power, Jiri Kulich, One of (Peterka/Quinn/Cozens/Benson) and a 2nd (because Yzerman loves that kid and it is their #1 defender). Hard pass. You listing "A 1st, 2nd, and a prospect is the max reasonable payout." is insane. Wookie wouldn't even suggest that for Seider, Hughes, or Bouchard. I get these are just names you are tossing out but find realistic ones. Corson Ceulemans is a realistic RFA guy you could trade a 2nd and prospect for, not Mortiz Seider. Yzerman would crawl over broken glass while on fire to keep Seider on his team. 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

You have my sword 

Not your bow? What about your ax? 

[LGR4GM]

You wanna know why I think we should use the other assets we have and not Greenway to find a top 4 defender? Because we need Greenway in our top 12 and I am sick of trading NHL players for future maybes and a 2nd round pick has about a 20% chance to be an NHL player, just a player, let alone as good as Greenway can be.

We should keep Greenway and try to make the playoffs next year. Considering he isn't on the market as the OP claims in their title and it is just Vancouver writers picking guys they want, I am not concerned about this. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

When was Greenway waived?  Robinson was waived and then traded for, but we traded the LV 2nd rd pick (and a 5th in 2024) for Greenway with two years remaining on his deal.  He'll have one year left on his contract after this season.

I'm in no hurry to trade Greenway, but if trading him helps get us a legit top 4 D than so be it.  However, I think our prime assets to acquire a top 4 D are 2 of Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, and Savoie plus our 1st (top 5 protected) in 2024.  

Edited January 9 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, seer775 said:

You put up two 1sts and two 2nds for a first. That's insanity. We got less back for Sam Reinhart, Jack Eichel, and ROR who are better players than Seider, Hughes, and Bouchard.

Work it down the list if those targets aren't available. Romanov, Hague, Miller, Drysdale. They're all pretty decent and no way they cost two 1sts and two 2nds. Max 1 first, a second, and a prospect.

Yea, because Yzerman is not trading Seider. It just isn't happening. And no, we got more for Eichel (3 1sts and a 2nd). The ROR trade was garbage and should be used for the basis of nothing. 

Drysdale was traded yesterday so he isn't getting traded again. Which Miller? There's like 4 I can think of. None of the guys you listed Romanov, Hague, and Miller am I inclined to trade a 1st and a 2nd and a prospect for. That's my own personal taste, especially when our 2024 1st is going to be in top 10 in a very defense heavy draft. Romanov is worth a 2nd and maybe a B prospect like Polatpov or something. Hague same thing. I am going to guess Miller is K'andre Miller and that is a player I think is worth what you are suggesting. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

When was Greenway waived?  Robinson was waived and then traded for, but we traded the LV 2nd rd pick (and a 5th in 2024) for Greenway with two years remaining on his deal.  He'll have one year left on his contract after this season.

I'm in no hurry to trade Greenway, but if trading him helps get us a legit top 4 D than so be it.  However, I think our prime assets to acquire a top 4 D are 2 of Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, and Savoie plus our 1st (top 5 protected) in 2024.  

Sure but what name you got. Because if we are trading a 2024 1st and Kulich, they better be really good and idk why a team would trade that type of player. Again, the only name I can come up with is Corson Ceulemans out of Columbus (who isn't worth that or that level of guy) because CBJ have 27 other RHD. Now if CBJ want to trade David Jiricek... well now you have my attention. 

[Dreams Burn Down]

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yzerman would crawl over broken glass while on fire to keep Seider on his team.

I would pay to see this.

[Weave]

The only way I am trading Greenway is if I am upgrading the exact need in the forward group.

This team is built lopsided.  Greenway is the only real heavy player in the lineup right now.  There are a couple with the physical assets to do it, but the personality is lacking.  Greenway does it, does it well, and is comfortable with doing it.  If we move Greenway without directly replacing it our forward group will be negatively affected.  
 

If the GM senses that he won’t resign when his contract ends, the right move for this team is to trade him IN THE OFFSEASON when we have the opportunity to tweak the forward group to better balance it.

[inkman]

17 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Correct.

Again, each of those players is better than Bouchard, Seider, and Hughes.

Anyone can be traded. Stevie Y knows this. He was no stranger to making bold moves for players while he was the TBL GM (Sergachev, for example).

Yes it will cost a lot for anyone worthwhile. But that's the whole point of making the trade in the first place. Doing whatever it takes to get a solid top 4 Dman that we can keep for a while, without giving away everything, is a priority for this club.

Jordan Greenway is not the solution to making the playoffs this year or the next. A competent defense is. That means anything and everything is on the table, especially pending UFAs.

Umm…Jordan Greenway is our most competent defensive forward.  Guys listed as defenseman aren’t the only players that need to play defense.  

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, seer775 said:

You put up two 1sts and two 2nds for a first. That's insanity. We got less back for Sam Reinhart, Jack Eichel, and ROR who are better players than Seider, Hughes, and Bouchard.

Work it down the list if those targets aren't available. Romanov, Hague, Miller, Drysdale. They're all pretty decent and no way they cost two 1sts and two 2nds. Max 1 first, a second, and a prospect.

He really isn't that good. I think you are overvaluing a guy who can easily be replaced for less, and who likely isn't resigning. It would be a smart value move to get something for him now (if) someone will overpay.

You don't get it. It's not overvaluing Greenway. He's with a 2nd maybe, it's understanding that's not worth losing Greenway over. We need nhl players not more picks. We already have picks to trade, we don't need more.

[Thorner]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Why should a team with every single guy in their top 9 under 26 accept Skinner want more picks when they still have Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, and Rose, Wahlberg, Strbak, Novikov, etc... in their prospect pool, why? What in hell does ditching Greenway so we have a 2nd and a 3rd do for us? Don't say for a trade because I can use Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2024 right now for that without doing anything. You can literally package those picks already because we have them with Greenway for example for someone of value. 

Also for the love of zeus's caboose, next time you mention trading for Moritz Seider I am going to call for you to be banned, Connor McDavid is more likely to be traded than Seider. Im sorry do I see Luke Hughes now as well? Holy crap man this isn't even borderline realistic. You wanna know what a Seider trade looks like... Owen Power, Jiri Kulich, One of (Peterka/Quinn/Cozens/Benson) and a 2nd (because Yzerman loves that kid and it is their #1 defender). Hard pass. You listing "A 1st, 2nd, and a prospect is the max reasonable payout." is insane. Wookie wouldn't even suggest that for Seider, Hughes, or Bouchard. I get these are just names you are tossing out but find realistic ones. Corson Ceulemans is a realistic RFA guy you could trade a 2nd and prospect for, not Mortiz Seider. Yzerman would crawl over broken glass while on fire to keep Seider on his team. 

Not your bow? What about your ax? 

One does not simply walk into a trade for Mortiz 

7 minutes ago, inkman said:

Umm…Jordan Greenway is our most competent defensive forward.  Guys listed as defenseman aren’t the only players that need to play defense.  

That’s why I call defencemen “Backs”’

[LGR4GM]

The problem here is some think it's:

Greenway OR a top 4 defender

I think we need:

Greenway AND a top 4 defender

[Sabres73]

Four pages arguing about a trade that has zero chance of happening? lol

[GASabresIUFAN]

52 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but what name you got. Because if we are trading a 2024 1st and Kulich, they better be really good and idk why a team would trade that type of player. Again, the only name I can come up with is Corson Ceulemans out of Columbus (who isn't worth that or that level of guy) because CBJ have 27 other RHD. Now if CBJ want to trade David Jiricek... well now you have my attention. 

Matt Roy from LA? 

[ShadowOnTheDoor]

22 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Where do you see Greenway playing for Buffalo next season?

TNT, Skinner, Tuch, Cozens, JJP, Quinn, and Benson are all top 9 forwards under contract.  When Mitts is re-signed that’s 8 top 9 forwards.  Now if one of Rosen, Kulich or Savoie make the Sabres, the 9 top 9 forwards.  That relegates Greenway to the 4th line.  Is it worth paying Greenway $3 mill to be a 4th liner?  

What if trading Greenway helps get us a 2 way center or a top 4 D, I think KA would have to consider it especially if he believes Greenway to destined to be a 4th line player next season.

"When" Mitts is re-signed? He's a third liner for us who doesn't play physical or kill penalties. Yes, he's our leading scorer on the season. I was valedictorian in Summer School.

I don't dislike him, but are you going to pay him $4-$6M a year with enough forward prospects to replace him at a fraction of the cost? 

He will arguably be Adams' biggest challenge between now and the deadline. 

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, ShadowOnTheDoor said:

"When" Mitts is re-signed? He's a third liner for us who doesn't play physical or kill penalties. Yes, he's our leading scorer on the season. I was valedictorian in Summer School.

I don't dislike him, but are you going to pay him $4-$6M a year with enough forward prospects to replace him at a fraction of the cost? 

He will arguably be Adams' biggest challenge between now and the deadline. 

 

He's currently centering Skinner and Tuch.

And he leads the team in points. 

 

 

Edited January 10 by LGR4GM

[ShadowOnTheDoor]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He's currently centering Skinner and Tuch.

And he leads the team in points. 

 

 

Tyson Jost was centering them two weeks ago. And he's played 10 more games than Thompson and seven more than Tuch. 

Again - good player. But he doesn't fit at the money he'll likely get.  

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, ShadowOnTheDoor said:

Tyson Jost was centering them two weeks ago. And he's played 10 more games than Thompson and seven more than Tuch. 

Again - good player. But he doesn't fit at the money he'll likely get.  

The leading scorer on the team "doesn't fit"?

[Rasmus_]

He's a 3M player who plays at 1.5M.  Does he have assets that we need sure, but he's a bottom six overpaid asset that if Donny honestly envisioned using him as a would be third or fourth liner should be slapped.  We gave up two seconds for this injury prone average middle six forward.   He's fine, but if he does so much for our PK that ranks in the bottom third.  Meh.  Get your ass out of Buffalo.