Is There A Case For Being Patient? "Patience" is not a dirty word

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

He might be.  But like @mjd1001 said, it seems that he's obviously frustrated with the way the team is going but doesn't seem to be the guy to turn that frustration outward to push his teammates to strive for his excellence.

Honestly thought Tuch would be that guy, and he does several captainly (is that a word?) things and the team does seem more sluggish when he isn't there but he doesn't seem to be able to help push them up another level either.

Personally wanted one of Girgensons/Okposo back, but not both, and am now coming to the belief that having them both in the room is keeping the other guys that should be the leaders from stepping up and taking charge for whatever reason.  (Seems likely that nobody wants to step on their toes, but it could be several reasons.)  To a man, everybody talks about how everybody gets along and there are no clicks on this team and it's all pretty much kumbaya.  When you're 3rd from the bottom, it can't be all kumbaya.  They all like each other, presumably they trust each other.  They need to trust each other enough to say the hard things that need to be said.  It either isn't coming from the coaches or it isn't getting through from them; either way they need to start holding each other accountable.  There's talent on this team and at least half of the players have been leaders on past teams.  They need to start taking things seriously.  

It is now. And @inkman's head just exploded. And not the one you're thinking of.

[LTS]

5 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Bro.

Soooo I am guessing you are assuming I know something about Nate MacKinnon?  I don't.  Did he do something like this that I am unaware of?

[Cranky old man]

Patience? The coaching staff still can’t get through to the team, they don’t know how to play defense. patience?The general manager keeps bringing in odd pieces from around the league, overpaying them and then sending them to Rochester. patience? We have the same team back from last year that didn’t make the playoffs with no substantial changes. Soft players who come out and given up tons of first period points.  we don’t need to burn the team down. We just need a general manager who knows how to construct a roster, and a coaching staff that knows how to teach defense. we’re not inpatient we just expect some incremental results, some basic competence. You have to be garbage in the NHL to miss the playoffs and we’re still garbage, but will wait patiently with you Bob .

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, Cranky old man said:

Patience? The coaching staff still can’t get through to the team, they don’t know how to play defense. patience?The general manager keeps bringing in odd pieces from around the league, overpaying them and then sending them to Rochester. patience? We have the same team back from last year that didn’t make the playoffs with no substantial changes. Soft players who come out and given up tons of first period points.  we don’t need to burn the team down. We just need a general manager who knows how to construct a roster, and a coaching staff that knows how to teach defense. we’re not inpatient we just expect some incremental results, some basic competence. You have to be garbage in the NHL to miss the playoffs and we’re still garbage, but will wait patiently with you Bob .

I really believe this is a thin line between winning and losing and this team might turn the corner as it grows. I'm hoping, anyway 

[Carmel Corn]

16 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I really believe this is a thin line between winning and losing and this team might turn the corner as it grows. I'm hoping, anyway 

Sorry, but IMHO that thin line is about the size of the Grand Canyon.  The fix isn't a small adjustment that is days or weeks away, but rather a significant swap of personnel to create a better balance of players who can keep other teams honest.  Today, the Sabres are the easiest team in the league to play against, and that won't work for a full regular season and a long playoff gauntlet.

Edited January 4 by Carmel Corn

[Pimlach]

15 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I really believe this is a thin line between winning and losing and this team might turn the corner as it grows. I'm hoping, anyway 

I agree with this.  A few players away still,  but I don’t think we get there with the current coaching staff. 

As for being patient.   It helps me get through the rest of the season by venting on occasion.  I don’t think me being patient is warranted.   I think Adams needs to convince Terry on a major coaching change.  I think Adams has to seize the moment and make a few roster moves.  His prospects are getting more eyes from other teams scouts, they could just as easily lose value rather than gain.  Adam’s has to get to work.  

Edited January 4 by Pimlach

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

Soooo I am guessing you are assuming I know something about Nate MacKinnon?  I don't.  Did he do something like this that I am unaware of?

From what I’ve read, he’s a hyper competitive as.shole much like Drury was. And he can be similarly brutal on teammates. It appears to work for him.

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

From what I’ve read, he’s a hyper competitive as.shole much like Drury was. And he can be similarly brutal on teammates. It appears to work for him.

He takes the C seriously.  As long as he holds himself to the same standards he won’t have a problem.  

[Wyldnwoody44]

[Slack_in_MA]

For me, patience is a function of progress. When it’s “one step forward, two steps back” for prolonged stretches, I lose patience. Kinda simple actually.

[Indabuff]

[SabresVet]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

From what I’ve read, he’s a hyper competitive as.shole much like Drury was. And he can be similarly brutal on teammates. It appears to work for him.

In high performance organizations this type of leader pushes the lesser motivated individuals.  It's not what works for the leader...it's how that individual keeps the guys who need focusing focused.  

The Buffalo Sabres have a leadership problem, although for one game after the fans called for Granato to be fired, this wasn't an issue.  Then they reverted back to their old selves and are continuing as the rudderless ship 2023-24 is. 

 

[TageMVP]

What's with all this doom and gloom? The Sabres are about to win their next 15 in a row 

[GoPuckYourself]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:17 PM, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

I don't want Kevyn Adams making any roster changes or making trades to be honest since he's screwed this up enough, we'll let the new GM do that when he gets here (hopefully soon!).

Edited January 4 by GoPuckYourself

[PerreaultForever]

I realize now you meant Patients and just can't spell. For we are all mental head cases to still follow this team without a doubt. 

[TageMVP]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I realize now you meant Patients and just can't spell. For we are all mental head cases to still follow this team without a doubt. 

Lol 

I'll always be loyal to this team 

[That Aud Smell]

5 hours ago, SabresVet said:

In high performance organizations this type of leader pushes the lesser motivated individuals.  It's not what works for the leader...it's how that individual keeps the guys who need focusing focused.  

Yeah - that’s what I was saying. It works for him in that he’s an effective C and there are no passengers on that squad.

[FrenchConnection44]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:17 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

Patience is good. Even with the development of certain players. But no more with the coaching staff. The coaching is hindering them by not continuing their development.  There is no system and bad habits are developing. Plus, they are not developing in terms of play strength and individual skills.

Take Samuelsson and Power. They should be beasts on defense. They should dominate the slot and take control of skaters entering the zone. They have great length and size. But they don’t. In part it’s poor hockey training and in part it’s poor off season training. Samuelsson has the body and skills to dominate but doesn’t. Power should be 225-230 this year and skating better but isn’t. 

 

[bob_sauve28]

8 hours ago, TageMVP said:

What's with all this doom and gloom? The Sabres are about to win their next 15 in a row 

See! I knew things would get better! 

[bob_sauve28]

14 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Patience is good. Even with the development of certain players. But no more with the coaching staff. The coaching is hindering them by not continuing their development.  There is no system and bad habits are developing. Plus, they are not developing in terms of play strength and individual skills.

Take Samuelsson and Power. They should be beasts on defense. They should dominate the slot and take control of skaters entering the zone. They have great length and size. But they don’t. In part it’s poor hockey training and in part it’s poor off season training. Samuelsson has the body and skills to dominate but doesn’t. Power should be 225-230 this year and skating better but isn’t. 

 

I'm open to a new coach, just not yet. We have been firing coaches for a long time and it has not changed things. Let's stick it out with DG for awhile 

[FrenchConnection44]

19 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Biggest reasons we are not better than last year.  In order of severity. 

1.  GM - stood pat and did not improve the team when there were glaring needs at goaltending, RHD, and forward.  Neglecting a replacement for Quinn was a massive failure. 

2.  Coaching - Every team knows how to play Buffalo and the Sabres coaches have no answers.  A massive failure was to focus on scoring and to "install defense" later;  when they tried to "install defense" they hurt the offense.   It is clear DG has a minor league staff and we rely on player skills more than on a team approach to playing the game.   We cannot employ even one system effectively while winning teams can play several.  

3.  Not ready - They wasted camp and pre-season farting around with long term prospects and 3 goalies while reading their press clippings from last year.  They talked about winning but did not do the things needed to win.  There was no work done and it showed.  They started slow and passive and never got on track.   A few minor injuries really exposed the lack of NHL depth at forward.  The mentality of this team is still the same - they take most nights off, they can't figure out how to get ready for home games, they start slow and fall behind almost very game, and they play like they expect to lose. 

4.  Drop off in play - Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Samuelsson and Power all with massive drops in production and overall play.  Some of it is due to injuries but not all.  

Non of this requires more patience from me or anyone else. IT actually requires less patience and more urgency.  

-  GM - The roster improvements can be made by trading assets from the prospect pool to fill the gaps on the roster. Not sure if Adams has it in himm but he need to made a few moves.   Sitting around waiting for prospect will kill the current core, its already killed the fan base.  

-   Coaching -  this staff has shown they have taken this group as far as they can.  Recommend a serious coaching search, bring in a proven NHL coach, let him pick his assistants and give him some say on the roster. 

-   Players -some of the core players have seen their play drop off this season.   Was it realistic to think Tage was going to have a third career year in a row?  Was it realistic to think Cozens could get 30 again, or Tuch 35 again?   Was it realistic to think that Clifton could be a 4 when he was a 6/7 at Boston?  Was it realistic to think that Levi could be a #1 goalie in his first full NHL season?   More balance is needed, it has been said many times by many people - there too many of the same types of players on this roster.  

I have little patience left.  I am ready for a new coaching staff led by a veteran coach with a strong NHL resume.  If Adams cannot get a coach AND fix the roster then I will be be ready to replace Adams too.   If Pegula cannot demand more, and figure out who to hire to get more, then he should just sell the team. 

This has gone on for WAY TOO LONG! 

As a Buffalo Hockey Fan since pre 1970 I am not going to stop watching, but I have stopped liking this team this season.  Changes are required.   Start with the entire coaching staff.   

 

Good points. But I’d change the order of 1 & 2. Largely because point 3 can be subsumed into 2. 3 is also a product of poor coaching.
 

4 is on the entire front office and coaching staff. They needed to give all these players a better off season focus in training and development. To instill in them that they have proven nothing. The players needed a different psychology and better physical training (to be bigger, stronger, improved skating, etc.). Even the top players. We have seen little to none of that. From most of the players. Peterka is one in whom we’ve seen growth over the off season. But no way should Power come in at 6’6 218 when he was 215 last year. His skating hasn’t improved. He’s not a dominant force on defense or offense, despite having the raw talent and size to be such. 

 

[SabresVet]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yeah - that’s what I was saying. It works for him in that he’s an effective C and there are no passengers on that squad.

You're missing the point.  Saying it "works for him" reads like he chooses to be confrontational and it works for that organization.  

My point is that while every team can't have a a MacKinnon leader on-ice, they should have something like him and his style off it when things get bad and/or players aren't giving 100%.  

The M.O. in Buffalo seems to avoid disrupting the status quo.  That ain't leadership...it's poor leadership and a lack of urgency.    

[Quint]

It would be nice if the Sabres had a real, professional coaching staff and management after all these years. But we as fans don't deserve a professionally-run organization. We deserve to be beggars, clingers-on, bottom-feeders in the NHL; a feeder/developmental team in a professional league, where teams can easily pick off our best players who have become disgruntled with the non-stop losing. This is our role and the role of small markets in pro sports leagues. Almost is good enough.

Instead or griping, we should get down on our knees and thank Terrance J. Pegula for keeping Buffalo in the NHL and not moving elsewhere, even if we have become a perennially losing team run by non-professional hockey men, just so Terrance can have tight control of the team and culture and not get dominated and bamboozled by real hockey men running this organization. After all, Terrance's vision is being fulfilled...our lineup is flush with #1 draft choices and it's only a matter of time that we will be gifted wins for our sheer talent, right?

Seriously, the time for patience is long-over.

Quote

Where there is no vision, the people perish.                                                                                                                                                                                                       Proverbs 29:18

 

Edited January 4 by Quint

[Gatorman0519]

They’ve had 4 years to get the ship moving. Most regimes get canned after 2 or 3.  

[matter2003]

Well, I find it funny that teams that went from sucking and are young are constantly bypassing the Sabres on their rebuild year after year...

Toronto...New Jersey...Philadelphia...now Vancouver who went from one of the worst teams in the NHL last year to leading the Western Conference, just like New Jersey did the year before.

How long does it actually take to go from bad to good?  Why do all these other teams seem to be able to do it far faster than the Sabres following their style of rebuild?  

Tired of the excuses while team after team drafts and develops and gets results while we spin our tires going nowhere for 12 years now.

Edited January 4 by matter2003