Is There A Case For Being Patient? "Patience" is not a dirty word

[That Aud Smell]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This, this, a thousand times this!

The regulars here are like old drinking buddies (or whatever) in that we tell the same stories, reference the same facts/factoids.

The one that comes to mind here is the story about how Drury took a virtual baseball bat to Brian Campbell's boom box. Turned the thing off and told him to keep it off. Then, looking around the locker room, told Campbell to get his ass into the weight room. If memory serves, this was after a game (or possibly a practice). Even at the time in hearing this, I remember reacting like "yowza - what a d1ck."

Nate MacKinnon, anyone?

[LTS]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The regulars here are like old drinking buddies (or whatever) in that we tell the same stories, reference the same facts/factoids.

The one that comes to mind here is the story about how Drury took a virtual baseball bat to Brian Campbell's boom box. Turned the thing off and told him to keep it off. Then, looking around the locker room, told Campbell to get his ass into the weight room. If memory serves, this was after a game (or possibly a practice). Even at the time in hearing this, I remember reacting like "yowza - what a d1ck."

Nate MacKinnon, anyone?

I just want to hear about this happening on some NHL locker room today.  As much as it may pain some of us to say it, today's youth responds differently and I'm never certain if something like this would tune them in or out.  We can all say too bad, but we don't control the youth of today.

Now, if we are seeing this kind of success in other locker rooms I think there is evidence that perhaps the approach could work.

I know the arguments my son and I get into about this team often get to the point of a debate in this area. He often sides with the feel good and I'm more along the lines of how I would be smacking the ever loving crap out of some of the people on this team if I were in that locker room.

[#freejame]

3 minutes ago, LTS said:

I just want to hear about this happening on some NHL locker room today.  As much as it may pain some of us to say it, today's youth responds differently and I'm never certain if something like this would tune them in or out.  We can all say too bad, but we don't control the youth of today.

Now, if we are seeing this kind of success in other locker rooms I think there is evidence that perhaps the approach could work.

I know the arguments my son and I get into about this team often get to the point of a debate in this area. He often sides with the feel good and I'm more along the lines of how I would be smacking the ever loving crap out of some of the people on this team if I were in that locker room.

I went into the army after high school, so by the time I was playing hockey in college I was at least five years older than most the guys, if not more. The difference in age was 100% completely inconsequential. As was the fact that I came from a significantly different background than the rest of the team. But I wore a letter and when I had something to say people listened, whether I yelled it or not.

Some people command a room and demand respect and others don’t. I think our issue has been we don’t have anyone who has those things. You’re telling me if McDavid blows up on a 1-3 year player they won’t listen to him? I will agree that there’s a difference now between respect given and respect earned, but this isn’t the Eichel team anymore. 

[LTS]

Just now, #freejame said:

I went into the army after high school, so by the time I was playing hockey in college I was at least five years older than most the guys, if not more. The difference in age was 100% completely inconsequential. As was the fact that I came from a significantly different background than the rest of the team. But I wore a letter and when I had something to say people listened, whether I yelled it or not.

Some people command a room and demand respect and others don’t. I think our issue has been we don’t have anyone who has those things. You’re telling me if McDavid blows up on a 1-3 year player they won’t listen to him? I will agree that there’s a difference now between respect given and respect earned, but this isn’t the Eichel team anymore. 

I'm not talking so much about age differential as I am era differential.

I get your point, but my question is.. "Does McDavid blow up on a 1-3 year player?"  We have no evidence of that happening or him even being that kind of player. I'd like to agree with you, but... youth is different these days.

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, LTS said:

I'm not talking so much about age differential as I am era differential.

I get your point, but my question is.. "Does McDavid blow up on a 1-3 year player?"  We have no evidence of that happening or him even being that kind of player. I'd like to agree with you, but... youth is different these days.

I convoluted your point a bit, but to me the difference in pre-9/11 kids and post-9/11 kids is a large factor in our upbringings. That age/generation difference was at the forefront in most interactions. 

For the record I don’t disagree with you, I just wanted to further clarify. 

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, LTS said:

I just want to hear about this happening on some NHL locker room today.  As much as it may pain some of us to say it, today's youth responds differently and I'm never certain if something like this would tune them in or out.  We can all say too bad, but we don't control the youth of today.

Now, if we are seeing this kind of success in other locker rooms I think there is evidence that perhaps the approach could work.

I know the arguments my son and I get into about this team often get to the point of a debate in this area. He often sides with the feel good and I'm more along the lines of how I would be smacking the ever loving crap out of some of the people on this team if I were in that locker room.

There was another B&G Insights last night with Levi and Robinson answering questions.

There is no doubt that this team is still together.  And the 2 that were taking questions are both too new to the team to have asked the question that needs to be asked (internally, as there's no way they'd answer it to people outside the room) is what are they going to change to get back on pace to the goals they set for the team heading into the year.  These 2 were quite upbeat about the team being able to right the ship.  But just doing more of what they've been doing isn't likely to do that.

And this could be a great opportunity for the next captain of the team to step up.  The guy in that room who says this is unacceptable and actually gets them to work that much harder is the guy that should be the next to wear the C.  Let's hope he's there and that he'll step up now that Okposo is out for an undisclosed period.

[That Aud Smell]

36 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Nate MacKinnon, anyone?

29 minutes ago, LTS said:

I just want to hear about this happening on some NHL locker room today. 

Bro.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

What is 13 years compared to eternity?  I could do that time standing on my head.  

I hear that in the voice of Morgan Freeman narrating Shawshank.

[That Aud Smell]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And this could be a great opportunity for the next captain of the team to step up.  The guy in that room who says this is unacceptable and actually gets them to work that much harder is the guy that should be the next to wear the C.

My sense is that Dahlin is the closest this team has to someone in the Drury mould.

[Pimlach]

Biggest reasons we are not better than last year.  In order of severity. 

1.  GM - stood pat and did not improve the team when there were glaring needs at goaltending, RHD, and forward.  Neglecting a replacement for Quinn was a massive failure. 

2.  Coaching - Every team knows how to play Buffalo and the Sabres coaches have no answers.  A massive failure was to focus on scoring and to "install defense" later;  when they tried to "install defense" they hurt the offense.   It is clear DG has a minor league staff and we rely on player skills more than on a team approach to playing the game.   We cannot employ even one system effectively while winning teams can play several.  

3.  Not ready - They wasted camp and pre-season farting around with long term prospects and 3 goalies while reading their press clippings from last year.  They talked about winning but did not do the things needed to win.  There was no work done and it showed.  They started slow and passive and never got on track.   A few minor injuries really exposed the lack of NHL depth at forward.  The mentality of this team is still the same - they take most nights off, they can't figure out how to get ready for home games, they start slow and fall behind almost very game, and they play like they expect to lose. 

4.  Drop off in play - Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Samuelsson and Power all with massive drops in production and overall play.  Some of it is due to injuries but not all.  

Non of this requires more patience from me or anyone else. IT actually requires less patience and more urgency.  

-  GM - The roster improvements can be made by trading assets from the prospect pool to fill the gaps on the roster. Not sure if Adams has it in himm but he need to made a few moves.   Sitting around waiting for prospect will kill the current core, its already killed the fan base.  

-   Coaching -  this staff has shown they have taken this group as far as they can.  Recommend a serious coaching search, bring in a proven NHL coach, let him pick his assistants and give him some say on the roster. 

-   Players -some of the core players have seen their play drop off this season.   Was it realistic to think Tage was going to have a third career year in a row?  Was it realistic to think Cozens could get 30 again, or Tuch 35 again?   Was it realistic to think that Clifton could be a 4 when he was a 6/7 at Boston?  Was it realistic to think that Levi could be a #1 goalie in his first full NHL season?   More balance is needed, it has been said many times by many people - there too many of the same types of players on this roster.  

I have little patience left.  I am ready for a new coaching staff led by a veteran coach with a strong NHL resume.  If Adams cannot get a coach AND fix the roster then I will be be ready to replace Adams too.   If Pegula cannot demand more, and figure out who to hire to get more, then he should just sell the team. 

This has gone on for WAY TOO LONG! 

As a Buffalo Hockey Fan since pre 1970 I am not going to stop watching, but I have stopped liking this team this season.  Changes are required.   Start with the entire coaching staff.   

 

Edited January 3 by Pimlach

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

My sense is that Dahlin is the closest this team has to someone in the Drury mould.

I think that Dahlin will be the next captain, but I don't see him in the Drury mold.  It may come, but I am not sure that he has it in him.  I tend to see Dylan as more the Drury type and could really grow into that role.

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I hear that in the voice of Morgan Freeman narrating Shawshank.

Actually its from The Sopranos.   Christopher Multisanti (many saints) dreamed that he was going to hell.   Paulie assured him it was only purgatory.   "What's a few thousand years in purgatory compared to eternity?  I could do that time standing on my head" 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

The regulars here are like old drinking buddies (or whatever) in that we tell the same stories, reference the same facts/factoids.

The one that comes to mind here is the story about how Drury took a virtual baseball bat to Brian Campbell's boom box. Turned the thing off and told him to keep it off. Then, looking around the locker room, told Campbell to get his ass into the weight room. If memory serves, this was after a game (or possibly a practice). Even at the time in hearing this, I remember reacting like "yowza - what a d1ck."

Nate MacKinnon, anyone?

I remember it as he only came in to the locker room and turned off the radio.

[In The Buff]

Don Granato as Axl Rose: "I've been walking the rink at night, just trying to get it right (need some patience). Its hard to skate with so many around (yeah), i know it must suck to be a fan in the crowd (could use some patience). And the excuses dont change but maybe the names (yeah). I aint got time for the game cuz i need you (yeah), just a little patience'.

Man 12-13 years & counting: i'm about all out of patience

[mjd1001]

36 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

My sense is that Dahlin is the closest this team has to someone in the Drury mould.

Dahlin, when you watch his body language....watch that interview last week between periods where he was obviously pissed.....he seems to me to be obviously frustrated.  The Question...as the teams best player, as the highest paid player with a long term deal.....does he USE that status with the team and lay into some of the players on this team that need it?   I don't think he's that guy, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if I heard he did.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

The regulars here are like old drinking buddies (or whatever) in that we tell the same stories, reference the same facts/factoids.

The one that comes to mind here is the story about how Drury took a virtual baseball bat to Brian Campbell's boom box. Turned the thing off and told him to keep it off. Then, looking around the locker room, told Campbell to get his ass into the weight room. If memory serves, this was after a game (or possibly a practice). Even at the time in hearing this, I remember reacting like "yowza - what a d1ck."

Nate MacKinnon, anyone?

The story I remember is Drury working out in the weight room and seeing an unnamed teammate performing an exercise at less than 100% effort/technique, at which point Drury said something like "if you're not going to do it right, you should just go home."

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think that Dahlin will be the next captain, but I don't see him in the Drury mold.  It may come, but I am not sure that he has it in him.  I tend to see Dylan as more the Drury type and could really grow into that role.

Me either. He doesn’t strike me as the ultra intense type.  Don’t know that I see that trait anywhere on this roster.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

My sense is that Dahlin is the closest this team has to someone in the Drury mould.

He might be.  But like @mjd1001 said, it seems that he's obviously frustrated with the way the team is going but doesn't seem to be the guy to turn that frustration outward to push his teammates to strive for his excellence.

Honestly thought Tuch would be that guy, and he does several captainly (is that a word?) things and the team does seem more sluggish when he isn't there but he doesn't seem to be able to help push them up another level either.

Personally wanted one of Girgensons/Okposo back, but not both, and am now coming to the belief that having them both in the room is keeping the other guys that should be the leaders from stepping up and taking charge for whatever reason.  (Seems likely that nobody wants to step on their toes, but it could be several reasons.)  To a man, everybody talks about how everybody gets along and there are no clicks on this team and it's all pretty much kumbaya.  When you're 3rd from the bottom, it can't be all kumbaya.  They all like each other, presumably they trust each other.  They need to trust each other enough to say the hard things that need to be said.  It either isn't coming from the coaches or it isn't getting through from them; either way they need to start holding each other accountable.  There's talent on this team and at least half of the players have been leaders on past teams.  They need to start taking things seriously.  

[sabremike]

The problem (the coach and his staff completely suck) is so painfully obvious:

 

[PerreaultForever]

14 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

 

If you believe the talent is there then it’s all coaching.  
 

Bylsma had us flirting with a 90 point season I believe.  It’s irrelevant.  
 

I know it’s been 13 years.  But the reality it’s been barely 3 in the Adams era.  He should be on the hot seat by January 2025 and Granato as soon as this season if there isn’t significant improvement before games become pressure less and meaningless in March when we’re 12 points out.  

Bylsma was a better coach than Granato is. 

We should have hired Torts. We should have hired Tochet. We should have and can hire Gallant. But this organization didn't even consider any of them. 

If they do fire Granato (which I doubt) they will just fill the season with Appert and if he has a late season surge they'll hire him for next year. Rinse and repeat. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Biggest reasons we are not better than last year.  In order of severity. 

1.  GM - stood pat and did not improve the team when there were glaring needs at goaltending, RHD, and forward.  Neglecting a replacement for Quinn was a massive failure. 

2.  Coaching - Every team knows how to play Buffalo and the Sabres coaches have no answers.  A massive failure was to focus on scoring and to "install defense" later;  when they tried to "install defense" they hurt the offense.   It is clear DG has a minor league staff and we rely on player skills more than on a team approach to playing the game.   We cannot employ even one system effectively while winning teams can play several.  

3.  Not ready - They wasted camp and pre-season farting around with long term prospects and 3 goalies while reading their press clippings from last year.  They talked about winning but did not do the things needed do to win.  There was no work done and it showed.  They started slow and passive and never got on track.   A few minor injuries really exposed the lack of NHL depth at forward.  The mentality of this team is still the same - they take most nights off, they can't figure out how to get ready for home games, they start slow and fall behind almost very game, and they play like they expect to lose. 

4.  Drop off in play - Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Samuelsson and Power all with massive drops in production and overall play.  Some of it is due to injuries but not all.  

Non of this requires more patience from me or anyone else. IT actually requires less patience and more urgency.  

-  GM - The roster improvements can be made by trading assets from the prospect pool to fill the gaps on the roster. Not sure if Adams has it in himm but he need to made a few moves.   Sitting around waiting for prospect will kill the current core, its already killed the fan base.  

-   Coaching -  this staff has shown they have taken this group as far as they can.  Recommend a serious coaching search, bring in a proven NHL coach, let him pick his assistants and give him some say on the roster. 

-   Players -some of the core players have seen their play drop off this season.   Was it realistic to think Tage was going to have a third career year in a row?  Was it realistic to think Cozens could get 30 again, or Tuch 35 again?   Was it realistic to think that Clifton could be a 4 when he was a 6/7 at Boston?  Was it realistic to think that Levi could be a #1 goalie in his first full NHL season?   More balance is needed, it has been said many times by many people - there too many of the same types of players on this roster.  

I have little patience left.  I am ready for a new coaching staff led by a veteran coach with a strong NHL resume.  If Adams cannot get a coach AND fix the roster then I will be be ready to replace Adams too.   If Pegula cannot demand more, and figure out who to hire to get more, then he should just sell the team. 

This has gone on for WAY TOO LONG! 

As a Buffalo Hockey Fan since pre 1970 I am not going to stop watching, but I have stopped liking this team this season.  Changes are required.   Start with the entire coaching staff.   

 

Well said. 

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

I remember it as he only came in to the locker room and turned off the radio.

The weight room piece was definitely part of the Drury lore -- but maybe it was related separately. Drury was a mufugger. And a winner.

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

The story I remember is Drury working out in the weight room and seeing an unnamed teammate performing an exercise at less than 100% effort/technique, at which point Drury said something like "if you're not going to do it right, you should just go home."

That's a new one for me. I recall reading a story about how he cracked the whip for some weight training after the team had already been through something (a game? a practice?).

[inkman]

4 hours ago, In The Buff said:

Don Granato as Axl Rose: "I've been walking the rink at night, just trying to get it right (need some patience). Its hard to skate with so many around (yeah), i know it must suck to be a fan in the crowd (could use some patience). And the excuses dont change but maybe the names (yeah). I aint got time for the game cuz i need you (yeah), just a little patience'.

Man 12-13 years & counting: i'm about all out of patience

Chris Cornell made this song 1000x better 

 

[pi2000]

I'm fine with the patient approach, but at some point these youngsters need to learn how to play a winning brand of hockey.   There's no structure to their game and no accountability. 

This is shaping up to be a wasted year... if anything they've regressed.

That said there's still time to turn jt around, but I don't believe KA and TP are shrewed enough to take the necessary steps.

[xzy89c1]

should we be patient to see if granato learns how to coach an NHL team?