Is There A Case For Being Patient? "Patience" is not a dirty word

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

Legitimate NHL goalies aren’t an easy thing to get and I just wish people would stop complaining about it since more than likely no one would of come in and played great just due to our play style to begin with. 
 

Samuelsson looked like a Top 4 D last year off and on but I’d of liked to have gotten one but it seems like Adams struck out with Chychrun and Pesce. Never was interested in Provorov or Krug, and Petry wasn’t a Top 4 anymore. Clifton thus far has not been Top 4 quality and Erik Johnson has been old. Effectively he went to the plate and fouled off a few balls before striking out.

One thing I certainly agree with though is getting a 3rd line winger to replace Olofsson. That did annoy me

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

We have the deepest prospect pool in the league. You've adopted the "there's nothing Adams could do" philosophy and I think it's horse turds. Multiple middle 6 forwards and several #4 defenders go in ufa every year yet Adams is the only gm who seemingly can't get one ever. 

That's a good point about UFA's. 

[bob_sauve28]

57 minutes ago, Demoted said:

How many years you gonna say "It is what it is"?

Well, I can't really do much but wait and hope it gets turned around. Trades, firings, we have done that a million times already. Let's give Donny and Kevin another year or two 

[LGR4GM]

54 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Well, I can't really do much but wait and hope it gets turned around. Trades, firings, we have done that a million times already. Let's give Donny and Kevin another year or two 

Or two! Or two!!!! ***** that

[Rasmus_]

I never need to see Comrie or Bryson again.  I love Kyle Okposo the person, but as a hockey player, I'm ready to give a younger player the role.  All the sanctimonious actions to show heart the game after fans were calling for Donny's head is great.  How about showing urgency for more than a single game stretch. Playing for a coach is great and all. But have more urgency.  It's like all the fight went out the window this year.

Edited January 3 by Rasmus_

[Skibum]

The problem is that they actually showed some legitimate promise in the latter half of last season. They have massively regressed since then. 

It's easy to be patient when the overall trajectory is upward, even if it's a slow climb. But right now, the once-upward trajectory has reversed. Badly.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Skibum said:

The problem is that they actually showed some legitimate promise in the latter half of last season. They have massively regressed since then. 

It's easy to be patient when the overall trajectory is upward, even if it's a slow climb. But right now, the once-upward trajectory has reversed. Badly.

illusion. 

Not to mention Dahlin and Cozens had their best seasons while playing for new contracts. Now they have big long term deals and their performance has dropped substantially. The holes on the roster were not adequately filled. The message to the team was we are content, we are staying the course, we are not doing the things we need to do to improve. 

Or maybe we just have to wait until Skinner's gone. 

[Second Line Center]

6 hours ago, SabresVet said:

It's Year 3 of the Adams rebuild and Buffalo has not won 2 straight since late October/early November.  They're on pace for 73-74 points after a season they had 91. 

I think a lot of people were patient last year seeing a team finish 3rd in scoring and pushing for a playoff spot.  

It's perfectly reasonable to question a rebuild that doesn't take another step forward through half a season.  

 

 

If you believe the talent is there then it’s all coaching.  
 

Bylsma had us flirting with a 90 point season I believe.  It’s irrelevant.  
 

I know it’s been 13 years.  But the reality it’s been barely 3 in the Adams era.  He should be on the hot seat by January 2025 and Granato as soon as this season if there isn’t significant improvement before games become pressure less and meaningless in March when we’re 12 points out.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not to mention Dahlin and Cozens had their best seasons while playing for new contracts. Now they have big long term deals and their performance has dropped substantially. The holes on the roster were not adequately filled.

I think people said the same thing about Skinner while he played for RK. 

I'm sorry but no way Cozens and Dahlin were simply playing for a contract last season.  This season Cozens has been playing through his injury, Dahlin through the lack of an adequate partner, both guys have also suffered from gripping their sticks too tightly and the entire team is suffering from conflicting and confusing messaging from the coaching staff.  I think both are also suffering from trying to play to the expectations that went with the new contracts.  This is not to say that both players don't have themselves to blame for some of their issues and that both can't be and should be better, but their issues are not from coasting because they got the big contracts.

Edited January 3 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

 

If you believe the talent is there then it’s all coaching.  
 

Bylsma had us flirting with a 90 point season I believe.  It’s irrelevant.  
 

I know it’s been 13 years.  But the reality it’s been barely 3 in the Adams era.  He should be on the hot seat by January 2025 and Granato as soon as this season if there isn’t significant improvement before games become pressure less and meaningless in March when we’re 12 points out.  

Nope.  NHL 0.500.  81 points season 1; 78 points season 2.  Agree his seasons are now irrelevant to what's going on today.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think people said the same thing about Skinner while he played for RK. 

I'm sorry, I know I'm very critical of all levels of the organization, but no way Cozens and Dahlin were simply playing for a contract last season.  This season Cozens has been playing through his injury, Dahlin through the lack of an adequate partner, both guys have also suffered from gripping their sticks too tightly and the entire team is suffering from conflicting and confusing messaging from the coaching staff.  I think both are also suffering from trying to play to the expectations that went with the new contracts.  This is not to say that both players don't have themselves to blame for some of their issues and that both can't be and should be better, but their issues are not from coasting because they got the big contracts.

What injury is Cozens playing through?  Prior to breaking his nose, he was not the same player this season he was last year and he's pretty much the same guy he was prior to breaking his nose now.  He isn't getting effected by that any longer.

Expect there's a greater likelihood that Dahlin is battling nagging injury at this point than Cozens is.  He hasn't looked quite the same since the cheap shot down in the Sunshine State around the All-Star break last year.

And, yeah, neither is coasting.

[Contempt]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Or two! Or two!!!! ***** that

 I think we need a series of 5 year plans... Put this guy in place as President of Hockey Ops. Let him purge the organization. 

[Broken Ankles]

14 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think people said the same thing about Skinner while he played for RK. 

I'm sorry but no way Cozens and Dahlin were simply playing for a contract last season.  This season Cozens has been playing through his injury, Dahlin through the lack of an adequate partner, both guys have also suffered from gripping their sticks too tightly and the entire team is suffering from conflicting and confusing messaging from the coaching staff.  I think both are also suffering from trying to play to the expectations that went with the new contracts.  This is not to say that both players don't have themselves to blame for some of their issues and that both can't be and should be better, but their issues are not from coasting because they got the big contracts.

Just stating facts. They were better last year than this year. You attribute it to whatever you want to. 

You know somewhere else in this website someone used that injury excuse for Dahlin. Let's use it for Tage too. And everyone else. They all have bobos and need a snuggle from their mommies to make it go away. I don't buy any of it. Every single team has guys banged up on a regular basis. Using it to justify this team's poor play is BS. "gripping their sticks too tightly" is also a hockey euphemism for "playing crap" . People use it for slumping players all the time and it's meaningless. As for the confusing and conflicting coaching messages idk, maybe, maybe not, do they get a message? Is there a message? what is the message? I don't know either. 

So if you're just saying the team is poorly coached, you get a green check mark. 

As for Skinner...............well.............his history is what it is and how his old team did once he left is on record and he's what he is but if his locker room presence is influential then he's a problem. Again idk, but we haven't won since he got here. 

[LGR4GM]

I see we have reached the blame the best player portion of the season. Dahlin is on pace for 22g and 64pts. So he's gonna get more goals than last year but less assists cuz the rest of the team can't score for *****. 

Rasmus Dahlin is the best player on the team, the fault for this season lies elsewhere. 

[John Tucker]

Well, we play all of the teams below us in the league standings over the next few weeks.  Lets see how bad this team actually is after those games.  Teams that started their rebuilds a few years ago have already blown past us.  No end in sight with this GM and coach combo.

[nfreeman]

I'm fairly patient with most of the players, but not the coaches.  When I watch the team -- especially the very frequent comatose starts to home games, plus the terrible power play -- it just screams bad coaching to me.  I'd sure like to see a real, experienced NHL coaching staff brought in before they make any major trades.

And I know everyone loves KO, but I think the team's results during his captaincy are pretty damning.  This team is dying for a Drury to show them the way.

 

[SabresVet]

9 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

If you believe the talent is there then it’s all coaching.  
Bylsma had us flirting with a 90 point season I believe.  It’s irrelevant.  
I know it’s been 13 years.  But the reality it’s been barely 3 in the Adams era.  He should be on the hot seat by January 2025 and Granato as soon as this season if there isn’t significant improvement before games become pressure less and meaningless in March when we’re 12 points out.  

We can talk all day about what happened in the past, but something is foundationally wrong with this rebuild and this year's team...which is now in Year 3.  

I don't evaluate a rebuild only by what you can see, i.e. player performance and coaches in-game decisions.  The bigger problem are the executive decisions made before a puck is dropped.  The roster composition is showing major weaknesses, like focusing on skilled guys who don't do the dirty work.  The hiring of this coach...a guy who by all appearances is solid, but isn't reaching this group anymore as evidenced by their "compete."

Someone up thread mentioned that they essentially kept the status quo from last season.  If by the half-way point of the season you're in year 3 of a rebuild sitting 14th in the conference, a shake-up is warranted.  It's too late to wait another month.  

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I see we have reached the blame the best player portion of the season. Dahlin is on pace for 22g and 64pts. So he's gonna get more goals than last year but less assists cuz the rest of the team can't score for *****. 

Rasmus Dahlin is the best player on the team, the fault for this season lies elsewhere. 

I agree with you he is this teams best player.  BUT....if you are looking for why they are so much worse than last year....why they were 1 point from a playoff last year (one good bounce, one bad/good shift in one single game...etc), then you have to look at what is different from last year to start.

What is different with this team from last years?  First, Cozens and Tage with a huge drop in production.  Second, Tuch being slightly less productive and Power having a drop off in play.  I think third you put Dahlin's play, especially the last 2-3 weeks.  That doesn't mean he isn't the best player on this team...that doesn't mean you should move him, give him less ice time or anything like that......BUT if you want to diagnose what is wrong with this team, a major thing you do is compare it to last year, and his play, to many of us, has taken a step back.

Edited January 3 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

What is 13 years compared to eternity?  I could do that time standing on my head.  

[That Aud Smell]

Stick tap to @bob_sauve28 for an unprecedented hound's breakfast of reaction emojis.

(Robyism alert, @PASabreFan.)

[LTS]

22 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

I think you are on a good track here.  Each fan will have their own expectations of what the team should do and what it should accomplish.  That is a level of subjectivity that I would not necessarily want to wade to deep into. As we see on here day in and day out, the expectations of the individual fans often lead to very real angst, irritation, and battles between posters.

However, the team itself sets expectations each year. The amount of leeway I would provide them is based very much on the expectations they set each season. This year, they expected playoffs.  It does not matter what I or anyone else on here thought of the team, the people who run the organization and the players themselves all said it. They set the expectations and since they are the ones who have to achieve, there's no level of subjectivity.

By all accounts, each and every person in the Sabres organization who has control over the product on the ice has failed to deliver on their expectation. I have no patience for that.

As for the organization overall?  I have all the patience in the world. If they don't win it's not going to impact me negatively, I will find other things to do. I want them to win, but I'm not attaching my happiness to them. It's not worth the stress.

 

[inkman]

Patience can be a dirty word.  Patience son, she’ll be of age soon enough.  

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

And I know everyone loves KO, but I think the team's results during his captaincy are pretty damning.  This team is dying for a Drury to show them the way.

Infamously, Captain Clutch could be and very often was an unpleasant, demanding as.shole of a teammate. This group clearly needs someone like that in their midst. There's too much of the same kind of guy on this roster. "Good vibes only," etc.

15 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Let's give Donny and Kevin another year or two 

My brother in Christ. Please no.

[nfreeman]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Infamously, Captain Clutch could be and very often was an unpleasant, demanding as.shole of a teammate. This group clearly needs someone like that in their midst. There's too much of the same kind of guy on this roster. "Good vibes only," etc.

This, this, a thousand times this!