Is There A Case For Being Patient? "Patience" is not a dirty word

[Archie Lee]

The Sabres are in a somewhat unique situation in that they have two waves of young players, each of which is worth getting excited about.  Somewhat arbitrarily, you can separate these players by whether they were acquired pre-arrival of Adams and post-arrival of Adams. 

Pre-Adams:  Luukkonen, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Jokiharju, R. Johnson, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Cozens.

Adams: Levi, Power, Strbek, Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Savoie, Östlund, Kulich, Rosen, Benson, Wahlberg.

The pre-Adams group is, for the most part, ready as individuals to play their roles on winning NHL teams.  Collectively they are young though. Outside of Skinner, Tuch and maybe Greenway and Clifton, there are no older veterans in higher-end roles to support this group.  Indeed, we are largely supporting the pre-Adams group with even younger players acquired by Adams. 

If the players in the pre-Adams group are not yet near to reaching their full potential, then how long will it be until a critical mass of players from the younger group reaches their potential? If the plan is to slowly integrate the even younger players into the line-up, then fans will be asked for not just patience but for extreme patience.

[SwampD]

29 minutes ago, jad1 said:

So being impatient means you want to get rid of Savoie, Kulich, and Power?

Am I impatient if I want the Sabres to keep those three guys but fire Adams?

What's the definition of impatience here?

I would use Savoie to sweeten a trade deal for an actual player, absolutely!

We already have Benson.

[oddoublee]

I have become so ambivalent as a Sabres fan. I come to this thread; and I think...yeah, I could be patient for another year. Then I go to the Fire Granato and Adam's thread; and I think...yeah, ***** has to change, and change now!

I don't have a clue anymore...I haven't seen good, stable hockey in WNY since Lindy Ruff was here. Go Sabres?

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

How long in a "patience?" 4 years, 13 years or how about 50+ years?  When does the ship turn around?  At what point does patience end and acknowledging incompetence begin?  What exactly has KA done to earn our patience?  Has he improved the defense or goaltending in the last 4 years?  Has he brought in a series of successful free agents?  Has he made the team tougher to play against?  Should we not take KA, DG, and the players' word that this season was about winning?

It's also not like the "young Sabres" aren't experienced.  

KO, EJ, and Skinner are all near or above 1000 games.  Girgensons is near 650 games.

Our core players all have 3 seasons or more of NHL experience.  Dahlin 23 (392 games), Thompson 26 (329 games), Tuch 27 (410 games), Cozens 22 (237 games), Mittelstadt 25 (315), Jokiharju 24 (305 games), Greenway 26 (360 games), Clifton 28 (267 games) and even Olofsson (293 games). Hell, even Robinson, 28, has 274 games of NHL experience. 

Except rookies Johnson and Benson, our "kids" have a fair amount of experience; Krebs 22 (171 games), Quinn 22 (83 games), JJP 21 (117 games), Samuelsson 23 (143 games), and Power 21 (125 games).  These guys should know what to do at this point.

This is no longer a team of raw players.  Sadly only kids JJP, Quinn and Benson, plus Mitts are giving a concerted effort night in and night out.  What is the rest of the players'  excuse?

The only really raw part of the team was the goaltending.  Entering the season Levi and UPL had a combined 53 games of NHL experience (Levi 7 and UPL 46).  

So how patient should we be when the GM knowingly fields a team with no proven goaltending and retains on his initial roster a series of players that even the fans know shouldn't be on the team in Olofsson, Girgensons, Comrie, Jost, Stillman, and Bryson wasting $14+mill in cap space in the process.  

Edited January 2 by GASabresIUFAN

[ska-T Palmtown]

Not to bring up the "B" word, but the Sabres did trade for Briere at the trade deadline of a season in which they did not make the playoffs. It would be the third year in a row. I am too lazy to dig too deeply, but based on the final standings, I don't think they had a realistic shot at said playoffs that year at the trade deadline.

Point: good hockey trades can happen at any point. If The Greatest Trade in Sabres History (as proclaimed by the Athletic) can happen in a non-playoff year ... maybe we (the fans) get lucky this year?

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

We’ve waited 13 years. What’s another 13 in the grand scheme of things

Don't be impatient, we should wait another 20 or 30 or even 40 years to make the playoffs. 

[Sabres73]

I am 100% on board with being more patient this year, as opposed to the usual blowing it up and putting us back another five years with a bunch of panic moves. Stick with the plan, we're not playing up to expectations, but I'm taking the long term view and it will pay off.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I am 100% on board with being more patient this year, as opposed to the usual blowing it up and putting us back another five years with a bunch of panic moves. Stick with the plan, we're not playing up to expectations, but I'm taking the long term view and it will pay off.

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

[TageMVP]

At the very least, someone should be fired. Anyone. 

Fire the equipment guy. Send a message 

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

I think that is unreasonable. Every bad team needs that and we aren't getting that.

3 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

At the very least, someone should be fired. Anyone. 

Fire the equipment guy. Send a message 

This is more like it.

[bob_sauve28]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

Where's the goalie coming from? Can't just sh it one out.

The thing about getting middle forward and 2 good defenseman is going to cost a lot, a real lot. What players you going to give up? 

 

[TageMVP]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Where's the goalie coming from? Can't just sh it one out.

The thing about getting middle forward and 2 good defenseman is going to cost a lot, a real lot. What players you going to give up? 

 

PROSPECTZ 

How many do you actually need? 

Adams needs all 342789453335 of them, apparently. 

[SwampD]

...I think Darcy used a much more appropriate word...

[Sabres73]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

All kinds of posters here are saying blow it up.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

Are you unhappy with the state of the Sabres? Then you are impatient. That’s the definition. 

Thread 

[TageMVP]

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

...I think Darcy used a much more appropriate word...

Rebuild would have been over 8 years ago if Darcy was still GM. 

If I was Pegula, I'd call Darcy right now and offer him his job back, for free. 

Then I'd can Adams and send him away with a thanks for nothin note and a fake Rolex. Not even a real one, fake. 

[Thorner]

The Sabres have been bad for 13 years relative to every single team in the NHL, teams that are operating under the exact same rules and regulations as the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres have been bad at making the playoffs relative to every team that has ever competed in the NHL, ever. Arguments like, “where are you even going to find these good players?” “It takes time” need not apply: they are objectively wrong. Sorry, it’s not an opinion: if you are using the arguments, you are incorrect. Because comparing the Sabres vs every other team in the league we have been the outlier of outliers on the bad end. It’s not an argument, it’s a fact. It’s literally a fact. The aptitude of the folks running the team has been indisputably putrid.

They do not deserve patience. We all, of course, grant them it willingly every day by showing up to this board. Because the fans are pure where the team is disingenuous. The fans deserve so much more. The fact we have threads being started about how it’s really all ok, when it really couldn’t get worse, sports wise, shows there are some who are literally happy without expectation. That’s the kind of loyalty the team laughs at as they cash your cheque. It’s admirable, I’m envious of it, but it’s sad that they are so taken advantage of.

The franchise is a joke. It’s performed worse than every other franchise for a very long time. When we eventually do make the playoffs, it can no longer be a mark of aptitude: no plan will have needed to take that long. Adams already has earmarked himself as a bad GM. We just have to hope he eventually gets lucky. In a league where half the teams make the playoffs, a pretty bad GM should be able to get in once in 5 years 

Edited January 2 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No one is saying blow it up. We're literally asking for the minimum a competent gm would do. An nhl goalie, a middle 6 forward,  2 top 4 defenders. Oh and a real pp coach.

I’m in total agreement with this post.

I know my prior post was a bit angry, but the anger comes from looking at the talent on the roster and wondering why management and the coaching can't figure out how to get the best out of the talent.

On the positive I firmly believe in Levi in net long-term.  I really like many of our forwards including Benson, JJP, Quinn, Mitts, Cozens, and Thompson.  This group could comprise most of a great top 9 with the right additions.  I also really like Dahlin’s all around game, but he needs help.  Admittedly I’m not a huge Power fan, but you don’t get drafted no.1 without real talent.  @LGR4GM is correct that both guys need better partners. 

Is it really to much to ask our GM to get the right pieces in to enhance our talented core?

Edited January 3 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m in total agreement with this post.

I know my prior post was a bit angry, but the anger comes from looking at the talent on the roster and wondering why management and the coaching can figure out how to get the best out of the talent.

On the positive I firmly believe in Levi in net long-term.  I really like many of our forwards in Benson, JJP, Quinn, Mitts, Cozens, and Thompson.  This group could comprise most of a great top 9 with the right additions.  I also really like Dahlin’s all around game, but he needs help.  Admittedly I’m not a huge Power fan, but you don’t get drafted no.1 without real talent.  @LGR4GM is correct that both guys need better partners. 

Is it really to much to ask our GM to get the right pieces in to enhance our talented core?

You white, you Ben Affleck

You make a trade, you Tim Murray

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Where's the goalie coming from? Can't just sh it one out.

The thing about getting middle forward and 2 good defenseman is going to cost a lot, a real lot. What players you going to give up? 

 

We have the deepest prospect pool in the league. You've adopted the "there's nothing Adams could do" philosophy and I think it's horse turds. Multiple middle 6 forwards and several #4 defenders go in ufa every year yet Adams is the only gm who seemingly can't get one ever. 

[SabresVet]

41 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I am 100% on board with being more patient this year, as opposed to the usual blowing it up and putting us back another five years with a bunch of panic moves. Stick with the plan, we're not playing up to expectations, but I'm taking the long term view and it will pay off.

It's Year 3 of the Adams rebuild and Buffalo has not won 2 straight since late October/early November.  They're on pace for 73-74 points after a season they had 91. 

I think a lot of people were patient last year seeing a team finish 3rd in scoring and pushing for a playoff spot.  

It's perfectly reasonable to question a rebuild that doesn't take another step forward through half a season.  

 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

It's Year 3 of the Adams rebuild and Buffalo has not won 2 straight since late October/early November.  They're on pace for 73-74 points after a season they had 91. 

I think a lot of people were patient last year seeing a team finish 3rd in scoring and pushing for a playoff spot.  

It's perfectly reasonable to question a rebuild that doesn't take another step forward through half a season.  

 

Particularly when his first year as GM arguably should be included, too, for relevance: like this year the goal was playoffs and both of those times were seemingly KA’s worst rosters by result committed to record 

54, 75, 91, 73

those are the point totals so far, with the last one obviously being a current pace 

31st (last), 24th, 20th, 27th

Those are the league standings placements 

it’s a bad collection of results 

Edited January 2 by Thorny

[Demoted]

5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Youngest team in the league won't be winning all the time. Granato and Adams should be allowed A LOT of leeway to try and figure this thing out. Losing sucks, but overreacting and firing everyone, trading away great young players and taking on some expensive vets is not the answer, IMO, Just sit back, say, "It is what it is" and get use to more losing for the time being and let this cake bake. 

 

 

How many years you gonna say "It is what it is"?