Is Adams Serious About Winning?

[TageMVP]

7 hours ago, Night Train said:

Inexperienced. 

Too in love with  "'his guys" that are underachieving and overpaid.  Darcy 2.0. Won't trade them. 

Be patient for another 12 years..

Darcy was 10x the GM Adams is. Easily 

[SabreFinn]

I think he wants to win. Last year went in some ways better than expected, and that messed up the "plan". Tages new contract was a success then, and that made Adams confident in handing out new, long contracts to several other. He could have made cheaper contracts by keeping his head cool. 

He did sign EJ and CC and I tought he did okey, they seemed like good additions by then. The defense needed an upgrade. Well, he has to make another move now! The face offs was another problem, do not know if he even tried to solve that.

Just guessing, but I think that before Devon Levi made his debut last spring, the plan was to get a veteran goaltender in the summer to pair with UPL, and keeping Levi in AHL. But Levi was so damn good, so he taught he could save some money. He should have stayed with the plan.

And since their magnificent scoring from last season has disappeared and there has not been any progress on the defensive game, Kevyn Adams has to make a new plan.

Many fans seem to be asking for a trade, I just do not really know who to trade for that A) would not be a expensive rental, B) would like to play in Buffalo? But they have a lot to offer in a trade on the other hand.

I have never liked it when the coach is the one who have to go when the players do not play well, but in this case I think Granatos contract extension is the biggest misstake made. There are no progress on any areas. But they could change the assistans coaches also.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Stop posting this garbage. 

Stop telling people what they can or can't do. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

poor Kevyn Adams

Merely telling you as I see it; I don't exactly feel bad for Adams but I can sympathize based on what we do know. What good does it do to just stomp our feet and whine about Kevyn not doing something if we give no context. It would be like blaming a person trying to buy a computer at a Best Buy on Black Friday who chooses not to because none of the deals made sense.

[Thorner]

30 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Merely telling you as I see it; I don't exactly feel bad for Adams but I can sympathize based on what we do know. What good does it do to just stomp our feet and whine about Kevyn not doing something if we give no context. It would be like blaming a person trying to buy a computer at a Best Buy on Black Friday who chooses not to because none of the deals made sense.

The Sabres finished 25th place in the league when Botterill was fired. 4 years later, Kevyn Adams has the Sabres sitting…in 26th place.

What a plan.

It’s not whining - your standards are quite *literally* non existent. You can grant him the absurdly long list of caveats you went out of your way to laboriously detail and he STILL will have done an objectively terrible job.

We’ve done nothing. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, seer775 said:

So it's settled. Neither our GM nor our Owner want to build a successful hockey franchise. 

Leave it to the player to void their contract if they don't want to play. We literally handed Reinhart, Ullmark, and Eichel to winning teams for nothing in return. What sane person would do that?

I would not call this settled.  I am sure they do want to build a successful franchise, they must believe that winning is better than losing, the business itself would be easier to deal with.   Terry does not know how to , or where to go to find out.  Adams has a plan and after some steady improvement they are off the track this season and likely to miss their goal of playoffs.   There are signs (IMO) that Adams is limited by some of the past problems with this organization and signs that his slow and deliberate approach is further alienating the fan base.  

Eichel wanted out and his injury, and the treatment for it,  was a vehicle for that.  We acquired Tuch, Krebs, Östlund,  and another pick (can't recall who).  Tuch is a top 6 power forward that had more points than Eichel last year, this he is slow by injuries and the overall bad start of the team.  Krebs so far is a very young bottom 6 player, and shows a bit of upside.  Östlund is a top prospect, right now playing as the 1C for Sweden in the WJC.  Considering Eichel was injured and going for a surgery that was still fairly new I think Adams got about as much as he could, there was the injury risk that hurt the return.  

Reinhart was not going to re-sign so the trade was made.  We acquired a first round pick who turned about to be Jiri Kulich, now a top prospect in Rochester, on e of the top scorers in the AHL, and currently Captain of Czechia WJC Team.  In addition we received  Devon Levi, our top Goalie prospect.  Reinhart is fulfilling his promise in Florida, while Kulich and Levi show enough promise to make this trade one of the best in Sabres history.  

Ullmark was an UFA, free to go anywhere.  He wanted to move on from Buffalo.  Can't blame him.  

Players cannot void their contracts.  That has never happened to my knowledge.  If you are referring to Eichel, why would you want the distraction.  You would certainly lose favor with players around the league.  The divorce was better for both parties.  

I don't like everything Adams has done, and I think he has not done enough overall,  but you must acknowledge that he has the additional and painful job of repairing this clubs poor image around the league with players, coaches and FO people.   That unfortunate fact has been a hindrance to progress.   So far he has handled that part well.  

[SDS]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

The Sabres finished 25th place in the league when Botterill was fired. 4 years later, Kevyn Adams has the Sabres sitting…in 26th place.

What a plan.

It’s not whining - your standards are quite *literally* non existent. You can grant him the absurdly long list of caveats you went out of your way to laboriously detail and he STILL will have done an objectively terrible job.

We’ve done nothing. 

You know that’s not entirely fair when last year they were one point away from the playoffs. I’m not sure the consensus on the team was that we were going to take this large of a step backwards.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

You know that’s not entirely fair when last year they were one point away from the playoffs. I’m not sure the consensus on the team was that we were going to take this large of a step backwards.

And yet, we DID take that step backwards. The consensus on whether it would happen or not is not relevant. Average out our point total from over the course of 4 seasons, then, if you prefer. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And yet, we DID take that step backwards. The consensus on whether it would happen or not is not relevant. Average out our point total from over the course of 4 seasons, then, if you prefer. 

The Sabres have played at a 75 point pace over Kevyn Adams 4 seasons as GM

[thewookie1]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Then average out our point total from over the course of 4 seasons 

But that isn’t accurate; each year is a separate entity. You can’t merely average seasons together due to the massive differences in circumstances between each season as well as one being a shortened season against a makeshift division.

Adams had a train wreck 1st season while being copilot to Krueger’s wild ride

The 2nd season saw marginal improvements

The 3rd season was our most successful season since 2012 with us being in the race until game 78. 

Thus far Season 4 has been at minimum a moderate step back. 
 

If I knew for certain that Adams willingly ignored a potential 1G trade with a reasonable ask then I’d be far less lenient but I can’t know that because I don’t work in the front office. You can be hellbent on hating Adams for inaction all you want but you are doing so from a very limited scope of information. 
 

What would you say if the extreme case was true? No one is trading a 1G for anything remotely sane. And they haven’t since Ullmark’s departure. I have no idea how close to reality this could be but would your vitriol change? 
 

I hate losing, I want better results too. I just don’t have any motivation to get worked up over a lack of moves in a position that has few trades to begin with and a league that trades are rarely done outside of the Deadline or draft/FA time. I can’t bring myself to wholesale denounce Adams for something I do not know the full story. It may be a result based world but not knowing the causes can make any final determination difficult to make. For instance, I have no qualms with Adams turning down a hypothetical Saros for 4 1sts deal this past offseason since it would be borderline psychotic. Or a Cozens for Pesce type deal. Trade offers that are ridiculous that he declines aren’t automatically a blight on his record due to circumstances. If you need $1000 and someone offers you $1000 for your Porsche you wouldn’t take it because it’s insane.

Making trades for goalies is a borderline impossible job. If it were so simple then Toronto and Edmonton wouldn’t be in constant disarray over their goalies. There are “64” NHL goalies, less than 32 would be considered legitimate 1Gs. Boston has two and the Rangers/Isles have 1.5 1Gs. Trading for a goalie is very nearly the same as trading for a QB in the NFL. The best QBs don’t get traded, the mediocre ones occasionally do when their team drops off and decide to rebuild, the bad ones are a dime a dozen and are swapped at random as needed. Rarely, if ever, do you see a generally good goalie or QB traded and when it happens you see massive overpayment and 9/10th of the time huge regrets by the team receiving the major player. After all, there’s a reason a goalie is being dealt and rarely is it flattering to the goalie. 

Arguably the best goalie we could theoretically get our hands on is John Gibson from Anaheim who is covered in warts and scars. After all good goalies are on good teams and good teams don’t trade away good goalies barring cap issues as well as a cheaper and likely better option in the wings. Jacob Markstrom would be the only other goalie that would fit the criteria of a once well thought of goalie with ok stats usually being borderline expendable. Even then those teams know they have a rare commodity and thus ask for far more than the player is actually worth. Gibson for instance has been on trade rumors for 3 years and yet nothing has happened likely due to Anaheim asking for a King’s ransom for a guy who’s at best a Prince. 

[SDS]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

And yet, we DID take that step backwards. The consensus on whether it would happen or not is not relevant. Average out our point total from over the course of 4 seasons, then, if you prefer. 

Obviously I can’t make a strong case about results given where we are today, other than point out how much better last year was. It did happen. It was real. It did happen on his watch. Neither pointing out where we are today, nor averaging four seasons tell the complete story and you know that.

Regardless, the topic is about whether he is serious about winning. I know you have massive disagreements with him and I’m not arguing those points. But just because you or anyone else disagrees with his approach, doesn’t mean he isn’t serious. He could be wrong. He could be incompetent. But as I said before, and you disagreed with, disparaging his intentions is just cheap shot fan straw-man fodder. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

Obviously I can’t make a strong case about results given where we are today, other than point out how much better last year was. It did happen. It was real. It did happen on his watch. Neither pointing out where we are today, nor averaging four seasons tell the complete story and you know that.

Regardless, the topic is about whether he is serious about winning. I know you have massive disagreements with him and I’m not arguing those points. But just because you or anyone else disagrees with his approach, doesn’t mean he isn’t serious. He could be wrong. He could be incompetent. But as I said before, and you disagreed with, disparaging his intentions is just cheap shot fan straw-man fodder. 

It’s not a cheap shot, it’s a nuance: he’s only interested in winning today in so far as it results from prioritizing winning later

Disastrous results need not follow only from a failure to want to win. They can and clearly due arise from that desire, as it relates to the now term, not being prioritized 

[Believer]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

poor Kevyn Adams

Poor Buffalo Sabres… Adams set us back a couple years, imo…

His rebuild strategy… his roster-building, his contracts, his decision-making… amounts to failure… See the BN today… Even Lysowski is beginning to see the truth…

Unclear the owner or Adams would agree, though… Pegula is enjoying his ride with the Bills… and Adams is wearing rose-colored glasses…

Given the current reality and regime, maybe we make the playoffs in the next couple years…

Unless big changes happen.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

17 hours ago, seer775 said:

So it's settled. Neither our GM nor our Owner want to build a successful hockey franchise. 

Leave it to the player to void their contract if they don't want to play. We literally handed Reinhart, Ullmark, and Eichel to winning teams for nothing in return. What sane person would do that?

Really ??

Nonsense.

[nucci]

17 hours ago, seer775 said:

So it's settled. Neither our GM nor our Owner want to build a successful hockey franchise. 

Leave it to the player to void their contract if they don't want to play. We literally handed Reinhart, Ullmark, and Eichel to winning teams for nothing in return. What sane person would do that?

I don't think people know what literally means. It's becoming the most overused word....and used incorrectly... My head is going to literally explode.

[Sidc3000]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:40 PM, LGR4GM said:

How many times are we gonna start the same thread with the same arguments? Adams hasn't done enough /thread

Until he does something. If you don’t know, most topics are the safe thing said differently 🤷‍♂️😂

[Jävə Keith]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

I don't think people know what literally means. It's becoming the most overused word....and used incorrectly... My head is going to literally explode.

 

[Flashsabre]

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/buffalo-sabres-nhl-tyson-jost-don-granato-eric-comrie/article_5f1011a0-a599-11ee-a3a6-6f83e0bfe3d0.html

[Sidc3000]

I do believe that Adams want to win. This is his hometown team and this is his dream job. I think his back is against a wall by severe restrictions by Pegula and players NTL’s. No legit player wants to come to this shithole of a team. No good player wants to be affiliated with this team. 

[LGR4GM]

No, I don't think Adams or Granato is serious about winning. 

[FrenchConnection44]

I think he's trying to build a roster that wins and I like a lot of the talent in the pipeline and on the team but it comes down to poor coaching above all, imo. Secondly, poor player development (not just in play but in terms of individual development). They need to put a ton more resources into that. And that is on Pegula and Adams. That said, as I and others (and the video above) have noted (generating ill-tempered criticism) it's generally the same players he keeps drafting or accumulating. Arguably the most consistently physical player is also the most skilled - Dahlin. Cozens tries but the guy has to add strength and muscle weight (about 10 more lbs) as do most of the rest of the club. 

 

 

[HumanSlinky39]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No, I don't think Adams or Granato is serious about winning. 

I think they both want to win. Problem is, Granato doesn't know how to get these guys to play the way they need to to win. I think Adams believes in his plan and it eventually will win, but when? It seems pretty clear he's all in on building the roster with homegrown talent. Problem is, that will likely take years and you have a fanbase that's staring down a 13th consecutive season without sniffing the playoffs and there is no patience for a further prolonged rebuild.

Personally, I think the current roster, with a few tweaks, absolutely can win. Unfortunately, right now, they're saddled with a coaching staff that has no idea how to get them to play with the effort and ability they flash occasionally. We see the same ***** issues almost every game and nobody is held accountable and few changes are made...the ones that are made amount to shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. This team is going to pass 2 months without winning back-to-back games. The special teams are a sludge fart. They come out listless and uninspired almost every game. They make the same boneheaded mistakes pretty much every game. Almost the entire roster has regressed significantly from a strong finish last season. These are all coaching issues. But, it seems like Adams is "all in" on Granato and crew. I don't see them making a move any time soon. We'll hear the same platitudes after every loss. We'll hear them blame injuries. We'll hear them say they just need to get back to work. And they'll keep taking one step forward followed by 2 steps back.

What this organization lacks is a buffer between the owner and the operational side. They have nobody to hold anybody accountable. A serious hockey organization would see this season slipping away, judge it a failure and hold the GM's feet to the fire. A serious organization would move on from Granato and be looking for a coach that can get these guys to actually play hockey. This is not a serious hockey organization.

[Cityo'Rasmii]

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

I think they both want to win. Problem is, Granato doesn't know how to get these guys to play the way they need to to win. I think Adams believes in his plan and it eventually will win, but when? It seems pretty clear he's all in on building the roster with homegrown talent. Problem is, that will likely take years and you have a fanbase that's staring down a 13th consecutive season without sniffing the playoffs and there is no patience for a further prolonged rebuild.

Personally, I think the current roster, with a few tweaks, absolutely can win. Unfortunately, right now, they're saddled with a coaching staff that has no idea how to get them to play with the effort and ability they flash occasionally. We see the same ***** issues almost every game and nobody is held accountable and few changes are made...the ones that are made amount to shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. This team is going to pass 2 months without winning back-to-back games. The special teams are a sludge fart. They come out listless and uninspired almost every game. They make the same boneheaded mistakes pretty much every game. Almost the entire roster has regressed significantly from a strong finish last season. These are all coaching issues. But, it seems like Adams is "all in" on Granato and crew. I don't see them making a move any time soon. We'll hear the same platitudes after every loss. We'll hear them blame injuries. We'll hear them say they just need to get back to work. And they'll keep taking one step forward followed by 2 steps back.

What this organization lacks is a buffer between the owner and the operational side. They have nobody to hold anybody accountable. A serious hockey organization would see this season slipping away, judge it a failure and hold the GM's feet to the fire. A serious organization would move on from Granato and be looking for a coach that can get these guys to actually play hockey. This is not a serious hockey organization.

I agree they want to win. 

[jad1]

Adams is serious about winning.  He wants to build the Sabres into a dynasty. Unfortunately, his plan to build that dynasty is batsh##t crazy.

We all get that he wants to develop the team internally and keep the cap pristine.  But we are in the 4th season of the Adams reign and the Sabres are the youngest team in the league.  That isn't progress; that's insanity.

The fault in Adam's plan is that a young player's progression isn't linear.  We know this from watching the careers of Thompson, Mittlestadt, and Dahlin.  Young players are often inconsistent and mistake-prone.  And when you liter your NHL roster with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players, your team is going to be inconsistent and mistake-prone.

That's why most NHL GMs block their young players path to the NHL and sign bridge players to the team.  Guys who maybe have lower ceilings than the younger players, but bring immediate experience and know-how to the roster.  Guys who play the game the right way, and understand the effort needed to win in the NHL.

Adams is terrible at adding these type of bridge players to the roster.  He places young players into key roles, and when those players suffer a regression common to a young player's progression, the team suffers.

But many might say that despite the Sabres youth, they only missed the playoffs by 1 point last season.  And sure, that's encouraging, but the team still finished 19th overall in the league.  Considering that the Sabres actually got younger this season, their drop-off from 19th to 25th isn't that surprising.  In fact, it's  kind of predictable.

And let's be clear that bringing in bridge players doesn't mean that you clear out the prospect pipeline or ruin the salary cap for the next 10 years.  It means bringing in talent a bit better than Clifton or Johnson.  It means finding a winger who can contribute on the 3rd line while your 18 year old wunderkind works on building up his strength in juniors.

It means throwing a couple of extra million at Ullmark to convince him to stay for 4 more years, giving your young goalies time and space to develop.

Adams plan to build a future dynasty has caused havoc to the franchise's current situation, but is the longer term goal still achievable?  It's hard to say.  I guess if you believe that failure and playing the game the wrong way leads to winning, it still is achievable.  But it's difficult to see that switch flipping for a team that will probably get even younger next season.

Adams does want to win.  He just has no clue how to do it.