The Sabres Should Go Back to Run And Gun

[sabresouth]

52 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it isn't just one or two players, its a team wide/organization wide thing:

-Okposo...hes a 'vet' but he makes plenty of mistakes in his own zone.  Leaves open areas, doesn't know where to go. He never has played for a team in his career that excelled defensively.

-Peterka, Benson and Krebs do a lot of 'stick waving' They could engage people more than they do.

-Cozens.  Probably the worst player at abandoning his man and leaving wide open areas of the ice for opposing players to walk in, just so he chases the puck. I know others love him, but He might be in the bottom 10% of players who know how to play in the defensive zone.

-Mitts has gotten better, but he still does a lot of stick waving. Skinner likes to hang around the blue line and not go in too deep to help.  Tuch and Thompson have good games and bad games.

The only person I rarely see out of position, rarely leaving his side of the ice wide open to chase a puck is Girgensons.  But a lot of people want him off this team for whatever reason, even though he might be the single one, the only sound forward on this team in his own end.

To the bold. He can't score. He brings almost zero offense. He has 2 goals and 0 assists in 20 games.

[pi2000]

46 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it isn't just one or two players, its a team wide/organization wide thing:

-Okposo...hes a 'vet' but he makes plenty of mistakes in his own zone.  Leaves open areas, doesn't know where to go. He never has played for a team in his career that excelled defensively.

-Peterka, Benson and Krebs do a lot of 'stick waving' They could engage people more than they do.

-Cozens.  Probably the worst player at abandoning his man and leaving wide open areas of the ice for opposing players to walk in, just so he chases the puck. I know others love him, but He might be in the bottom 10% of players who know how to play in the defensive zone.

-Mitts has gotten better, but he still does a lot of stick waving. Skinner likes to hang around the blue line and not go in too deep to help.  Tuch and Thompson have good games and bad games.

The only person I rarely see out of position, rarely leaving his side of the ice wide open to chase a puck is Girgensons.  But a lot of people want him off this team for whatever reason, even though he might be the single one, the only sound forward on this team in his own end.

...and hence a coaching problem.    Good coaches don't let their players get away with the stick waving and fly-bys.    Granato lets it happen by not holding them accountable.    Don't get me wrong, he certainly knows the game well enough to identify these things and provide corrective instruction.... however that's not enough.  

And now he's at a point where he just like "***** it, go play how you guys want to go play and let the chips fall where they may".      He's essentially saying he's lost control of the group and it's up to them to decide how they want to play.     What value does he provide other than "the players like me and want to win for me because I'm nice to them".      That's loser talk.

[TageMVP]

21 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

...and hence a coaching problem.    Good coaches don't let their players get away with the stick waving and fly-bys.    Granato lets it happen by not holding them accountable.    Don't get me wrong, he certainly knows the game well enough to identify these things and provide corrective instruction.... however that's not enough.  

And now he's at a point where he just like "***** it, go play how you guys want to go play and let the chips fall where they may".      He's essentially saying he's lost control of the group and it's up to them to decide how they want to play.     What value does he provide other than "the players like me and want to win for me because I'm nice to them".      That's loser talk.

I agree with this. I think every fan here would like to see a balanced team that hits, scores and plays defense with excellent goaltending. 

The problem is, everything else but scoring is a weakness. The Sabres do not have a roster built for a balanced team. So, you play to your strengths. 

I remember Ruff being mad at Vanek and instructed him to be more defensive minded. It didn't work, Vanek didn't like it and eventually Ruff was fired. Not for that reason alone, but he had lost the team overall. Besides,  Vanek was a 40 goal scorer, defense was just not how he played. When you're that offensively gifted, the defensive lapses don't matter as much.  Some guys can get away with that. I wouldn't care if Ovechkin was a bad defender because he scores 50 every year.  

My main point is that you have to play to your strengths, because that's what you're best at. This team is built for scoring. Trying anything else was probably a long shot anyway. 

I like Granato, he's done some great things, but it's looking more and more with each passing day that he's not the guy. 

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, sabresouth said:

To the bold. He can't score. He brings almost zero offense. He has 2 goals and 0 assists in 20 games.

I don't totally agree with that. He's a 4th liner. He scores decently for a 4th liner.  Goals per 60 over the last 2 seasons, he is only .08 behind Mitts, and better than his linemates (Okposo, Krebs, and Jost).  Is he putting in 20 a season? No, but when he plays he does score as much as many other 4th liners...but you get the added benefit of him being really the ONLY defensively responsible guy among the forwards on the entire team.

He is at .57 goals per 60 this season, and he consistently is near .6 - .65.  Thats about what you can expect from a decent 4th liner.  And yes, to account for limited ice time and lack of PP usage, goals per 60 is probably the best way to figure out contribution from a 4th liner.

Look at the best teams in the league...Boston's 10th-12th forwards average .57 goals per 60. Rangers? .31 goals per 60. Kings? .87 Vancouver? .59.  Vegas? .56   Colorado?  .34  Toronto?  .50  For a 4th line, he is in line...maybe SLIGHTLY better in terms of production than most.

Its not his job on that line to put up points..its keep the puck in the offensive zone, bang on the boards, and yes, when you can throw the puck to the net.  Even if you look at other Metrics...shooting percentage...in a limited basis he is matching Cozens this season..and over a longer time frame, he is at 9.4% which is equal to or slightly better than most other teams are getting out of their 10th-12th forward.

He skates hard, still has speed, is one of your better penalty killers (he isn't out of position much), and he DOES score at an equal to slightly better rate than a typical 4th liner around the league. I'm not sure why so many are  in a rush to get rid of him.

Edited December 27, 2023 by mjd1001