After the latest loss, what does accountability look like?

[MISabresFan]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I don't know the right answer.

It looks increasingly clear that if DG remains as HC, they will limp to yet another bottom-7 finish, with the stink of losing becoming further ingrained among the new core and the fan base becoming increasingly apathetic (if not hostile).

A real NHL team wouldn't just sit back and let that happen without firing the HC.

OTOH, firing yet another coach does seem like it would increase the apparent disinterest among experienced, accomplished NHL coaches/GMs in coming here.

What a great idea the tank was.

Great thought.  Do you plug the hole in a sinking ship and try to save it, or let it sink?

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Conner Clifton is absolutely terrible 

At :58 misses a horrendous attempt at a hip check you never see anymore.  Barely 10 seconds later the weakest attempt to clear as this shift is gone on over a minute.  
 

Just because he was with Boston doesn’t mean he was good.  His game stinks.  He can be physical and that’s all I’ll say.   

The forwards were the bigger problem in this video.  The defense set up and executed several breakouts, each time the forwards got stuffed in the neutral zone and the puck came immediately back in our defensive zone, after 3 or 4 clears we managed to change the forward line and the next group of forwards did a free skate - they never touched the puck or tied up a BJ player.   The way the forwards play defense is the first thing to fix.   That is called the system.  

When did DG teach team defense?  Was it during the off season?  No, the off season was spent looking at the shinny prospects and not getting ready to play for the playoffs.

The team defense is terrible but the two defenders are usually the ones that fans here blame for the goals.   In this example, if the forwards could have just once got a puck deep we could have changed the defense too.  

Not that the defense is very good. They are not.  But the bigger problems to me is the forwards.  Many of them are lazy and soft.   

Watch and count how many times they broke out the puck of their zone and got stopped in the neutral zone, failing to get pucks deep in the opponents zone is a failure to work hard.  Columbus did it, Buffalo did not.   That is what I see.  

Lesser talented teams (Philly, Montreal, Arizona, Columbus) beat us because of this unwillingness to work.  

Edited December 20, 2023 by Pimlach

[Demoted]

This is supposed to be entertainment and instead it's just sad. I should have known better but I tricked myself.

[Sidc3000]

Obviously you didn’t hear DG’s comments a few weeks should when he said they’re accountable to themselves. I Durant bench anyone because we don’t want to punish anyone

i don’t see Pegula firing Adams or DG purely for financial reasons. he can’t afford to pay them and new ones

[jad1]

24 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

Obviously you didn’t hear DG’s comments a few weeks should when he said they’re accountable to themselves. I Durant bench anyone because we don’t want to punish anyone

i don’t see Pegula firing Adams or DG purely for financial reasons. he can’t afford to pay them and new ones

Pegula's Googled net worth is 6.8 billion.  Granato's extension is 4 million over the next two years.  Granato's salary is roughly .0006% of Pegula's net worth.

Putting that into context, for a person who makes 30 grand, .0006% of that salary is rounded up to 18 bucks.

Pegula can afford to fire Granato.

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/focus-falls-on-sabres-coach-don-granato-after-buffalo-is-embarrassed-in-9-4-loss-to-columbus-1.2051302
 

The Canadian media has taken notice.

I wonder who Adams has on his side in that media base

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

The answer is decimation. One out of every ten members of the organization. From Pegula down to the newest intern. 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Technically that’s 50%
 

It should be a gif of Romans being killed by commanders.

 

🙂

[Sidc3000]

25 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Pegula's Googled net worth is 6.8 billion.  Granato's extension is 4 million over the next two years.  Granato's salary is roughly .0006% of Pegula's net worth.

Putting that into context, for a person who makes 30 grand, .0006% of that salary is rounded up to 18 bucks.

Pegula can afford to fire Granato.

You don’t use your personal worth to fund your business decisions. If you can’t use the money from the business to fund the decisions than you don’t fund it. 

[FrenchConnection44]

1 minute ago, Sidc3000 said:

You don’t use your personal worth to fund your business decisions. If you can’t use the money from the business to fund the decisions than you don’t fund it. 

Normally. But not in sports. Most teams don’t make a ton of profit and the better owners pay what they can. The money in sports ownership is the profit from the sale of the team (which ironically is usually around 10-12% increase year over year). Otherwise, a good owner spares no expense. Only way to compete in in the sports world against other multi-billionaires. 

[Sidc3000]

23 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Normally. But not in sports. Most teams don’t make a ton of profit and the better owners pay what they can. The money in sports ownership is the profit from the sale of the team (which ironically is usually around 10-12% increase year over year). Otherwise, a good owner spares no expense. Only way to compete in in the sports world against other multi-billionaires. 

And Pegula has to use his money to fund the Bills stadium overrun which is at $300 million at the moment. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sidc3000

[jad1]

35 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

You don’t use your personal worth to fund your business decisions. If you can’t use the money from the business to fund the decisions than you don’t fund it. 

Sure you do.  If you're starting a business, you can use your personal worth to back a loan.  If you want to expand your business, you can do the same.

The Sabres are a privately owned business.  If the owner wants to fire the coach to improve the team, he'd be more than willing to spend the equivalent of 18 bucks from his own pocket if the team can't cover the cost (which, by the way, it easily can).

Money is no part of Pegula's decision to fire the coach.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by jad1

[Sidc3000]

10 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Sure you do.  If you're starting a business, you can use your personal worth to back a loan.  If you want to expand your business, you can do the same.

The Sabres are a privately owned business.  If the owner wants to fire the coach to improve the team, he'd be more than willing to spend the equivalent of 18 bucks from his own pocket if the team can't cover the cost (which, by the way, it easily can).

Money is no part of Pegula's decision to fire the coach.

 

 

Oh I’m sure it is. just about everything the Sabres have done in the past couple years had to do with saving money. He also has to fund several high priced players too and a new football stadium 🤦‍♂️

[jad1]

5 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

Oh I’m sure it is. just about everything the Sabres have done in the past couple years had to do with saving money. He also has to fund several high priced players too and a new football stadium 🤦‍♂️

The Sabres Googled yearly revenue is 124M.  They'd be on the hook for Granato's extension for 2M a year.  In other words, it'll cost them less than 2% of their yearly revenue to fire Granato. 

The Sabres Googled value is 900m.  Pegula bought the team for 189M.  He has a 711M profit in the team.  Granato's 4M extension is .006% of that profit.

The Bills new stadium is the most expensive construction project in WNY history.  It's googled cost is 1.35B.  Pegula can fund the construction of FIVE stadiums at that price, at the same time out of his own pocket, and STILL have $500M left in his bank account.

The Bills salary cap is 240M.  If the Bills don't make another dime ever again, Pegula can fund the team out his own pocket for the next 28 years.

There is no way in hell Pegula is thinking that the best way to improve the Sabres is to fire the coach, but I'm not going to do that  because I need to save money.

 

[FrenchConnection44]

49 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

And Pegula has to use his money to fund the Bills stadium overrun which is at $300 million at the moment. 

In that case, however, the profit there, especially given that NY and Erie paid for the bulk of the stadium, is going to more than pay for any overruns. The huge increase in luxury boxes will be a massive boon for him. Plus he has the money.   

Stephen Ross paid for the entire upgrade to the Dolphins’ stadium - $500 million. That, after purchasing the team and stadium, and also building a $135 million practice facility. The Dolphins also built their own 80,000 acre turf facility to supply their own grass  which they replace about every 2-3 weeks. 
 

This is what good owners do (not that Ross is a ‘good’ owner. He is bungling; but he is also willing to pour his money into the organization). And he is willing to put the money into the organization. Basically, whatever the team needs, he sits there with his checkbook ready. Same with the Dodgers ownership. And many other teams.
 

Where I think Pegula needs to put his money is both in hiring a new coach and in organizational and player development. 

 

 

[Sabres Super Fan]

Beyond firing the head coach and general manager this roster needs changes if the Buffalo Sabres are going to survive in the city of Buffalo long term. The problem I see as a Buffalo Sabres fan of 49 years is that a large portion of the Buffalo fans won’t go to games anymore because the Sabres aren’t winning. You can’t guarantee winning but you can guarantee entertaining. Where Terry Pegula and Kevyn Adams screwed up is dumping all there franchise money into defenseman Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power. Unless you are Bobby Orr that is a huge mistake for a small market hockey city to dump money into defensemen. Think about the history of the Buffalo Sabres when did Punch Imlach, Scotty Bowman and the Knox Brothers dump all their money into expensive franchise defensemen? They didn’t the money went to the Gilbert Perrault, Rick Martin, Danny Gare, etc. The Buffalo Sabres always had scoring forwards that put Buffalo fans in the seats. I get it Jack Eichel didn’t work out but to turn around and dump your big money in defenseman is a luxury for big market teams that draw regardless like the Toronto Maple Leafs, Boston Bruins and New York Rangers. I personally wouldn’t have signed those deals I would have moved both of them for proven goal scorers like Rene Robert, Pat LaFontaine etc. The Sabres will never draw with Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power there mid card hockey players on a professional wrestling card. You need Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair not Hillbilly Jim and Uncle Elmer. That is what the Buffalo Sabres are mid card hockey players that can’t draw the owner money. I guarantee if Terry Pegula sold the Sabres the new owners would flip Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power for scorers right away.

That is why losing out on once was Patrick Kane to the Detroit Red Wings was crushing to the long term future of the Sabres franchise in Buffalo. Few want to see $11 million dollars defenseman get 50 to 60 points that doesn’t sell tickets or excitement other than hard core hockey fans which makes the Sabres tickets a tough sell to the casual fans. This is a seriously flawed ownership that doesn’t know how to basically sell hockey entertainment that is why long term the Sabres are in serious trouble when that lease is up in a few years. Terry Pegula seems half interested at best which is a problem. But Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power need to packaged in a series of moves to get the Sabres a proven goal scorer that produces yearly. Dahlin and Power are no use for saving the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. The Sabres needed to flip Jack Eichel for another proven star player main card hockey player not pieces of mid card hockey players. The Sabres have too many mid card hockey players on the Sabres roster that cost a lot of money but they don’t fill the seats so that is crushing for drawing Buffalo casual Sabres fans in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Sabres Super Fan

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, jad1 said:

Pegula's Googled net worth is 6.8 billion.  Granato's extension is 4 million over the next two years.  Granato's salary is roughly .0006% of Pegula's net worth.

Putting that into context, for a person who makes 30 grand, .0006% of that salary is rounded up to 18 bucks.

Pegula can afford to fire Granato.

Certainly he can, and he has eaten many bad contracts.  
 

He runs the Sabres on a budget though.  He didn’t get the $6.8B by losing money.  If he fires Donny it will be to stop the pain and the negative attention.  
 

 

[Sabres Super Fan]

30 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

In that case, however, the profit there, especially given that NY and Erie paid for the bulk of the stadium, is going to more than pay for any overruns. The huge increase in luxury boxes will be a massive boon for him. Plus he has the money.   

Stephen Ross paid for the entire upgrade to the Dolphins’ stadium - $500 million. That, after purchasing the team and stadium, and also building a $135 million practice facility. The Dolphins also built their own 80,000 acre turf facility to supply their own grass  which they replace about every 2-3 weeks. 
 

This is what good owners do (not that Ross is a ‘good’ owner. He is bungling; but he is also willing to pour his money into the organization). And he is willing to put the money into the organization. Basically, whatever the team needs, he sits there with his checkbook ready. Same with the Dodgers ownership. And many other teams.
 

Where I think Pegula needs to put his money is both in hiring a new coach and in organizational and player development. 

 

 

I agree with all of that and flipping Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power for a proven goal scoring forward that draws interest from casual hockey fans. Too much money in mid card hockey players that don’t fill seats that was a huge mistake by Terry Pegula and Kevyn Adams. They need a Alex Mogilny that fans want to come see play. It also hurts that Rasmus Dahlin and Owen Power have no personality so there just there they’re not gate attraction marquee stars like a Buffalo Bills Josh Allen or a Stefon Diggs who both have personality. The Sabres have way too many players with next to zero personality which is a huge problem when the Sabres are struggling to sell tickets. There is a lot of elitism with the Sabres players let the fans eat cake. Good luck drawing Buffalo fans with the attitude last night was not a good look for the Sabres organization. Buffalo fans are fed up and speaking with their wallets the heck with the Sabres which is sad. The Sabres players being in denial with ridiculous excuses doesn’t help the present situation in my opinion. Go Sabres! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[jad1]

Just now, Pimlach said:

Certainly he can, and he has eaten many bad contracts.  
 

He runs the Sabres on a budget though.  He didn’t get the $6.8B by losing money.  If he fires Donny it will be to stop the pain and the negative attention.  
 

 

I still have hope that Pegula's goal is to have the Sabres win, despite his crushing incompetence in achieving that goal. 

The amount of money that the team would need to eat with Granato's firing is so small when measured against the team's revenue, value, and owner's net worth, that it's hard to conceive that saving thus amount of money is part of the equation. 

There are so many more interesting discussions to have about the owner's ineptitude than the one asserting he's trying to save money.

 

 

[pi2000]

They're all underperforming... both as individuals and as a team. 

That's 100% on the coach.

The fact he's still here sends a message that winning isn't really all that important.... set your expectations accordingly!

Edited December 21, 2023 by pi2000

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The forwards were the bigger problem in this video.  The defense set up and executed several breakouts, each time the forwards got stuffed in the neutral zone and the puck came immediately back in our defensive zone, after 3 or 4 clears we managed to change the forward line and the next group of forwards did a free skate - they never touched the puck or tied up a BJ player.   The way the forwards play defense is the first thing to fix.   That is called the system.  

When did DG teach team defense?  Was it during the off season?  No, the off season was spent looking at the shinny prospects and not getting ready to play for the playoffs.

The team defense is terrible but the two defenders are usually the ones that fans here blame for the goals.   In this example, if the forwards could have just once got a puck deep we could have changed the defense too.  

Not that the defense is very good. They are not.  But the bigger problems to me is the forwards.  Many of them are lazy and soft.   

Watch and count how many times they broke out the puck of their zone and got stopped in the neutral zone, failing to get pucks deep in the opponents zone is a failure to work hard.  Columbus did it, Buffalo did not.   That is what I see.  

Lesser talented teams (Philly, Montreal, Arizona, Columbus) beat us because of this unwillingness to work.  

You identified the issue that is plaguing this team: Effort. What is exasperating and even more inexcusable is that against some of the best teams in the league this team has shown that it has the capacity to play hard and tough against throughout the game. The Colorado, Boston, Ranger and Vegas games are examples where this team has shown what it is capable of when it is determined to do so. 

What does these episodic examples of playing the right way mean? It means that there is a team character and roster flaw. When you can't maintain an acceptable level of effort on a regular basis, then the mix in the roster and coaching staff have to be altered. 

Buffalo plays Toronto tomorrow. The house will be filled with a lot of Toronto fans. I won't be surprised if the Sabres play well and win. A win tomorrow won't impress me. They have to play the right way on a consistent basis. That's the problem! For whatever reason/s they can't do that. 

[bunomatic]

If these guys can’t find it within themselves to bare down and give it when they make the kind of money they make they don’t belong in the league. But I think what these players want is a system that they can believe in and a system that works. Other teams seem to have it. Its a part of their culture and its bigger than any individual player. Lose a player another steps in and the system continues to work. Some will hate this but the bruins come to mind. The Sabres don’t have that. Its coaching 100%. The players won’t say it but they want that from their coach. As do the fans imo.

Edited December 21, 2023 by bunomatic

[JohninMinn.]

It's a lack of consistent effort. These guys take nights off and you can see it in their skating. Ownership and coaching can't change personalities. How can you change a Power into a Benson mindset?

[Flashsabre]

Everyone wants Granato fired.

It’s not about firing Granato it’s about who takes over behind the bench. If it’s Ellis or Appert then nothing is changing so what’s the point.

If they actually want to get serious, bring in Gallant and see if that lights a fire under the team.

Im just so defeated after 13 years of this I don’t trust them to make any right decisions.

[Ross Rhea]

Been a Granato supporter but at some point this needs to be addressed as not good enough and a change is needed.