Are the Forwards good enough ?

[Norcal]

6 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

That's honestly a really good question. I think the core of it is maturity. We see a lot of players who lack toughness/grit "find" it in their game after a few years in the AHL or NHL. Generally, the players who develop grit/toughness are the same players who dominated junior hockey and it was an unused part of the game simply because they were just that much more talented than others (and played with other superstars themselves). 

Is that something that developed from coaching? Is it a natural evolution stemming from a need to adapt to survive in a league of relative parity? Is it just a consequence of physical growth and mental maturity? Or is it some internal motivation coming from looking at your NHL-level teammates and realizing these are guys playing playoff series with broken ribs?

I haven't a clue.

I think all players are tough but not all players play with the fire in their belly. 

Coaches like Torts seem to get about as much fire as they can from their players and it shows in their play and in their record so far. 

The current Sabres team doesn't have anyone playing with that fire right now. 

They need that.

 

[North Buffalo]

Once Tuch, Greenway and Quinn come back... sit KO and Krebs

[Stads]

11 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Once Tuch, Greenway and Quinn come back... sit KO and Krebs

I would swap Jost for Krebs, but that's just my humble opinion. Krebs has come on over the last few games

[mjd1001]

14 hours ago, Stads said:

I would swap Jost for Krebs, but that's just my humble opinion. Krebs has come on over the last few games

Jost and Krebs can alternate for all I care, they both have taken a step back this year.  Sure, there is something to be said for giving a guy a chance without him worrying about getting benched, but both of those guys have had that chance and it didn't do much for them. I'm at the point where you play them, and let them know they give 100% effort all the time and bring it each game, and if they don't, its the other guys turn.

[inkman]

13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Jost and Krebs can alternate for all I care, they both have taken a step back this year.  Sure, there is something to be said for giving a guy a chance without him worrying about getting benched, but both of those guys have had that chance and it didn't do much for them. I'm at the point where you play them, and let them know they give 100% effort all the time and bring it each game, and if they don't, its the other guys turn.

I have no problem with either player.  Give them linemates that can actually do something with the puck and they will be fine.  Playing with 28 & 21 is going to kill every offensive metric there is.  

[French Collection]

Robinson and Greenway on L4 would make Krebs play angrier.

[Crusader1969]

29 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Robinson and Greenway on L4 would make Krebs play angrier.

This could be something if you believe 

skinner Tage Tuch
JJP Cozens Quinn
Kulich/Rosen Mitts Benson 

are your top 9 

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

This could be something if you believe 

skinner Tage Tuch
JJP Cozens Quinn
Kulich/Rosen Mitts Benson 

are your top 9 

Mitts gets saddled with youth but Benson plays smart enough to help. Kulich blasting Mitts’ passes could be a nice pairing.

There is some defensive conscience between Mitts and Benson.

[Pimlach]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:41 PM, Mango said:

I think they are all good pieces. But they aren't complete enough to carry anything. 

The goal for the next season should be to move Greenway and even Tuch to the 3rd line. That doesn't meaning let Kulich struggle on the wing to find his NHL game. That means immediately upgrading those two positions in the top 6. Those two guys have the skill set to play that line, and they can put pucks in the net.

A pipe dream would be to do it internally. Something like: 

Skinner - Thompson - Cozens
JJP - Mitts - Benson 
Greenway - ??? - Tuch

If you can get some return on Skinner you could move JJP up and if Quinn finds his game he can play the second line. 

(Does anybody else have a tough time with formatting on SS compared to TBD. My spacing is sometimes wonky and impossible to fix. @SDS)

Tuch is a top 6 power forward that should get a lot of minutes. You can call that 3rd line but he needs more minutes than Skinner, JJP, Benson, etc.  

You forgot Quinn in top 6/9.  

A restored Cozens at center, and a healthy Quinn, should be be reunited with JJP to see is that still clicks.  

Greenway on the 4th line next year is a possibility.   

 

[GoPuckYourself]

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Tuch is a top 6 power forward that should get a lot of minutes. You can call that 3rd line but he needs more minutes than Skinner, JJP, Benson, etc.  

You forgot Quinn in top 6/9.  

A restored Cozens at center, and a healthy Quinn, should be be reunited with JJP to see is that still clicks.  

Greenway on the 4th line next year is a possibility.   

 

Quinn isn’t healthy, Cozens isn’t restored, and while Tuch has been good at times he has yet played his best hockey this year. 

Im not super confident projecting 2-3 guys like Tuch, Cozens, and Quinn on top lines who have yet to play top 6 hockey.

[GASabresIUFAN]

When healthy what does our lineup really look like?  There are 15 forwards in play for the lineup as the injuries heel.  Below is what a lineup might look like when everyone is healthy. 

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Mitts Quinn

Benson Cozens VO

Robinson Krebs Greenway

(Jost, KO and Girgensons)

Tuch, Girgensons, Quinn, and Greenway are still on IR.  CBSsports lists Greenway, Tuch, and Girgensons as possible after Dec 13 and Quinn out until at least Jan 4, but Quinn is already skating without a non-contact jersey so maybe he'll return earlier than expected.  

Is this a playoff-caliber forward group?  What does it need? Who are the first to be sent packing as the injured heel?  Depending on what other decisions KA makes regarding goaltending and D, between 1-3 of these forward would need to be moved over the next month.  

Obviously, Rosen gets sent down to make room for the next returnee.  After that it gets interesting.  Does Levi get returned to the minors?  What if he continues to play well?  Does Comrie finally get waived?  What about Ryan Johnson or Bryson?  Bryson should be the first D let go.  Ryan Johnson has earned an extended opportunity.  Will they loan Benson to team Canada to avoid waiving someone like Robinson for a while?  What if Robinson outplays Girgensons?  Does the longest-tenured Sabres get traded finally? 

None of these moves honestly make the forward group really any better even with everyone back.  When I look at the fully healthy lineup, I still see at least 3 forward slots in need of better players.  I'd like to see another solid winger on the 4th line and a capable two way center who can play up and down the lineup.  I'd also replace VO, but he has not been a huge issue of late.  I still might move DC to wing and bring in two centers to replace both Krebs and Cozens in the middle.  If KA can get a center very soon, I still would demote Krebs while he is waiver-exempt.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[GoPuckYourself]

We need a faceoff guy badly if we're running 4 lines.... Do we have such a guy in Rocha cha? If not is Pageau (NYI) or Bjugstad (ARI) available for trade? They are probably the only 2 players in the top 20 in faceoff % won that we could get on the semi cheap (Pageau not so much).

[Jorcus]

My healthy line up in the short term.

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Benson Cozens Peterka 

Quinn Mitts Olaf

The 4th line is a big question. Right now you have too many left wingers and not enough right, when healthy. KO is the right side, but he needs to go on the Anderson plan. Rosen is not really a 4th line type at the moment. Your looking at Greenway, Robinson, and Girgensons for the 1 leftwing spot. Maybe Robinson was an elaborate rental plan who ends up right back In Columbus. There could be some other swap for a 4th line right winger trading away one of the lefts. 

I would not break up the Cozens line right now they are going too well and expect scoring more scoring shortly. 

 

 

 

[Crusader1969]

I would like to see an upgrade over VO.  Still think he doesn't do enough to warrant a spot on the top 9 Im putting Greenway with Mitts and Quinn in your scenario 

I've noticed Rosen getting more comfortable and shinning in a few spots.  Keep an eye on him tonight. 
yes VO scored a huge goal but he was nearly the goat the prior shift, had two  opportunities to clear the zone and failed both times 

I'm thinking there is a difference still between the goat and being "The G.O.A.T"?  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Crusader1969

[xzy89c1]

We are so easy to play against. Forecheck aggressively and take away long passes. No physicality outside of Dahlin and sometimes Clifton to worry about. Our forwards do not backcheck so push odd man rushes. If they have puck in sabres zone just keep moving and finding open guys. Our coverage is such that players pop open all the time. Crash the net on every shot as Sabres will not physically keep you out and are usually out of position.

Greenway is really a bad player. 6'5" and he is a perimeter player. needs to spend his time going to net and forechecking physically. He plays like a high skill guy.

Skinner is such a bad player in total. He hurts this team in so many ways. Zero defense, stupid passes and he is never held accountable. Goes out next shift and hangs at red line. What a terrible signing. Gave him NMC, and 9 million while bidding against ourselves.

[mjd1001]

I just today had a chance to look at the 2 goals allowed vs Montreal. Yeah, the forwards are bad on this team...

1st goal allowed:  This goal should have never been scored.  At zone entry, Power takes the puck carrier (yeah, if he was more physical he could have impacted the pass but that isn't the worst thing here). Its basically a 2 on 3. Well, it was a 2 on 3 but Okposo turned it into a 3 on 3.  You can blame this on Johnson or Okposo.  As the puck enters the zone, the 2nd forward (not the puck carrier) is even with Okposo just outside the blue line. But, Okposo is gliding in, the Montreal player is skating hard.  Now Johnson is across the ice on the far side.  Because Okposo lets his guy go, Johnson has to come over to cover him, but since he is coming from so far away, he never gets there in time to stop the tip and the goal.  Could Johnson have gotten there quicker if he sprinted to the guy? Maybe, but there was another forward on the far side of the ice that was uncovered. Johnson I think wanted to stay with the guy close to him, but once he saw Okposo get left in the dust he then had to cover the center of the ice and didn't have time to get there.

2nd goal was when the Sabres were Shorthanded but look at the replay. I want Levi to make that save, but Okposo and Krebs...I'm sitting both of them for the effort defending on zone entry. Krebs doesn't do much, when he finally reacts to the puck carrier/goal scorer going coast-to-coast, he reacts late in the neutral zone and then turns into a defender and basically take himself out of the play. Okposo? He is a pilon out there, standing at the blue line with ZERO chance of stopping anyone crossing the blue line because they will blow right by him.  The skater DOES blow right by him, he waves his stick at him...and Krebs comes in late and does a stick wave also.

As much as Okposo is a veteran, I think he has been here on this bad team for SO LONG that he has forgotten how to position himself defensively or has lost the ability to bear down and hustle to catch up to a play. At least with Zemgus, you get the hustle and fast skating.  You know what? The islanders didn't get good at allowing less goals until a couple years AFTER he left, so Okposo hasn't really ever been with an organization his whole career, Buffalo OR the Islanders..where he played on a team that played sound defensively. Despite us thinking of him as a 'veteran leader', he just might not have an idea how to position himself properly defensively after all.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by mjd1001

[TheAud]

31 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As much as Okposo is a veteran, I think he has been here on this bad team for SO LONG that he has forgotten how to position himself defensively or has lost the ability to bear down and hustle to catch up to a play. At least with Zemgus, you get the hustle and fast skating.  You know what? The islanders didn't get good at allowing less goals until a couple years AFTER he left, so Okposo hasn't really ever been with an organization his whole career, Buffalo OR the Islanders..where he played on a team that played sound defensively. Despite us thinking of him as a 'veteran leader', he just might not have an idea how to position himself properly defensively after all.

 

And yet, despite being the worst forward on the team (I'm excluding fringe guys like Robinson), Granato will never sit Okposo. 

[French Collection]

52 minutes ago, TheAud said:

And yet, despite being the worst forward on the team (I'm excluding fringe guys like Robinson), Granato will never sit Okposo. 

Plus he gets PP and PK time tacked on.

He should be a 4th liner and load managed at that.

[Norcal]

I donno where this goes?

Many have written him off.

It seems his ink is not dry just yet.

Might be after this spurt since I'm not sure his legs can keep up with this pace. 

 

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I donno where this goes?

Many have written him off.

It seems his ink is not dry just yet.

Might be after this spurt since I'm not sure his legs can keep up with this pace. 

 

The fans have been calling him done for at least 4 seasons now.  He’s done like the Bruins have been done for countless seasons.  Believe it when it happens.

[Norcal]

Just now, Weave said:

The fans have been calling him done for at least 4 seasons now.  He’s done like the Bruins have been done for countless seasons.  Believe it when it happens.

You and me both