GDT Red Wings @ Sabres Tuesday Dec 5th 7:30 pm ET ESPN+ / HULU

[JustOneParade]

12 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I'd add that his postgame presser "word salad" gibberish sounds more Kreuger-like with each game.  Just a bunch of empty words and he never admits any personal responsibility for the team's performance.  What doesn't help are the constant "softballs" that he gets from the Buffalo media.

This is interesting. For the most of DG's tenure I found his pressers to be direct and to the point. Now? Not so much. 'Word salad' is the product of having no answers. That's scary. He's the Head Coach.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Well, that sucked.  Again.

[Believer]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

No one promised anything 

Wrong usage… Promise, as in expectation… It’s why they got big money early… Expectation… 

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Correct -- Roku is a far superior product to Fire TV.

 

Speaking of, I still pay for spectrum but it's really a rip off. I was debating making a separate thread, but finding a streaming service that covers all bills/sabres games would be nice so I can cancel my expensive garbage cable 

[inkman]

14 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I'd add that his postgame presser "word salad" gibberish sounds more Kreuger-like with each game.  Just a bunch of empty words and he never admits any personal responsibility for the team's performance.  What doesn't help are the constant "softballs" that he gets from the Buffalo media.

I’m sure you are looking for some fire and brimstone scorched earth kinda presser but that’s not Meatballs.  I think the whole concept is moronic.  Let’s stick a microphone in front of a guy who just had his worse day of work in his life.  Oh and he’s coming off a dozen or so just like it.  What does anyone expect these guys to say?  
 

If they did that to me, they’d have to immediately discontinue the pressers indefinitely because everyone of them would be filled with expletives without much coherent thought.  
 

What do people expect these guys to say?  Furthermore, how can you be bothered to care.  They just say whatever cliche crap that the fans expect.  Is it really important to the fans to hear this crap?  Does it matter in anyone’s day to day life?  
 

Look at McDermott’s press conferences.  The epitome of sports cliches.  Never says anything. Why do fans cling to these like they mean something?  In the corporate world, these meetings get cancelled because they don’t hold any value.  

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I don’t think you get anyone they need in return for prospects.  Isn’t the problem with the current players.  Identify which and clean house.  They need to fix it now.  

Sure, but who wants or bottom 6 players?  Probably no one.  The players we want to give up have almost ZERO value.  

Our bottom 6 or 8 players to improve upon (starting with the worst??):

• Bryson, VO, KO, Jost, Comrie, Joker, Clifton, Girgs

Players leaving after the year anyway:

• KO, Jost, Girgs, EJ (Probably?) 

Players to rehabilitate with coaching and training:

• Power, Cozens, Samuelsson

Players to reconsider and move from if possible:

• Skinner, Krebs, Samuelsson, Greenway

Top Tradable Assets that could bring in experienced NHL players: 

• Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, 2024 first rounder - we need to turn some of this list into good NHL players today, not in 3-4 years.  

Core Players to hold:  Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Mitts, Tuch

Next Tier Core to hold:  Benson, Quinn, JJP, Power, Levi, R Johnson, UPL

Some players are on multiple lists.   

My most radical stance is with Power and Muel.   Both are removed from core.  Power remains on next tier core.  We need to fix this kid.  It is clear we gave him to much too soon.  Too much ice, too much responsibility, and too much in the next contract.  He needs better coaching and a better partner.  For now think Power should get 3rd pair work with EJ - keep him under 18 minutes if playing 6 defenders. 

Muel is a turnover machine that plays a lot of minutes.  His bad play, plus Powers bad play is killing us.  What is disappointing is he does not stabilize Power or R Johnson.   We could not get a player like Chychrun, or Orlov, or Pesce - that is the level we need Muel to play at, especially with Power in a sophomore slump, or we will have to move on from him in another year.  

I put Levi and UPL in the Next Tier Core because we have nothing else.  

We have tons of talent and a lot of pieces to use to improve this team.  Steve Y could easily fix this.  Can Adams?   

Edited December 6, 2023 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

My daughter was visiting tonight so I just finished watching this on replay long after I imagine most of you Buffalonians had already gone to bed. I browsed the thread here and I am laughing at some of the picky things some of you are arguing over, as if they'd make a difference. Some of you think this was a comeback attempt as well, but I saw it more as a case of the Sabres lulling them to sleep as it came so damn easy in the first half of the game. They barely had to break a sweat to go up 4-0 and then they just coasted until they tried to wake up at the end in an "oh crap" kind of way. 

Sabres are garbage. Just pure and utter garbage through and through. Getting worse, not better. 

Very interesting and telling stat they put up - Sabres are the bottom of the league in shots with net front presence.  Sure enough, 6 on 4 at the end with a desperation situation and still almost no net front presence. Says it all right there. You watch other teams and they are hacking and whacking at the goalies trying everything in that situation and there we are skating around the perimeter. At one point we had 4 forwards all on the same side of the ice and they still kept it on the perimeter. Just insanely bad and SOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lastly, I don't care where he was drafted, but Owen Power should be in Rochester and on a massive strength and weight program. He has a big frame but he is a child. He is knocked off the puck easily and he cannot move anyone in front. He is, at times, completely useless and a total liability. He should not have been given the contract he was given. He MAY be good one day, he MAY be great even, but right now he is garbage. 

Listening to Granato in his bench interview he is either clueless or a liar. More likely the latter, but possibly the former. 

Season's over. 

We are 9 points behind Detroit and they have 2 games in hand. 

They are a much better team.  Great mix of youth and vets, not old burned out guys, but vets with experience, hockey strength, and know-how.   

Last year they added some experienced players, this year they added a few more.  Several of the players they have recently added have won Cups (Perron, Fabbri, Compher come to mind).  You don't see them adding 3 rookies a year, which the Sabres did again this year, and they appear to be ready to do again next year.  

Meanwhile Montreal has past us (3 points ahead) , Philly has past us (6 points ahead), and Ottawa won 2 in a row and is coming fast with 6 games in hand they will likely pass us by the New Year. 

A draft lottery ticket is looking probable.  

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

If they did that to me, they’d have to immediately discontinue the pressers indefinitely because everyone of them would be filled with expletives without much coherent thought.  

To be honest I would like to see this.  I would like to get the sense that they actually do care.  The way he has his team coming out to start hockey games, particularly when they've had such a rough stretch, seriously has me wondering if he does care or what the hell is going on here.

[inkman]

40 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sure, but who wants or bottom 6 players?  Probably no one.  The players we want to give up have almost ZERO value.  

Our bottom 6 or 8 players to improve upon (starting with the worst??):

• Bryson, VO, KO, Jost, Comrie, Joker, Clifton, Girgs

Players leaving after the year anyway:

• KO, Jost, Girgs, EJ (Probably?) 

Players to rehabilitate with coaching and training:

• Power, Cozens, Samuelsson

Players to reconsider and move from if possible:

• Skinner, Krebs, Samuelsson, Greenway

Top Tradable Assets that could bring in experienced NHL players: 

• Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, 2024 first rounder - we need to turn some of this list into good NHL players today, not in 3-4 years.  

Core Players to hold:  Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Mitts, Tuch

Next Tier Core to hold:  Benson, Quinn, JJP, Power, Levi, R Johnson, UPL

Some players are on multiple lists.   

My most radical stance is with Power and Muel.   Both are removed from core.  Power remains on next tier core.  We need to fix this kid.  It is clear we gave him to much too soon.  Too much ice, too much responsibility, and too much in the next contract.  He needs better coaching and a better partner.  For now think Power should get 3rd pair work with EJ - keep him under 18 minutes if playing 6 defenders. 

Muel is a turnover machine that plays a lot of minutes.  His bad play, plus Powers bad play is killing us.  What is disappointing is he does not stabilize Power or R Johnson.   We could not get a player like Chychrun, or Orlov, or Pesce - that is the level we need Muel to play at, especially with Power in a sophomore slump, or we will have to move on from him in another year.  

I put Levi and UPL in the Next Tier Core because we have nothing else.  

We have tons of talent and a lot of pieces to use to improve this team.  Steve Y could easily fix this.  Can Adams?   

Tage and Tuch are the only players I care about keeping.  Even then, for the right offer, I’d move those guys too.  The ship is sinking.  Time to figure out who can swim. 

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

Tage and Tuch are the only players I care about keeping.  Even then, for the right offer, I’d move those guys too.  The ship is sinking.  Time to figure out who can swim. 

Dahlin is the best player on the team.  Tage and Tuch are a full step behind him. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Speaking of, I still pay for spectrum but it's really a rip off. I was debating making a separate thread, but finding a streaming service that covers all bills/sabres games would be nice so I can cancel my expensive garbage cable 

I've looked into that some... You're in the home market, right?  You can subscribe to MSG without a cable plan these days, right?  One of the alternatives I've been looking at does the same thing with the Bally Sports app (for Stars-Sabres, plus I follow the Texas Rangers).  I'll have to pull up my list to see what other plans I am looking at. 

I almost dumped Spectrum when they had their Disney spat and dropped ESPN for a while, but I had some business trips and decided not to at the point.  I did some research and figured out that no matter what I need a "general carrier" subscription- Spectrum, DirecTV, Hulu + Live TV, etc., if I want things like TNT and ESPN (not +) to watch games.  Then there's ESPN+, plus any other specialty or premium channels you want.

I might change over during the holiday break.  I'll try to find my spreadsheet that compared for stuff I cared about.

[inkman]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Dahlin is the best player on the team.  Tage and Tuch are a full step behind him. 

Sure.  I still don’t like him.  

[Pimlach]

Just now, inkman said:

Sure.  I still don’t like him.  

[inkman]

Just now, Pimlach said:

If I’m in create a player mode in EA sports NHL pick a year, my franchise Dman is going to be Chris Pronger or Shea Weber, not Mr Dancy Pants.  

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

I know this is a joke but in 101% seriousness we absolutely, positively, should not draft a player with our first. Imagine thinking ANOTHER 18 year old kid is what we need to fix this mess. We have a surplus, and drastic imbalance overall. Trade it. 

idk, it depends. I used to follow the draft but I've quit this year because I'm tired of that being our concern so I don't know much about Celebrini. My point would be if this guy is a character guy, if he has the drive that Benson seems to show maybe we are better off getting him BUT, and it's a big but, only if we trade away some of what we already have in terms of prospects and start creating a more balanced roster. 

So in other words, I'm with you 100% on the surplus and imbalance, just not sure who, or which ones are the ones to keep and the ones to not keep. I'm really not crazy about most of the guys we have waiting in the wings. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

We are 9 points behind Detroit and they have 2 games in hand. 

They are a much better team.  Great mix of youth and vets, not old burned out guys, but vets with experience, hockey strength, and know-how.   

Last year they added some experienced players, this year they added a few more.  Several of the players they have recently added have won Cups (Perron, Fabbri, Compher come to mind).  You don't see them adding 3 rookies a year, which the Sabres did again this year, and they appear to be ready to do again next year.  

Meanwhile Montreal has past us (3 points ahead) , Philly has past us (6 points ahead), and Ottawa won 2 in a row and is coming fast with 6 games in hand they will likely pass us by the New Year. 

A draft lottery ticket is looking probable.  

Totally agree. This is why I haven't been looking at points at all but only points percentage. All those games in hand shake things out in points producing ways. Lots of loser points out there as well. If you look at points percentage only Columbus is below us in the conference. That's our actual standing. Next to last. Next to last in goal differential as well. 

That stat from the game though (although it wasn't a surprise) really told the tale though. Dead last in the league (even worse than San Jose) in terms of shots with net front presence. The eye test told me, yup, that figures, but seeing it as an actual stat just drove it home hard. You won't win hockey games without guys in front, you just won't. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I've looked into that some... You're in the home market, right?  You can subscribe to MSG without a cable plan these days, right?  One of the alternatives I've been looking at does the same thing with the Bally Sports app (for Stars-Sabres, plus I follow the Texas Rangers).  I'll have to pull up my list to see what other plans I am looking at. 

I almost dumped Spectrum when they had their Disney spat and dropped ESPN for a while, but I had some business trips and decided not to at the point.  I did some research and figured out that no matter what I need a "general carrier" subscription- Spectrum, DirecTV, Hulu + Live TV, etc., if I want things like TNT and ESPN (not +) to watch games.  Then there's ESPN+, plus any other specialty or premium channels you want.

I might change over during the holiday break.  I'll try to find my spreadsheet that compared for stuff I cared about.

Being in the home market is a blessing and a curse. I've heard maybe fubo or something like that can get me most of the stuff I want at a much nicer price. I have espn + bundle for the random other games. I just don't know how that affects the bills and etc as well. 

[thewookie1]

Power is truly in a sophomore slump and it can be seen from his paralysis through analysis.

As a rookie he played free and loose, this year he looks rigid and tied up. The issue being that it’s hard to say if he needs less time or continued time to work himself out of it. In some ways I think his contract made him more aware of his importance and thus he’s overthinking basic things because they won’t “cut it” for a 8mil salary man.

 

Cozens will eventually break through, he’s getting chances galore and must have seriously angered the hockey gods based on his luck. 

[PerreaultForever]

50 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Power is truly in a sophomore slump and it can be seen from his paralysis through analysis.

As a rookie he played free and loose, this year he looks rigid and tied up. The issue being that it’s hard to say if he needs less time or continued time to work himself out of it. In some ways I think his contract made him more aware of his importance and thus he’s overthinking basic things because they won’t “cut it” for a 8mil salary man.

 

Cozens will eventually break through, he’s getting chances galore and must have seriously angered the hockey gods based on his luck. 

imo it's not just a slump, he's (comparatively) weak. He needs weight and muscle. Strength training. He's fine in open ice but he is completely incapable of doing anything around the net if opponents assert their physicality. He also is incapable of forcing a player outside if said player uses his body to shield the puck. idk what he did in the off season, but he should have been adding muscle instead. He's a boy in a man's game right now. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

I feel like nearly every pass I saw in the first period (did not really watch the second period) from the Sabres that went more than 20 feet was a bad pass. Either off the mark or right into a cluster of Wings around some poor unsuspecting (unaware?) Sabres forward. Maybe a combo of the aforementioned subpar D-men and the Wings savvy vets reading the passes like some of those old school golden books, but the ones aimed at the real young kids.

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

idk, it depends. I used to follow the draft but I've quit this year because I'm tired of that being our concern so I don't know much about Celebrini. My point would be if this guy is a character guy, if he has the drive that Benson seems to show maybe we are better off getting him BUT, and it's a big but, only if we trade away some of what we already have in terms of prospects and start creating a more balanced roster. 

So in other words, I'm with you 100% on the surplus and imbalance, just not sure who, or which ones are the ones to keep and the ones to not keep. I'm really not crazy about most of the guys we have waiting in the wings. 

 

Sure - I’d be good with that too. I just left it out cause people *frequently* use that argument when no actual, immediate deal follows. It couldn’t be a period of “evaluation” after where we spend a year deciding. It would need to be an immediate corresponding swap

[Taro T]

Didn't read the thread, so if somebody already said this, apologies.

The only silver lining to Tuesday's game is that there were only 9-10k in the building (announced crowd was 14k, but there's no way they were nearly 3/4 full.  The top 6-8 rows of the 300's were packed (probably doing the $20 tix thing) but the rest of the barn was mainly 1/2 full with some prime areas only 1/4 full.)  And it was an ESPN+ game only so there were relatively a very few that got the privilege of watching the debacle that was the 1st 45 minutes of that game.

Soooo frustrating to watch.