In December and your team is failing - Adams Do Something Substantive Already!

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You rely on stats. I rely on what I see. 

May I suggest getting a new pair of glasses?

While the stats never tell the whole story, given a 25 game sample size, the trends are pretty clear.  The Sabres goaltending remains below average again this season.  

The Sabres are 27th in GA.  The are 24th in GA/gp at 3.40.  The Sabres have allowed 4 or more goals 12 of 25 games.  Their record is 2-9-1 in those games.  They have allowed 2 or less in only 9 games.  The record in those games is 8-1.  (We are 0-3-1 in games where we allow 3 goals).

Comrie and Levi have given us only three (3) .900 or better save % starts. Overall the team has only 10 starts where the goaltenders gave us a .900 or better save %.  Is it any wonder we only have 10 wins? 10 .900 games of 25 is below average or worse goaltending. 

UPL has been decent this season.  He has given us .900 or better save % in 7 of 12 starts, but he has also given us 2 games with a save % in the 700s.  Furthermore, UPL gave us a similar run last year in his first 20 games and then the wheels came off.  I'm not ready to anoint him the savior in the net when he isn't consistent and has gone into the tank after a similar start last year.

By the way, UPL's save% in his first 20 starts last year was .900 and it's .903 through his first 12 starts this season (.905 if you include his 1 relief appearance).  

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Marvin]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s been below average 

hang a banner 

Not far from average. Hang a banner 

man are expectations ever disgustingly low

Only in f*cking Buffalo is “below average” “pretty decent”. 

I did not say that the goaltending is decent.  I said that the league is regressing towards where Buffalo is and that now the Sabres are not far from average.

BFD.  Hooray.  Yippee.

If we were scoring like last year, maybe I would look at it with a less jaundiced eye.  Nah; as my uname indicates, that's not me.  This is how many years running that goalkeeping has been subpar?  I am desperate enough to see what Robin Lehner is doing, for Pete's sake.  (Love is understanding / You know that this is true / Love is understanding / It's in ev'ry thing we do...)

I am sick and tired of the team deflating after a bad goal.  I am fed up with the continuing mental breakdowns in our defencive zone --particularly among the forwards.  I am frustrated that I fall asleep to yet another loss with my long COVID.  In the 1970's, I fell asleep to a lot of wins.  Boy, do I miss that.

The rest of the league is mediocre enough that if GMKA put a little more stock in "now", we could ascend pretty fast.  Otherwise, the guys have to be thinking in the back of their heads that it is another wasted year.  Once that happens, it will be plunge-arama down the league standings rather than a gradual slide.

[Radar]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Looking back, the season was lost before it even began by Adams 

1) should have brought in a vet goalkeeper to pair with either Levi / UPL

2) should have found a replacement for Quinn in the off-season

3) should have filled the spots on the 4th line by signing the best available physical forecheckers available in UFA market.  Would have been great to get someone who they could rely on to win a faceoff too.  Hathaway was a UFA that he could have signed as an example 

4) KO could have been signed as the 13th forward not regular 

Adams , like a lot of us, were blinded by last seasons results.   I can openly admit I was wrong about this team   I hope that Adams can admit it as well and make necessary changes today! 

Agree with your assessment. Nothing wrong about being wrong but it's important to admit when you are. So far I've been wrong as well as they haven't played up to my expectations.

[Weave]

46 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s been below average 

hang a banner 

Not far from average. Hang a banner 

man are expectations ever disgustingly low

Only in f*cking Buffalo is “below average” “pretty decent”. 

The team’s messaging has been getting through.TP is the antichrist.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Weave

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

May I suggest getting a new pair of glasses?

While the stats never tell the whole story, given a 25 game sample size, the trends are pretty clear.  The Sabres goaltending remains below average again this season.  

The Sabres are 27th in GA.  The are 24th in GA/gp at 3.40.  The Sabres have allowed 4 or more goals 12 of 25 games.  Their record is 2-9-1 in those games.  They have allowed 2 or less in only 9 games.  The record in those games is 8-1.  (We are 0-3-1 in games where we allow 3 goals).

Comrie and Levi have given us only three (3) .900 or better save % starts. Overall the team has only 10 starts where the goaltenders gave us a .900 or better save %.  Is it any wonder we only have 10 wins? 10 .900 games of 25 is below average or worse goaltending. 

UPL has been decent this season.  He has given us .900 or better save % in 7 of 12 starts, but he has also given us 2 games with a save % in the 700s.  Furthermore, UPL gave us a similar run last year in his first 20 games and then the wheels came off.  I'm not ready to anoint him the savior in the net when he isn't consistent and has gone into the tank after a similar start last year.

 

 

We can go round and round. Let's just leave it as we don't agree. You're married to stats. I watch every single game. I know how the Sabres are playing in front of their goal. You see a .700 sv%. I see a failure to hold the point resulting in a odd man rush, followed by a turnover under pressure in our end with an opponent parked by the crease unchecked, followed by lost face off with a shot tipped in because our D aren't moving players screening the goalie, etc. etc.

Edited December 4, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

Good teams have those same guys in the AHL and leave them there to marinate. We rush them in because we have no alternative.

No, they do not. No one on the freaking planet would leave a guy that is 21 and a former first round pick (top 10 btw) in the AHL after they put up 1.35ppg including 25g in 45 games especially in the cap era. Buffalo got 37pts including 14g and a very solid 2-way game from Jack Quinn. He wasn't rushed, he came up precisely when he should have and he stayed because he was good. Look at Peterka, almost the same thing and because he played last year he is currently in his sophomore season and doing extremely well. The guy had just under 1pgg in the AHL and put up 32pts last year and his currently at 18pts and 10g this year. What part of him was rushed? 

Focus on actual problems, this wasn't one of them. All good teams bring up their youth when they are ready and in the NHL that typically happens between the ages of 20-23. Saying that Jack Quinn or JJ Peterka were rushed out of the AHL is complete nonsense. 

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We can go round and round. Let's just leave it as we don't agree. You're married to stats. I watch every single game. I know how the Sabres are playing in front of their goal. You see a .700 sv%. I see a failure to hold the point resulting in a odd man rush, followed by a turnover under pressure in our end with an opponent parked by the crease unchecked, followed by lost face off with a shot tipped in because our D aren't moving players screening the goalie, etc. etc.

Professional goalies make those saves sometimes, when will Buffalo have a goalie that will? 

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I did not say that the goaltending is decent.  I said that the league is regressing towards where Buffalo is and that now the Sabres are not far from average.

BFD.  Hooray.  Yippee.

If we were scoring like last year, maybe I would look at it with a less jaundiced eye.  Nah; as my uname indicates, that's not me.  This is how many years running that goalkeeping has been subpar?  I am desperate enough to see what Robin Lehner is doing, for Pete's sake.  (Love is understanding / You know that this is true / Love is understanding / It's in ev'ry thing we do...)

I am sick and tired of the team deflating after a bad goal.  I am fed up with the continuing mental breakdowns in our defencive zone --particularly among the forwards.  I am frustrated that I fall asleep to yet another loss with my long COVID.  In the 1970's, I fell asleep to a lot of wins.  Boy, do I miss that.

The rest of the league is mediocre enough that if GMKA put a little more stock in "now", we could ascend pretty fast.  Otherwise, the guys have to be thinking in the back of their heads that it is another wasted year.  Once that happens, it will be plunge-arama down the league standings rather than a gradual slide.

I know you didn’t, the last sentence was quoting the other post I quoted in the same post 

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, Pimlach said:

They were but they handed it with sheltering. Rosen and Kulich are not as ready, they are younger.
 

 

Rosen is the same age JJP was when he made the NHL. However yes, neither Rosen nor Kulich are NHL ready and should marinate in the AHL which they have been doing for basically the entire season to date. 

I would give both Rosen and Kulich a full year in the AHL (which so far seems to be the plan barring the injury hellscape we live in). 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Even last year, this team had the same problems. Heavy forecheck shuts us down and our players fold like a cheap deck of cards. We have a lot of talent, but we need a player or two that is not just big, but plays heavy. Our big guys just do not do that. If all our players are going to panic when they are forechecked then that is a coaching problem. Talent also does little when the opposing team is backchecking heavy. When you have talented players that are afraid of the front of the net, you get what we have now.

One of the biggest good things from last year was our PP. That is a total disaster. Even before the injuries.

UPL, is a serviceable 1A, but we do not have a 1B. We are more on the 1c or D. Also take into account that this teams defensive posture is most likely the worst i have ever seen on a NHL team. They are a bunch of stick checking fools that won't take the body  but once in miracle. It is easy to play around our defense as we never pressure the points so it is easy for teams to keep us hemmed in our own end. If the wings pressured the dmen it would also open some actual breakaways.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jack Quinn or JJ Peterka

Those are the two prospects that weren't rushed.  Mitts, Levi, even Cozens and Benson, you can make an argument that they were rushed to the NHL. However, JJP and Quinn dominated the AHL, especially given their ages, and then acquitted themselves very well as rookies in the NHL.  They were ready.  On the hand, Rosen and Kulich are proving they aren't ready.  Kulich was sent down and Rosen will follow when we get a healthy body or two back.

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Professional goalies make those saves sometimes, when will Buffalo have a goalie that will? 

A fair question. Don't you miss Ullmark level goaltending?  🙂

[Pimlach]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is the same age JJP was when he made the NHL. However yes, neither Rosen nor Kulich are NHL ready and should marinate in the AHL which they have been doing for basically the entire season to date. 

I would give both Rosen and Kulich a full year in the AHL (which so far seems to be the plan barring the injury hellscape we live in). 

It sure seems like bringing in 2-3 rookies a year is going to eventually catch up with us, and it probably has this season. 

Recent Rookie Consumption:  

21-22  -- Cozens, Samuelsson, Krebs

22-23 -- Power, Quinn, Peterka, UPL

23-24 -- Benson, R Johnson, (Attempted Levi )

24-25 -- Possible Levi, Kulich, Rosen, Savoie

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It sure seems like bringing in 2-3 rookies a year is going to eventually catch up with us, and it probably has this season. 

Recent Rookie Consumption:  

21-22  -- Cozens, Samuelsson, Krebs

22-23 -- Power, Quinn, Peterka, UPL

23-24 -- Benson, R Johnson, (Attempted Levi )

24-25 -- Possible Levi, Kulich, Rosen, Savoie

Omg, you guys are all out to lunch. Cozens was not a rookie in 2021 as he had played 41 games in 2020. Samuelsson was but he split the year between Buffalo and Rochester in 2021. Krebs kinda split the season but I can see saying he was a rookie in 21/22. Either way we did not do what you say that year. 

Let's look at 2022... Well which one of Power, Peterka and Quinn do you feel like played bad? UPL did but which of the other 3 do you have a problem with or would have left at a lower level? 

Ryan Johnson is 22yrs old, you either have to see if he sinks or swims at the NHL level sooner rather than later. Benson I would have sent back to jrs but he is a unicorn and shockingly might be the best play driver on the entire freaking team. 

Nothing caught up to us this year. We are not losing games because Zach Benson and Ryan Johnson are here. We are losing because we play a trash brand of hockey with almost no one going to the middle of the ice and no one playing hard. Scapegoat elsewhere. 

In 2024 I wouldn't bring in any of those players. Make them all start in Rochester. 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Those are the two prospects that weren't rushed.  Mitts, Levi, even Cozens and Benson, you can make an argument that they were rushed to the NHL. However, JJP and Quinn dominated the AHL, especially given their ages, and then acquitted themselves very well as rookies in the NHL.  They were ready.  On the hand, Rosen and Kulich are proving they aren't ready.  Kulich was sent down and Rosen will follow when we get a healthy body or two back.

A fair question. Don't you miss Ullmark level goaltending?  🙂

No you can't. One, Levi isn't here anymore. Two, Benson as I have pointed out elsewhere is actually good. Three, Mitts has been good for years according to you so now that you want to make a different argument Mitts was rushed? Cozens had how many points last year? For a guy that was rushed he sure played pretty ***** well. 

Ullmark was a UFA. Idk why no one seems to give a ***** about that. Would you sign here as a UFA goalie?

My problem isn't that we are saying Adams failed, he did. Or that goaltending is bad, it is. Or that we can't rush Rosen and Kulich, we won't. It is that we are using all of these stupid lame worthless excuses to scapegoat the cold hard truth. This team simply isn't coached well enough, it doesn't have enough depth, and it certainly doesn't have enough heart. This message can be repeatedly from 2013 to present. 

Liger, out. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Professional goalies make those saves sometimes, when will Buffalo have a goalie that will? 

That's the key word isn't it. To me sometimes is 10-12 times a game, max. To you sometimes is 20-30 times a game. If your goalie has to bail your team out more than 20 times a game, that's a clue that your problem isn't goaltending.

Edited December 4, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[Warriorspikes51]

This season is already over.   Pathetic. 

No real effort to add a quality top 6 player, actual bottom 6 players, a quality top 4 D and Veteran Goalie.
 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Omg, you guys are all out to lunch. Cozens was not a rookie in 2021 as he had played 41 games in 2020. Samuelsson was but he split the year between Buffalo and Rochester in 2021. Krebs kinda split the season but I can see saying he was a rookie in 21/22. Either way we did not do what you say that year. 

Let's look at 2022... Well which one of Power, Peterka and Quinn do you feel like played bad? UPL did but which of the other 3 do you have a problem with or would have left at a lower level? 

Ryan Johnson is 22yrs old, you either have to see if he sinks or swims at the NHL level sooner rather than later. Benson I would have sent back to jrs but he is a unicorn and shockingly might be the best play driver on the entire freaking team. 

Nothing caught up to us this year. We are not losing games because Zach Benson and Ryan Johnson are here. We are losing because we play a trash brand of hockey with almost no one going to the middle of the ice and no one playing hard. Scapegoat elsewhere. 

In 2024 I wouldn't bring in any of those players. Make them all start in Rochester. 

You missing the point, you're way deep in the weeds, pull up a bit. 

Cozens was essentially a rookie in 2021 because his real rookie season was the Covid year, but Ok, I stand corrected.   Samuelsson was, Krebs was.  

2022 we had Power, Quinn, Peterka, UPL .  UPL struggled the other 3 were fine.  Power is not fine right now though, is he.  

2023 the fact that Benson is top 6 speak volumes for the problems we have at forward.  Injuries aside, Benson in the top 9, ok we found a unicorn, maybe.   I personally would have sent him back to Jrs right after camp, AKA, the the long extended day care of Kevyn Adams pet prospects.   

R Johnson at 22 had as little time in Rochester as possible.  Lets see how he holds up, but the last week or so he is showing signs of stress and has been targeted by opposing forwards.  It will get harder for him, just like it is for Power, and it was for Dahlin.  

Levi - how did that work, give him the #1 after 7 games.    

Nothing caught up to us this year?   Everything caught up to us this year.

1.  Age - We are younger than last season and that was young enough.   So we bring in 3 more rookies and then are forced to bring in more rookies due to injuries.  The games are Men vs Boys every night.  I was fearful that Benson, Rosen, and Johnson were going to get destroyed against the Canes and the Preds.  

2.  Style - We still play the same game as last season, the notion that they are "installing defense" into the system is garbage.  Whatever they gained from that they lost more of on the scoring side, you see that in the GF and GA stats.  The players watch the game, they are thinking, and they are taking a pounding.  Every coach in the league knows exactly what to do to slow us down, stop our PP, and wear us down.   

We fall behind and we lose because they cannot beat a neutral zone trap.  We get a lead and we can't finish it because we don't back check and break out cleanly.  We play a heavy team and we get slowed down and we get limited.   Yes - in every aspect of the game the teams in the league have caught up to us.  

3 - Injuries are forcing us replace solid players with even more rookies

4 - Finally, six guys coming off of career seasons and are not on any kind of pace to duplicate it back to back  (Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Dahlin, Cozens, Mitts). 

Everything caught up to us.  No one is looking past us.  

This season has 3 bright spots in terms of players performing.  Benson, Peterka, and so far UPL.  Benson being there only magnifies how weak we really are.  

My main point was that we cannot keep absorbing rookies next season so I am at least happy to hear you agree with that.  

Other than Cozens, everyone I listed is correct.  In three seasons we have added 8 rookies, not counting Levi or the temporary call ups.  

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Pimlach

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No, they do not. No one on the freaking planet would leave a guy that is 21 and a former first round pick (top 10 btw) in the AHL after they put up 1.35ppg including 25g in 45 games especially in the cap era. Buffalo got 37pts including 14g and a very solid 2-way game from Jack Quinn. He wasn't rushed, he came up precisely when he should have and he stayed because he was good. Look at Peterka, almost the same thing and because he played last year he is currently in his sophomore season and doing extremely well. The guy had just under 1pgg in the AHL and put up 32pts last year and his currently at 18pts and 10g this year. What part of him was rushed? 

Focus on actual problems, this wasn't one of them. All good teams bring up their youth when they are ready and in the NHL that typically happens between the ages of 20-23. Saying that Jack Quinn or JJ Peterka were rushed out of the AHL is complete nonsense. 

Professional goalies make those saves sometimes, when will Buffalo have a goalie that will? 

And we missed the playoffs.

[JohninMinn.]

Only thing that can save this team is massive testosterone injections. They don't need coaching.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Benson I would have sent back to jrs but he is a unicorn and shockingly might be the best play driver on the entire freaking team. 

I find it fascinating (and incredibly sad) that this small 18 year old kid is one of the few Sabres who will bear down and drive the net. I suppose he hasn't learned yet that as a Sabre nobody makes you do that hard work, you can sit back and relax, but for the moment, he demonstrates clearly how soft and weak (and perhaps lazy) the team is. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Jeez what a terrible thread.  The bickering Bills had nothing on the bickering SabreSpacers.

When is the holiday truce?

 

[thewookie1]

Trade a 4th that can become a 3rd for Duclair.

Move Benson into Tuch's role for the puck hounding and Duclair into Benson's spot

Peterka - Cozens - Duclair  SPEED KILLS

[SABRES 0311]

39 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

Only thing that can save this team is massive testosterone injections. They don't need coaching.

 

[pi2000]

No outside player or package of players is going to fix this team's ailments.

There's already a core group in the locker room. 

Nothing will change until the core decides to enforce a standard of play and hold everyone accountable.   

That simply hasn't happened yet, and in my experience as a player, I don't think it will change until guys like KO and Zemgus are gone.

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

No outside player or package of players is going to fix this team's ailments.

There's already a core group in the locker room. 

Nothing will change until the core decides to enforce a standard of play and hold everyone accountable.   

That simply hasn't happened yet, and in my experience as a player, I don't think it will change until guys like KO and Zemgus are gone.

I think you are correct. 

It has to come from Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Cozens and Mitts.  Its their team. 

I want to replace the lesser vets (KO, Z, Jost, VO)  with NHL ready players that fill needs that balance the team.  Balance mean add some solid 2 way players that are ready now.  

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I think you are correct. 

It has to come from Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Cozens and Mitts.  Its their team. 

I want to replace the lesser vets (KO, Z, Jost, VO)  with NHL ready players that fill needs that balance the team.  Balance mean add some solid 2 way players that are ready now.  

 

 

2 scoring lines, 1 heavier checking line (if they can play 2 way all the better) and a character/energy line made up of defensively responsible players that like to play heavy. That's the age old formula and it still holds. Teams that falter are always missing one or more of these ingredients.