So now what?

[Thorner]

The dynamic duo

[Indabuff]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The dynamic duo

"I'll take a large pizza..."

[Weave]

The dog looks about as interested as the fanbase.

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Who are the 6?  
 

If we have 6 regular skaters who would be incapable of playing on a playoff team, then no amount of coaching adjustments will save us. 

Take your pick on any given gameday -  Okposo, Krebs, Jost, Olofsson, Rosen, Biro ... None of these guys would crack the lineup of a Cup contender.

Krebs and Rosen should be in Rochester, they actually have NHL potential.  Krebs might be ready for the NHL right now if he was developed better, like on a normal team that didn't rush him into playing roles he is not yet suited for.  He should be in the AHL developing his offensive game, which is holding him back in the NHL.  Rosen is not really very close IMO.  So far he looks too timid to shoot or to hit anybody.  

Kyle is done and will retire soon.  Jost is a JAG spare forward.  VO is nothing.  Biro is an AHL player.  Add Bryson to the list while your at it.  That is 7 right there would not smell the locker room of a contending Cup team right now.  

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Take your pick on any given gameday -  Okposo, Krebs, Jost, Olofsson, Rosen, Biro ... None of these guys would crack the lineup of a Cup contender.

Krebs and Rosen should be in Rochester, they actually have NHL potential.  Krebs might be ready for the NHL right now if he was developed better, like on a normal team that didn't rush him into playing roles he is not yet suited for.  He should be in the AHL developing his offensive game, which is holding him back in the NHL.  Rosen is not really very close IMO.  So far he looks too timid to shoot or to hit anybody.  

Kyle is done and will retire soon.  Jost is a JAG spare forward.  VO is nothing.  Biro is an AHL player.  Add Bryson to the list while your at it.  That is 7 right there would not smell the locker room of a contending Cup team right now.  

IMHO, Benson should be in Juniors, so 8 for me.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

56 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The dynamic duo

I'm calling BS.

The cute pooch would be more alert than the other two.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Marvin said:

IMHO, Benson should be in Juniors, so 8 for me.

Probably would of done more harm than good to be honest, not only to the roster but to Benson, himself.

[Warriorspikes51]

Needs:

Top 6 forward
Multiple Bottom 6 forwards
Top 4 D
Veteran Goalie

Will Adams acquire any of them?  NO!!    KEVYN!!!! 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[FrenchConnection44]

Said this in the Montreal thread. But … 

We are surely one of the most poorly coached teams in the NHL in terms of having any defensive structure or offensive plan or consistency. And the victories we get are a product of other teams having an off night and we get fortunate in some wide open shots or the players themselves get frustrated over playing bad the prior couple of games so they come out and hustle for 50-60 minutes and the randomness of the games gives them a W. 

We have some weak spots in talent to be sure. And the goaltending is inconsistent and Levi should be at the AHL level. But if these players were well coached and bought into that coaching, and if the organization as a whole - at every level - had a well organized, cutting edge, and well structured player development system and large training staff that got the absolute best out of each player from a physical and mental development (particularly the off-season) perspective, I think the talent is there to be a much better team. And that is on Pegula. 

Look at organizations like the Braves or Dodgers in baseball (or even Rays or Astros). They have excellent organizational structure, generally large off field staffs even at the MLB level but all the way up and down (as opposed to 2-3 people in player development) (even though the Rays don’t have any money they keep putting out competitive teams), excellent analytic staffs and a great plan for development of each player. We need organizational improvement at most every level. 

Or look at the Bruins. In spite of generally drafting at the end of every round, they have been below .500 3 times since 1968. They have been .600 or better 14 times this century alone. 

The Sabres have been .600 or better 11 times in their history since 1970, and 7 of those were the decade between 1974 & 1984. Since 1984, they’ve been .600 plus 4 times. Between 1972 and 2000 we missed the playoffs only 4 times.  

Pegula has enough money that if he did it right, we could have a solid organization that tracked, assisted, and helped develop every individual drafted player at the AHL, and other minor levels and NHL level. He needs to find someone at the NHL level who knows how to run an organization to be the President of hockey operations and restructure the entire front office and developmental staff and give him the resources to do so. I am not saying fire Adams. He may fit in fine but Pegula needs to decide if he’s going to get things in place to be a consistent winner or not. 

[Pimlach]

Pegula is not spending big money on this team.  If he did, he would most likely continue to hire the wrong people anyway.  He tried spending money, he acted like it was that easy.  He said stupid things publicly.   It isn’t that easy Terry.  Money is not the issue.  
 

NHL Hockey is a fraternity that Terry still does not belong in. He probably knows that.  He blew the first 5 years so fully and completely that he cannot attract the right people to run and lead this team.  

He is hoping that smart young hungry guys, like Boterill or Adams, work out.  That is all he has.  

The Sabres were started by Seymour Knox, a good man and a man of class and sophistication, traits that enabled him to hire Imlach and then Bowman.  He stayed out of Hockey Ops and he let real proven GMs give us credibility within the league.  Terry is much richer and maybe even smarter, but he is not a fit in the hockey world.  He just isn’t.  
 

Sell this team to a viable Buffalo interest.  Take the huge profit while you can Terry.  Please.  
 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

The current situation reminds me a little of the bizarre press conference that Jason Botterill gave shortly after the 10 game winning streak in 2018-19.  The team was still positioned high in the standings and playing reasonably well. Expectations had been raised that the organization would make a move or two to address what were clearly team weaknesses.  Botterill then tamped all that down by stating (and I'm paraphrasing) that while they were happy with what the team had shown to that point, they were not actually that good and there were no plans to do anything aggressive or irresponsible. Expectations were lowered and the team sagged from there.  I'm not saying that Botterill's comments sunk the team's spirit, but I have to believe they did nothing to raise them.

Similarly now,  Adams can't quite seem to get himself to commit to the expectation that the Sabres are supposed to be good.

If not now, then when?  When Kulich, Rosen, Savoie and Östlund are good?  When Levi and UPL are no longer young goalies who, understandably, struggle with consistency? When our top four D (Dahlin, Power, Joker, Sammy) have an average age of 26 to start a season (which won't be until 2027-28; it's true)?

The good news is that Kevyn Adams is a rookie GM. Being patient and thoughtful are not bad traits. He has done some really good things and there is the possibility that he is learning from observation and from mistakes. To his credit, his approach has resulted in the team not being saddled with any disastrous contracts (Cozens and Power are going to be fine). My bet is that they get healthy and play a lot better in the 2nd half of the season and look more like the team that we thought they might be. The young core of players who in April looked ready to take the next step are all still here and ready. Now, we are just waiting for the GM to show he is ready too.

 

[Dr. Who]

14 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

The current situation reminds me a little of the bizarre press conference that Jason Botterill gave shortly after the 10 game winning streak in 2018-19.  The team was still positioned high in the standings and playing reasonably well. Expectations had been raised that the organization would make a move or two to address what were clearly team weaknesses.  Botterill then tamped all that down by stating (and I'm paraphrasing) that while they were happy with what the team had shown to that point, they were not actually that good and there were no plans to do anything aggressive or irresponsible. Expectations were lowered and the team sagged from there.  I'm not saying that Botterill's comments sunk the team's spirit, but I have to believe they did nothing to raise them.

Similarly now,  Adams can't quite seem to get himself to commit to the expectation that the Sabres are supposed to be good.

If not now, then when?  When Kulich, Rosen, Savoie and Östlund are good?  When Levi and UPL are no longer young goalies who, understandably, struggle with consistency? When our top four D (Dahlin, Power, Joker, Sammy) have an average age of 26 to start a season (which won't be until 2027-28; it's true)?

The good news is that Kevyn Adams is a rookie GM. Being patient and thoughtful are not bad traits. He has done some really good things and there is the possibility that he is learning from observation and from mistakes. To his credit, his approach has resulted in the team not being saddled with any disastrous contracts (Cozens and Power are going to be fine). My bet is that they get healthy and play a lot better in the 2nd half of the season and look more like the team that we thought they might be. The young core of players who in April looked ready to take the next step are all still here and ready. Now, we are just waiting for the GM to show he is ready too.

 

Coaching is a concern, isn't it? I'll be happy to see the second half justify the high hopes. Lot of youth on the team, the veterans are not gritty guys with something left in the tank, and the coaching staff continues to leave glaring deficiencies unaddressed. So, I'll be surprised if it happens, but glad if it does.

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

The current situation reminds me a little of the bizarre press conference that Jason Botterill gave shortly after the 10 game winning streak in 2018-19.  The team was still positioned high in the standings and playing reasonably well. Expectations had been raised that the organization would make a move or two to address what were clearly team weaknesses.  Botterill then tamped all that down by stating (and I'm paraphrasing) that while they were happy with what the team had shown to that point, they were not actually that good and there were no plans to do anything aggressive or irresponsible. Expectations were lowered and the team sagged from there.  I'm not saying that Botterill's comments sunk the team's spirit, but I have to believe they did nothing to raise them.

Similarly now,  Adams can't quite seem to get himself to commit to the expectation that the Sabres are supposed to be good.

If not now, then when?  When Kulich, Rosen, Savoie and Östlund are good?  When Levi and UPL are no longer young goalies who, understandably, struggle with consistency? When our top four D (Dahlin, Power, Joker, Sammy) have an average age of 26 to start a season (which won't be until 2027-28; it's true)?

The good news is that Kevyn Adams is a rookie GM. Being patient and thoughtful are not bad traits. He has done some really good things and there is the possibility that he is learning from observation and from mistakes. To his credit, his approach has resulted in the team not being saddled with any disastrous contracts (Cozens and Power are going to be fine). My bet is that they get healthy and play a lot better in the 2nd half of the season and look more like the team that we thought they might be. The young core of players who in April looked ready to take the next step are all still here and ready. Now, we are just waiting for the GM to show he is ready too.

 

Do you think Boterill pulled the plug on improving the team?   I don’t.  

Do you think Adams has been given full throttle to make this team a playoff team?  I don’t. 

The only thing good about Adams being a young first time GM is that he might stay and work in that environment when others won’t.  Boterill left on his own accord, because he had enough help from above, and got a job as an Assistant GM, more commensurate with his abilities at that point.   
 

Like former Sabres players, I am sure former coaches and FO execs have lots interesting stories to share.  

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Coaching is a concern, isn't it? I'll be happy to see the second half justify the high hopes. Lot of youth on the team, the veterans are not gritty guys with something left in the tank, and the coaching staff continues to leave glaring deficiencies unaddressed. So, I'll be surprised if it happens, but glad if it does.

I don’t think we are taking a run at the playoffs like last year. But when Tuch, Greenway and Quinn are back we will be better and will start to look, I think, more like a playoff team. 
 

Maybe a coaching change is what shows Adams has expectations. 
 

I don’t have a specific thing that I want Adams to do. I just think there is a point in a team’s upward trajectory where it’s appropriate for a GM to do something that makes clear the time is now. I’m not looking for a “the rebuild is over” public statement or for a firing or a big trade. I’m just wanting evidence that the plan is not to simply augment the existing young core with even younger players, because if that is the plan then there is no end in sight. 

[mjd1001]

I keep revisiting this thread every 3-5 days, after most games and I'm still in the same place.

This team's primary problem this year is scoring. Why? and how is it fixed?

-Last year they were 7th worst in goals allowed. This year they are 6th worst. About the same, but this DOES appear to be getting better, and the UPL/Levi long term combo seems like it will be better long term. So, defense and goals allowed aren't good, but not much worse than last year with at least room for potential improvement.

Offense.  They were first for good parts of last year, and they finished 3rd in the league in goals. This year they are 24th.  THIS is the problem.  Much of the same roster, same coaching staff, so this is where they are falling short.   So why? and who has to change/improve?

-Its not Skinner, he's on pace for 35.  Tuch? hes on pace for almost 30...the problem is that he is missing games, so maybe games missed is a small issue with him?

-VO and Peterka. They basically are wash from last year. You have 15 goals in 50 games from them this year (combined). Last year you had 40 goals in 152 games combined. This year, you are getting slightly more production per game. So its not really here.

-Cozens.  Here we go.  31 goals last year. This year...4 goals in 26 games (on pace for 12-13) There is issue #1. If December 10th of last year he had 10 goals.  More than double what he has this year.

-Tage. 7 goals in 19 games isn't bad (30 goal pace) but last year by December 10 he had 21 goals.  14 goal shortfall.

And you want to know why the PP is so bad? Those 2 guys had 11 pp goals by this time last year. This year? 2 PP goals between them. This year they are at 14.29%.  If you add those extra 9 goal shortcoming between those 2 guys, you get the PP back to 25%, which is 6th or 7th in the entire league.

So, Tage and Cozens.  20 goals less this year from those 2 guys than they had at this time last year.  Its not the rest of the team playing worse. Its not coaching (directly). Its not half the team playing worse than last year.  Again, take those 20 goals less you are getting and spread them out among all the games this year and, you turn a lot of those losses into wins.

 Tage in part due to injuries, Cozens due to just too many awful games. You don't need those guys to play BETTER than last year...just equal..or come CLOSE to their production last year and there is your PP fix and there is your team being in the hunt, if not already in a playoff position.  Tuch getting back healthy and Quinn playing just add a bonus to that.

I'm not totally, 100% against a coaching change, but I'm not sure how a coaching change fixes this problem....Tage scoring and Cozens giving you what you expect when you gave him $7m per year makes this coaching staff look a lot better. If they play the way they are, I doubt a new coach fixes the team.  

Edited December 10, 2023 by mjd1001

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Do you think Boterill pulled the plug on improving the team?   I don’t.  

Do you think Adams has been given full throttle to make this team a playoff team?  I don’t. 

The only thing good about Adams being a young first time GM is that he might stay and work in that environment when others won’t.  Boterill left on his own accord, because he had enough help from above, and got a job as an Assistant GM, more commensurate with his abilities at that point.   
 

Like former Sabres players, I am sure former coaches and FO execs have lots interesting stories to share.  

I have no insider information, so I don't know.  The current situation, post-covid, might be different.  We were a cap team under Botterill and in year one under Adams.  Prior to the most recent tear down and trading of Eichel, Risto, Reinhart, I don't think there is a lot of evidence that our GM's were told they can't spend money or utilize assets in order to get better. Unless we are planning to trade some of our more established young players in the next year or two, we will inevitably be a cap team again within 2 seasons.

RE: Botterill, my point really wasn't that he should have made a bold move at that time, but rather that he made the unusual choice to actually voice that he didn't think the team was as good as its record and therefore a bold move would be wrong. That was a bizarre message to send to your team. Adams, right now, seems to be doing the same thing but with inaction rather than words.

As you seem to imply though, maybe Pegula is a such a terrible owner that there is little hope for us to have success under his stewardship.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Archie Lee

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Dylan Cozens is playing hurt.

He will be finer than fine.

[Pimlach]

22 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I have no insider information, so I don't know.  The current situation, post-covid, might be different.  We were a cap team under Botterill and in year one under Adams.  Prior to the most recent tear down and trading of Eichel, Risto, Reinhart, I don't think there is a lot of evidence that our GM's were told they can't spend money or utilize assets in order to get better. Unless we are planning to trade some of our more established young players in the next year or two, we will inevitably be a cap team again within 2 seasons.

RE: Botterill, my point really wasn't that he should have made a bold move at that time, but rather that he made the unusual choice to actually voice that he didn't think the team was as good as its record and therefore a bold move would be wrong. That was a bizarre message to send to your team. Adams, right now, seems to be doing the same thing but with inaction rather than words.

As you suggest though, maybe everything we talk about here is meaningless and we should just shut the board down and hang a banner that says: "There is no point in talking about it until we have a new owner".

 

 

 

 

 

Please find where I said the bold so I can recant that because I sure do not want to shut down the forum. 

How much more proof you need as to why Boterill left.  He flat out told us he would not work under the EEE plan.  Rivet just told us that Bots did not want to offer that big contract to Skinner.   I am not a huge Boterill fan either, he hired Krueger (or so we think he did).  

You keep wondering why we are not making any significant moves, some of us know there are 2 reasons:

1. He cannot get the players we really need to come here via trade or free agency.
2. He is under constraints from his boss. 

Adams is basically bringing a knife to a gunfight.  

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Please find where I said the bold so I can recant that because I sure do not want to shut down the forum. 

I do not need to how much more proof you need as to why Boterill left.  He flat out told us he would not work under the EEE plan.  Rivet just told us that Bots did not want to offer that big contract to Skinner.   I am not a huge Boterill fan either, he hired Krueger (or so we think he did).  

You keep wondering why we not making any significant moves ,some of us know there are 2 reasons:

1. He cannot get the players we really need to come here via trade or free agency.
2. He is under constraints from his boss. 

Adams is basically bringing a knife to a gunfight.  

 

 

[bunomatic]

41 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I keep revisiting this thread every 3-5 days, after most games and I'm still in the same place.

This team's primary problem this year is scoring. Why? and how is it fixed?

-Last year they were 7th worst in goals allowed. This year they are 6th worst. About the same, but this DOES appear to be getting better, and the UPL/Levi long term combo seems like it will be better long term. So, defense and goals allowed aren't good, but not much worse than last year with at least room for potential improvement.

Offense.  They were first for good parts of last year, and they finished 3rd in the league in goals. This year they are 24th.  THIS is the problem.  Much of the same roster, same coaching staff, so this is where they are falling short.   So why? and who has to change/improve?

-Its not Skinner, he's on pace for 35.  Tuch? hes on pace for almost 30...the problem is that he is missing games, so maybe games missed is a small issue with him?

-VO and Peterka. They basically are wash from last year. You have 15 goals in 50 games from them this year (combined). Last year you had 40 goals in 152 games combined. This year, you are getting slightly more production per game. So its not really here.

-Cozens.  Here we go.  31 goals last year. This year...4 goals in 26 games (on pace for 12-13) There is issue #1. If December 10th of last year he had 10 goals.  More than double what he has this year.

-Tage. 7 goals in 19 games isn't bad (30 goal pace) but last year by December 10 he had 21 goals.  14 goal shortfall.

And you want to know why the PP is so bad? Those 2 guys had 11 pp goals by this time last year. This year? 2 PP goals between them. This year they are at 14.29%.  If you add those extra 9 goal shortcoming between those 2 guys, you get the PP back to 25%, which is 6th or 7th in the entire league.

So, Tage and Cozens.  20 goals less this year from those 2 guys than they had at this time last year.  Its not the rest of the team playing worse. Its not coaching (directly). Its not half the team playing worse than last year.  Again, take those 20 goals less you are getting and spread them out among all the games this year and, you turn a lot of those losses into wins.

 Tage in part due to injuries, Cozens due to just too many awful games. You don't need those guys to play BETTER than last year...just equal..or come CLOSE to their production last year and there is your PP fix and there is your team being in the hunt, if not already in a playoff position.  Tuch getting back healthy and Quinn playing just add a bonus to that.

I'm not totally, 100% against a coaching change, but I'm not sure how a coaching change fixes this problem....Tage scoring and Cozens giving you what you expect when you gave him $7m per year makes this coaching staff look a lot better. If they play the way they are, I doubt a new coach fixes the team.  

They have to get the PP going. 0-5 against Montreal killed us. Go back and look at our losses this year and in a lot of cases one or two PP goals would have changed the outcome. Ifvwe have to scuttle Matt freakin Ellis to fix the PP then so be it.

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

 

I clearly said, and I firmly believe that Adams is operating under constraints.  The constraints force Adams to do slow rebuild and use cap money ONLY for players that we draft, develop, indoctrinate, and say they want to be here".   If this works - looks like the timeline is in the next 3 to 6 years -  then ok.   But that is the reality we are in right now.  The positive side is it could work and we appear to be close.  The negative side is it could fail and burn out our current Core, and drive yet another rebuild.  

The reality looks from the outside like Adams cannot do what Yzerman is doing because Detroit is a fantastic destination for hockey and Buffalo is not.  Don't believe me?  Look at Patrick Kane.  Don't believe Kane?  Then look at the off season acquisitions and trades.  Why is Buffalo a bad hockey destination when it has a fan base that watches hockey on TV at the highest rate in the US,  even when its team is not playing and has been out of contention for 12 years?  Again, I submit that answer is Terry Pegula.  

Now please show me were I said  these words that you wrote:   "everything we talk about here is meaningless and we should just shut the board down and hang a banner that says: "There is no point in talking about it until we have a new owner"."   You won't find anything like that from me. 

You can be a Pegula apologist, that is fine, we do need a owner that will keep the team here.  You might be happy just to exist and have a team, that is fine if that is your thing.   But please do not create a narrative and then say I suggested it.  

I am on record here, I really do believe that Terry is a terrible NHL owner.  Just by his own W/L record he is the worst one ever.   Go to games in Buffalo, it is almost always a underwhelming experience. 

He can change this.  He just needs to hire some good people and  get out of their way.  Or, maybe Adams pulls this out in the next few years.  He might be looking for a coach soon.   Let see what he does.   

In addition -  I am now very worried for the Bills.  The media frenzy on McDermott is picking up and the pressure on him is sky high.  If Terry fires him he will most assuredly want to "help" Beane select the next coach.  Or we could lose Beane too.   I fear losing Beane more than anything Adams can do between now and the end of the season.  

 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I clearly said, and I firmly believe that Adams is operating under constraints.  The constraints force Adams to do slow rebuild and use cap money ONLY for players that we draft, develop, indoctrinate, and say they want to be here".   If this works - looks like the timeline is in the next 3 to 6 years -  then ok.   But that is the reality we are in right now.  The positive side is it could work and we appear to be close.  The negative side is it could fail and burn out our current Core, and drive yet another rebuild.  

The reality looks from the outside like Adams cannot do what Yzerman is doing because Detroit is a fantastic destination for hockey and Buffalo is not.  Don't believe me?  Look at Patrick Kane.  Don't believe Kane?  Then look at the off season acquisitions and trades.  Why is Buffalo a bad hockey destination when it has a fan base that watches hockey on TV at the highest rate in the US,  even when its team is not playing and has been out of contention for 12 years?  Again, I submit that answer is Terry Pegula.  

Now please show me were I said  these words that you wrote:   "everything we talk about here is meaningless and we should just shut the board down and hang a banner that says: "There is no point in talking about it until we have a new owner"."   You won't find anything like that from me. 

You can be a Pegula apologist, that is fine, we do need a owner that will keep the team here.  You might be happy just to exist and have a team, that is fine if that is your thing.   But please do not create a narrative and then say I suggested it.  

I am on record here, I really do believe that Terry is a terrible NHL owner.  Just by his own W/L record he is the worst one ever.   Go to games in Buffalo, it is almost always a underwhelming experience. 

He can change this.  He just needs to hire some good people and  get out of their way.  Or, maybe Adams pulls this out in the next few years.  He might be looking for a coach soon.   Let see what he does.   

In addition -  I am now very worried for the Bills.  The media frenzy on McDermott is picking up and the pressure on him is sky high.  If Terry fires him he will most assuredly want to "help" Beane select the next coach.  Or we could lose Beane too.   I fear losing Beane more than anything Adams can do between now and the end of the season.  

 

I think you are too fixated on the owner to come up for the reasons why the Sabres are struggling. KA proposed a strategy to the owner for the best pathway to rebuild a team that was in a state of stagnation. It was a strategy that emphasized drafting and development. The owner agreed with the rebuilding strategy that KA proposed to him. That's why he was hired! For the most part, the strategy has worked. It wasn't a quick fix because that mostly rebuild from within strategy is not a quick fix strategy. When the novice owner first took over the stewardship of the franchise, he looked for the quick fix that relied on throwing money and extended term contracts to free agents. It was a disaster. Not only was that strategy poorly executed but it set this franchise back.

KA has had more than enough time to allow his approach to work. In general, it has worked. The roster has been substantially reworked, and the system is robustly restocked. Most hockey people acknowledge that our system is one of the better systems in the NHL. What has gone wrong? The difference between success and failure in hockey is miniscule. Go back and review the games this season. It's not an exaggeration that we could have had at least three more wins. If that would have happened, our outlook would be so much better than it is now. 

There is no question that Yzerman is one of the best GMs in the game. He was instrumental in building a cup team in Detroit when he was first there, and was a major factor in Tampa's cup runs. What's frustrating is that most hockey people believed that Buffalo was ahead of Detroit with their respective rebuilds. Why do they appear to have jumped ahead of us this season? The answer is that the more astute and experienced GM brought in some experienced players to undergird a roster to support the young players on the roster. Our GM didn't adequately do so. 

I'm not panicking right now. The season isn't lost quite yet. My timeline will be at the halfway point before I make a more conclusive judgment about this season and rating of the GM. The road is currently bumpy but don't panic just yet and jump into the turbulent waters. The best approach right now is to be patient and ride it out, at least to midseason. 

 

[Archie Lee]

40 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I clearly said, and I firmly believe that Adams is operating under constraints.  The constraints force Adams to do slow rebuild and use cap money ONLY for players that we draft, develop, indoctrinate, and say they want to be here".   If this works - looks like the timeline is in the next 3 to 6 years -  then ok.   But that is the reality we are in right now.  The positive side is it could work and we appear to be close.  The negative side is it could fail and burn out our current Core, and drive yet another rebuild.  

The reality looks from the outside like Adams cannot do what Yzerman is doing because Detroit is a fantastic destination for hockey and Buffalo is not.  Don't believe me?  Look at Patrick Kane.  Don't believe Kane?  Then look at the off season acquisitions and trades.  Why is Buffalo a bad hockey destination when it has a fan base that watches hockey on TV at the highest rate in the US,  even when its team is not playing and has been out of contention for 12 years?  Again, I submit that answer is Terry Pegula.  

Now please show me were I said  these words that you wrote:   "everything we talk about here is meaningless and we should just shut the board down and hang a banner that says: "There is no point in talking about it until we have a new owner"."   You won't find anything like that from me. 

You can be a Pegula apologist, that is fine, we do need a owner that will keep the team here.  You might be happy just to exist and have a team, that is fine if that is your thing.   But please do not create a narrative and then say I suggested it.  

I am on record here, I really do believe that Terry is a terrible NHL owner.  Just by his own W/L record he is the worst one ever.   Go to games in Buffalo, it is almost always a underwhelming experience. 

He can change this.  He just needs to hire some good people and  get out of their way.  Or, maybe Adams pulls this out in the next few years.  He might be looking for a coach soon.   Let see what he does.   

In addition -  I am now very worried for the Bills.  The media frenzy on McDermott is picking up and the pressure on him is sky high.  If Terry fires him he will most assuredly want to "help" Beane select the next coach.  Or we could lose Beane too.   I fear losing Beane more than anything Adams can do between now and the end of the season.  

 

My apologies.  I have edited my earlier comments.

[Scottysabres]

Posted this elsewhere, but, even for myself, an over-reactionist, needs to renemeber.....

Adams said the goal was to make the playoffs, but it wasn't the main goal. Sabres fans, and NHL fans in general, need to realize a few factual realities.

When Adams took over, it's been rumored Pegula has a reputation for firing people quickly. This has been mentioned more than several times across multiple hockey media outlets, hell, NHL networks Weekes mentioned it 2 yrs ago. Local coverage, has mentioned it as well. Changing that perception means Adams and Granato, who have extensions, are staying at least through those extensions. It's also one of the reasons why no experienced GM or coach choose Buffalo, even with the youth talent over flowing on hand.

2nd, the youth. The team is devoid of veteran leadership, this isn't merely a choice by the organization. No vets of any real leadership quality want to sign here because they've witnessed what's happened in the past. The ROR situation, Eichel, rebuilding a rebuild and the extremely young age of the players. If it's going to be corrected, it's going to have to start within it's own existing ranks.

And finally, it's the players caliber of play on the ice itself. Oh sure, Sabres can score a lot, like 3rd highest scoring team a lot last season, but without matured players, whose bodies have filled out physically, who use the physical game,l on defense, who have a goaltender that can show consistency, what you see game in and game out is what your going to get.

Pegula, Adams, Granato, the players, what they need is time. Time to fill out physically, time to build true 200' chemistry, time to develop a goalie tandem internally, and lastly, time to show players around the league they are successful at it.

Playoffs? While Adams may have said that is the goal, there are much larger issues with this organization where other goals supercede the playoffs, many of them by past self inflicted wounds.

Sell the team? Not happening, Pegula has already said, the team will go to his eldest daughter, a Western New York and Sabres fan. This will eventually pass, but yes, the damage to the brand will take "TIME" to heal. Sabres fans, and hockey fans in general, should at the very least, take the totality of the overall larger picture into consideration when forming opinions on the the Sabres. At least, I would hope they do.

Edit: oh, and while I may be now following 1 or 2 Western Conference Teams playoff bound to give me something to cheer for while our beloved Sabres trek this uphill battle, it should never be mistaken, I am blue and gold first and foremost. I have been, do now, and even in to eternal life, be a Sabres faithful.

GO SABRES!!!!!!

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scottysabres

[mjd1001]

44 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I clearly said, and I firmly believe that Adams is operating under constraints.  The constraints force Adams to do slow rebuild and use cap money ONLY for players that we draft, develop, indoctrinate, and say they want to be here".   If this works - looks like the timeline is in the next 3 to 6 years -  then ok.   But that is the reality we are in right now.  The positive side is it could work and we appear to be close.  The negative side is it could fail and burn out our current Core, and drive yet another rebuild.  

The reality looks from the outside like Adams cannot do what Yzerman is doing because Detroit is a fantastic destination for hockey and Buffalo is not.  Don't believe me?  Look at Patrick Kane.  Don't believe Kane?  Then look at the off season acquisitions and trades.  Why is Buffalo a bad hockey destination when it has a fan base that watches hockey on TV at the highest rate in the US,  even when its team is not playing and has been out of contention for 12 years?  Again, I submit that answer is Terry Pegula.  

Now please show me were I said  these words that you wrote:   "everything we talk about here is meaningless and we should just shut the board down and hang a banner that says: "There is no point in talking about it until we have a new owner"."   You won't find anything like that from me. 

You can be a Pegula apologist, that is fine, we do need a owner that will keep the team here.  You might be happy just to exist and have a team, that is fine if that is your thing.   But please do not create a narrative and then say I suggested it.  

I am on record here, I really do believe that Terry is a terrible NHL owner.  Just by his own W/L record he is the worst one ever.   Go to games in Buffalo, it is almost always a underwhelming experience. 

He can change this.  He just needs to hire some good people and  get out of their way.  Or, maybe Adams pulls this out in the next few years.  He might be looking for a coach soon.   Let see what he does.   

In addition -  I am now very worried for the Bills.  The media frenzy on McDermott is picking up and the pressure on him is sky high.  If Terry fires him he will most assuredly want to "help" Beane select the next coach.  Or we could lose Beane too.   I fear losing Beane more than anything Adams can do between now and the end of the season.  

 

I wish I could disagree with this but I agree with most if not all of what you said.

I have seen glimpses, or more than glimpses of Adams That makes me believe he's a pretty smart guy who knows hockey and knows what he's doing.

I also don't think Granato is a bad coach. I think he's a good coach. I am not sure how much I believe he developed guys but he all of a sudden turned into a bad coach in terms of wins and losses. As I said in another post this team shortcoming is Cozens and Thompson not producing like last year, not Granato being a bad coach.

What I cannot do... Is look from the outside and see examples where Pegula is anything but a bad owner. I don't have inside information obviously, but every little bit of circumstantial evidence I see tells me he's a bad owner and he makes big mistakes.