So now what?

[COSabreFan]

9 hours ago, Spoonman said:

Sabres. Mediocrity. Again.

Why?

> Very poor roster construction. I get the draft and develop, but GMKA is showing his lack of experience…. Did not bring in veteran leadership that is making a difference on and off ice (OK, I will grove you EJ Sr.) Not enough. One word: Detroit…. (see below)

> Early injuries.  Every team has injuries. The injuries have exposed Sabre's lack of depth.  Exhibit one: 11/7 lineups 

> Coaching. Something is just not connecting.

• Too much youth and guys who made roster easily in prior seasons, with a small handful of veterans, but that is the cards dealt.
• Not enough accountability. Need to sit guys.  
• The majority of the coaching staff is young in years on NHL staffs. Meatballs has a total of 7 yrs. 

> No winning leadership. (players 29 yrs. up) - less than 80 playoff games of experience on the team (only 2 players to boot)

• Oakie and Z have not won in the league. Oakie 24 playoff games, Z = ZERO
• Skinny "Between Two Stalls" is on hiatus, and he is not a leader. Also ZERO playoff experience
• EJ Sr. adding value on PK early, but not sure what he can do on his own in his first (and only) year w Sabres. 55 NHL games, and a Cup.

        None is enough to show the young ins what winning NHL hockey takes.

Management:

• GMKA's focus seems to be way too much on culture, and not enough on results, and accountability.
• Did a good job moving and getting some good value for Jack, Rino, and Risto.
• Great that he talks with other GMs regularly. So, that got us what?
• So far seems to love “his guys”.
  • Needs to put on his big boy pants and make the necessary deals to get this roster construction in a better place.
  • Need to move guys, prospects, picks, and use cap space in smart, bold trades to grow this team.

This is where it gets hard Kev...

Detroit's rebuild included a mix of veterans and younger players. Now have added (will see what happens) Kane mid year.

Sabres' latest rebuild:

• Drafting and developing young players. OK. 
• Veteran leadership (see above). Not acceptable.
• Did nothing of note in off-season (unless you want to argue: 1/ Oakie's buddy EJ Sr and 2/ Clifton, another US Developmental League guy from Granato's time there). .Weak tea.

This form of "rebuild" takes more time than we the fans are able to deal with anymore, after 12 years and talk in the preseason of playoffs (everyone drinking the Kool aid).....as THE DROUGHT, as this team is presently built and coached, looks to continue.

Whatcha gonna do GMKA, Donnie, Terry?

Terry isn’t going to do anything!!!  Terry is more concerned with stability than actually winning championships.  Both the Sabres and Bills are structured exactly how he wants them.  Both teams are filled with management, coaches and players that are “culture” and “process” oriented first, which always gives him a convenient out when they under perform.

Terry is not driven by winning Championships period.  He has been completely absent from both teams for years, while he largely lives on his yacht in Florida.  I understand currently being there for Kim and her recovery, but then delegate or restructure the organizations so there is way more accountability.  The only time he has been seen or heard from is to cut the ribbon on his new cash register in Orchard Park after stealing/taking 950 million dollars from NYS residents.

The managements, coaches and players of both teams kind of love this setup.  They can do what they want, play how they want and not worry about any real accountability from anyone.  These teams are both not driven entities of excellence but complete country clubs and that ALL starts with Terry!

I always thought that the Bills were just a cash register to Terry, just there to make him look good in public and bring in a sh*t ton of money.  But I really did think he cared about the Sabres.  I had faith the Sabres would get it right under his ownership because he seemed to truly love the team and its history.  Man, I just don’t know anymore.

This all starts with Terry, he has created this atmosphere with both teams.  If he truly can’t take command and demand better for whatever reason he should just cash out and sell them both.

[Mango]

I really think next steps for this franchise starts with Terry asking GMKA what the plan is this year and next year. If Adams says “patience” or anything resembling “run it back”. We have to move on immediately. 
 

Because if that’s the case the problem here is vision not coaching and all we will be doing is delaying the inevitable. 

[Stoner]

Zamboni: So what, now?

[zow2]

This was a playoff season or bust.  Even Alex Tuch made the comment that the time is now. That this is the season.  So i don’t know where they go from here.

[mjd1001]

GOALS ALLOWED.   Where are they coming from and why?

The forwards on this team are historically bad at helping out the defense and any kind of positional play in their own zone.  The Defense isn't THAT bad.  A lot of times they 'look bad' covering up for the forward being non-existent in their help. Power has taken a step back and Clifton hasn't been playing GREAT, but they aren't as bad as they look at first glance.  The effort and the positioning of the forward, however, needs to be shot into the sun.

The first goal allowed...The D were caught back by themselves, where the heck are the forwards?  It was off of an offensive zone faceoff, The d-men had to cover the whole zone and make decisions because NONE of the forwards hustled back.

That is not on the D, that is not on coaching (directly). These Forwards are awful. When the shot was taken, Cozens was just finally showing up in the zone and Benson? He was still at center ice and coasting.  AFTER AN OFFENSIVE ZONE FACEOFF. Be carful with how much credit we are giving both Cozens AND Benson for an all around game.

2nd goal, Carolina takse the puck out of their zone, skate through the forecheck like it isn't even there. Who's the right wing? Biro?  No where near his side and that is where the goal comes from.

3rd goal allowed. scored from right in front of the net. Who is the center and where was he? Oh, Cozens AGAIN just deciding to skate away and chase the puck into the corner, by the time he gets there the puck is gone, and it makes it back to the slot where an opposing player is right there to score again (the spot that Cozens vacated). Cozens does this AGAIN and AGAIN and NEVER changes or learns.  

5th goal.  Cozens AGAIN.  Now I understand at this point you might want to take a chance. BUT, when this team gives up PP goals MOST Of them, when you watch the replays, are when they get out of position. Cozens chases the puck AGAIN, goes all the way to the Blue line, but  he had no chance of getting it. The Carolina defenseman got there well before Cozens and Cozens was still 10 feet away. The puck easily makes it down low to the goal scorer, while Cozens is totally out of the play.

These forward....unreal how bad they are defensively, and Cozens has to be one of the worst in the league in D-zone positioning. He is awful, dreadful. He just does whatever he wants and his decisions in his own end are almost always wrong. 

And everyone who says you need a coaching change? IF a new coach is going to get these forward to get their heads out of their butt with how they play in their own zone AND skate harder on the backcheck, that is the only way this team gets better now.

This D is not good but they aren't THE  problem. The forwards absolutely are hideous and playing positionally and backchecking.  I don't think I've ever seen a team worse.

Tell me how to get these forwards to hustle back harder after EVERY TIME they lose an offensive zone faceoff? Tell me how to get them to stop chasing pucks they have no chance of getting in their own zone and keeping their position? Tell me how Okposo can gain back 5% more speed? Benson hasn't put full effort in.  You know the guys who DO this well? Thompson, Oloffsson (Yes, Victor is THIS year) Tuch, and Girgensons. Those are the only 4 guys I see on a regular basis holding position in their own end.

Edited December 3, 2023 by mjd1001

[SabresVet]

If 2021-22 was really Year 1 of this rebuild under KA and DG, then this is year 3 and the results are middling, highlighted by some outstanding efforts, but complemented by more games on the opposite end of the spectrum like last night at at New Jersey.   

Who pushes the players and gives them the internal competition to raise their game in this franchise?  Neither the GM nor HC seemingly do.  And I'm not referring to yelling and screaming at them, because that doesn't work at the pro level.  To me, a shake-up is now warranted beyond sending a young goaltending prospect to Rochester.  

It won't happen.  Firing the HC and replacing him is a bridge too far and reveals the plan is not working.  Making a trade is difficult with cap implications.  Benching a player?  Not their style.  And so the status quo continues resulting in the refrain of "they're young."  I suppose it will take another year of this to make clear what more people are realizing: the plan is inherently flawed. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by SabresVet

[mjd1001]

Right now I'm starting to lean on the train about trading for some mid-level forwards who are vets.  Thompson, Tuch, and Skinner (when Thompson gets healthy) get ready, that line is good and you are going to get 20+ minutes per game.  Those guys are going to carry this team like never before.

Krebs, Cozens, Benson, Rosen, Kulich...The ones how are eligible for Rochester go there and between games you make them watch video of how the Bruins or Kings or even the Red Wings forwards play without the puck. Learn when you need to hustle, when NOT to chase the puck, and how they react in their own zone. The guys who can't go to Roch, you do the same.  Lock them in a room and make them watch what THEY do vs what the vets on those teams do....and if they aren't learning they stay in Rochester or if they are in Buffalo you keep dropping and dropping their ice time till they DO learn.  Play the middling vets you can trade for in their place if you must.

Girgensons, Mitts, you aren't great but you are "OK" You can stay but don't get too comfortable.

Who else can I do without? Okposo, thanks for the goals last week but he is too slow and hurting this team. Greenway? Good penalty killer but you aren't bringing anything else. Jost?  Last year you hustled and played well positionally, what the heck happened this year where that is gone?

Okposo, Greenway, and Jost can go and get replaced by someone else.  Krebs, Cozens, and Benson, I'd consider sitting them and have a newly acquired vet take their minutes.

Edited December 3, 2023 by mjd1001

[Jorcus]

26 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I posted this in the gameday thread but I'm putting it here after looking at things a bit more and watching the replays of the goals allowed.

The forwards on this team are historically bad at helping out the defense and any kind of positional play in their own zone.  The Defense isn't THAT bad.  A lot of times they 'look bad' covering up for the forward being non-existent in their help. Power has taken a step back and Clifton hasn't been playing GREAT, but they aren't as bad as they look at first glance.  The effort and the positioning of the forward, however, needs to be shot into the sun.

The first goal allowed...The D were caught back by themselves, where the heck are the forwards?  It was off of an offensive zone faceoff, The d-men had to cover the whole zone and make decisions because NONE of the forwards hustled back.

That is not on the D, that is not on coaching (directly). These Forwards are awful. When the shot was taken, Cozens was just finally showing up in the zone and Benson? He was still at center ice and coasting.  AFTER AN OFFENSIVE ZONE FACEOFF. Be carful with how much credit we are giving both Cozens AND Benson for an all around game.

2nd goal, Carolina takse the puck out of their zone, skate through the forecheck like it isn't even there. Who's the right wing? Biro?  No where near his side and that is where the goal comes from.

3rd goal allowed. scored from right in front of the net. Who is the center and where was he? Oh, Cozens AGAIN just deciding to skate away and chase the puck into the corner, by the time he gets there the puck is gone, and it makes it back to the slot where an opposing player is right there to score again. Cozens does this AGAIN and AGAIN and NEVER changes or learns.  

5th goal.  Cozens AGAIN.  Now I understand at this point you might want to take a chance. BUT, when this team gives up PP goals MOST Of them, when you watch the replays, are when they get out of position. Cozens chases the puck AGAIN, goes all the way to the Blue line, but  he had no chance of getting it. The Carolina defenseman got there well before Cozens and Cozens was still 10 feet away. The puck easily makes it down low to the goal scorer, while Cozens is totally out of the play.

These forward....unreal how bad they are defensively, and Cozens has to be one of the worst in the league in D-zone positioning. He is awful, dreadful. He just does whatever he wants and his decisions in his own end are almost always wrong. 

And everyone who says you need a coaching change? IF a new coach is going to get these forward to get their heads out of their butt with how they play in their own zone AND skate harder on the backcheck, that is the only way this team gets better now.

This D is not good but they aren't THE  problem. The forwards absolutely are hideous and playing positionally and backchecking.  I don't think I've ever seen a team worse.

 

Interesting analysis on the forwards. I remember comments by Granato last year about teaching teams/players offense first and then the defense part comes after and more quickly. They obviously tried to work on the D in the offseason and early part of this year, and for awhile it seemed to work as far as cutting down the goals against. Now for a number of reasons that seems to have come apart. I agree the forwards are not coming back to help but the D seems to also have problems clearing the front of the net and at times getting caught deep in the offensive zone. I know it was late in the game but watching Clifton go down behind the opposing goal leaves someone hung out to dry on the way back. Power and Dahlin get caught down there as well. If they were scoring goals like they were last year some of these flaws could be covered up but they just are not right now. Are they caught between an old an new system? That can, and has to change for this team to be any good. It can change in a hurry because there are guys on the team that can score but they have to get at it pretty quick or it's going to be a long season.     

[Sabres Super Fan]

2 hours ago, COSabreFan said:

Terry isn’t going to do anything!!!  Terry is more concerned with stability than actually winning championships.  Both the Sabres and Bills are structured exactly how he wants them.  Both teams are filled with management, coaches and players that are “culture” and “process” oriented first, which always gives him a convenient out when they under perform.

Terry is not driven by winning Championships period.  He has been completely absent from both teams for years, while he largely lives on his yacht in Florida.  I understand currently being there for Kim and her recovery, but then delegate or restructure the organizations so there is way more accountability.  The only time he has been seen or heard from is to cut the ribbon on his new cash register in Orchard Park after stealing/taking 950 million dollars from NYS residents.

The managements, coaches and players of both teams kind of love this setup.  They can do what they want, play how they want and not worry about any real accountability from anyone.  These teams are both not driven entities of excellence but complete country clubs and that ALL starts with Terry!

I always thought that the Bills were just a cash register to Terry, just there to make him look good in public and bring in a sh*t ton of money.  But I really did think he cared about the Sabres.  I had faith the Sabres would get it right under his ownership because he seemed to truly love the team and its history.  Man, I just don’t know anymore.

This all starts with Terry, he has created this atmosphere with both teams.  If he truly can’t take command and demand better for whatever reason he should just cash out and sell them both.

I agree but Terry Pegula has no reason to do this when both teams continue to go up in value and he can use the Buffalo Sabres losses against his other profitable businesses at tax time. The bottom line is the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres just exist and for a lot of Buffalo fans they are good with that. But the problem is as prices continue to climb and Buffalo salaries don’t keep up with the rest of the country that is where long term one or both of these professional franchises could be sold or moved potentially out of Buffalo. Terry Pegula is 73 years old that also could become a potential problem as Terry ages it’s not that simple to pass professional franchises to your kids because of the inheritance taxes due. I think one team most likely survives and if I was to guess it’s the Buffalo Sabres because NHL hockey franchises aren’t as popular as NFL franchises. I really believe at some point the New Bills Stadium is going to be a Buffalo CFL football franchise stadium with costs more inlined with Buffalo salaries and what Buffalo fans can afford. But that is just speculation on my part maybe the Buffalo Bills survive and the Buffalo Sabres move with Buffalo becoming a AHL hockey city again. Or maybe none of the Buffalo franchises move out of Buffalo just more suffering because both the Buffalo franchises exist who knows. But one thing I do know it’s going to cost all the Buffalo fans in some way money wise weather one likes it or not in my opinion. Go Sabres! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Archie Lee]

It's hard to know what the issues are.

- Do we have enough talent and experience to realistically compete for a playoff spot? If not, then it would be shameful to fire Granato.  He has done a great job developing some of our young players.  Last year's run wasn't nothing.  It would be short-sighted to fire him if there is no reasonable hope for his replacement to do substantively better with current roster construction.  He is, by all accounts, as good a man as you could have coaching young men.

Or

- Is the coaching just not good enough? I think of how often Eichel would race back on the back-check only to end-up over-pursuing or taking the wrong man, allowing the opposition an easy goal.  Cozens, right now, reminds me of this.  Eichel, I understand, is pretty good at defending. Coaching unquestionably plays a role. 

Are we icing a team that has too many players who are incapable of functioning on the roster of a playoff calibre team? Or are the coaches just not capable of putting the players in position to get themselves to the next level?  Is it one of those things, or is it both?

Maybe we are last year's Canucks? They had 92 points in 21-22, thought they were something they weren't, and Tochett was brought in and seems to have fixed the culture. It's a small sample, but the players there seem fine with the ornery Tochett as their coach. Winning will do that.

Dean Evason says he's ready to go.

The next 5 games are critical.  We have 4 at home against Nash, Det, Mtl and Arizona with a trip to Boston sandwiched in between.  I'm a believer that the long season means that a team's identity and performance can significantly change mid-campaign.  A team can have 40 points at the 40 game mark and rattle of an 8-1-1 stretch and go from being on an 82 point pace to a 93 point pace in a hurry (93 currently gets you in). But we can't fall further behind than we currently are. 

Cozens is right.  This team needs a little FU in it's game.  We need to see that starting tonight.

I have no idea what my point is.

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

It's hard to know what the issues are.

- Do we have enough talent and experience to realistically compete for a playoff spot? If not, then it would be shameful to fire Granato.  He has done a great job developing some of our young players.  Last year's run wasn't nothing.  It would be short-sighted to fire him if there is no reasonable hope for his replacement to do substantively better with current roster construction.  He is, by all accounts, as good a man as you could have coaching young men.

Or

- Is the coaching just not good enough? I think of how often Eichel would race back on the back-check only to end-up over-pursuing or taking the wrong man, allowing the opposition an easy goal.  Cozens, right now, reminds me of this.  Eichel, I understand, is pretty good at defending. Coaching unquestionably plays a role. 

Are we icing a team that has too many players who are incapable of functioning on the roster of a playoff calibre team? Or are the coaches just not capable of putting the players in position to get themselves to the next level?  Is it one of those things, or is it both?

Maybe we are last year's Canucks? They had 92 points in 21-22, thought they were something they weren't, and Tochett was brought in and seems to have fixed the culture. It's a small sample, but the players there seem fine with the ornery Tochett as their coach. Winning will do that.

Dean Evason says he's ready to go.

The next 5 games are critical.  We have 4 at home against Nash, Det, Mtl and Arizona with a trip to Boston sandwiched in between.  I'm a believer that the long season means that a team's identity and performance can significantly change mid-campaign.  A team can have 40 points at the 40 game mark and rattle of an 8-1-1 stretch and go from being on an 82 point pace to a 93 point pace in a hurry (93 currently gets you in). But we can't fall further behind than we currently are. 

Cozens is right.  This team needs a little FU in it's game.  We need to see that starting tonight.

I have no idea what my point is.

We have at least 6 skaters that are not playoff capable players on any team.  Their record is there for us to see.  

The coaching staff is failing to adjust.  The Powerplay is a prime example.  It has been figured out long ago, and the Sabres coaches have no answer or adjustments.  

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

We have at least 6 skaters that are not playoff capable players on any team.  Their record is there for us to see.  

The coaching staff is failing to adjust.  The Powerplay is a prime example.  It has been figured out long ago, and the Sabres coaches have no answer or adjustments.  

Who are the 6?  
 

If we have 6 regular skaters who would be incapable of playing on a playoff team, then no amount of coaching adjustments will save us. 

[Marvin]

8 hours ago, Jorcus said:

Interesting analysis on the forwards. I remember comments by Granato last year about teaching teams/players offense first and then the defense part comes after and more quickly. They obviously tried to work on the D in the offseason and early part of this year, and for awhile it seemed to work as far as cutting down the goals against. Now for a number of reasons that seems to have come apart. I agree the forwards are not coming back to help but the D seems to also have problems clearing the front of the net and at times getting caught deep in the offensive zone. I know it was late in the game but watching Clifton go down behind the opposing goal leaves someone hung out to dry on the way back. Power and Dahlin get caught down there as well. If they were scoring goals like they were last year some of these flaws could be covered up but they just are not right now. Are they caught between an old an new system? That can, and has to change for this team to be any good. It can change in a hurry because there are guys on the team that can score but they have to get at it pretty quick or it's going to be a long season.     

Welcome to the board!

[Flashsabre]

So Macklin Celebrini, Welcome to Hell😛

[Archie Lee]

Last year the team had some injuries on the defense, but stayed remarkably healthy up front until Thompson’s injury late in the year.

This year we did not get off to the start we needed and the forward injuries are piling up. If Tuch is out Tuesday and nobody is back, we will be down 5 of our projected starting 12 forwards. If we had gotten off to a good start we might be able to “weather the storm”. But we are no longer in “weather the storm” territory.  The storm is wiping us out.  

Honestly, it’s time to get Benson, Rosen and  R. Johnson out of here. No need to let the losing-stink get on them. Let Johnson and Rosen and Kulich and Levi have a long run with the Amerks. Let Benson go play for Canada and take a run at a WHL championship with Savoie. The kids aren’t going to bail us out so there is no need for them to learn how to lose. 

[FrenchConnection44]

I don’t care what players we bring in - and we need to do that - but unless there is a coaching change nothing will change. The players need a guy with a good system who will hold them accountable. I just don’t see any real coaching or system with Granato. You never want to see a coach fired. But this is a business where you can make a lot of money in a short time as a head coach. And it comes with a ton of pressure. 

[Marvin]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I don’t care what players we bring in - and we need to do that - but unless there is a coaching change nothing will change. The players need a guy with a good system who will hold them accountable. I just don’t see any real coaching or system with Granato. You never want to see a coach fired. But this is a business where you can make a lot of money in a short time as a head coach. And it comes with a ton of pressure. 

I think that I can see Granato's defencive system.  I see players blowing assignments, losing positioning, being positionally unaware, or being situationally clueless.  I see forwards exiting the zone too soon and leaving the defence out to dry.

There are problems at the other end of the ice too aside from the lack of scoring.  I see forwards get caught deep far too often when the opposition breaks out.  When some of our forwards are caught deep, they are too slow to get back on defence before the opposition gets off a shot.

As @PromoTheRobot  said in another thread, they are confused on defence and they seem to not know how to crank up the offence while being aware of their defencive assignments, so they do neither defence nor offence well.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think that a big part of the issue is the change in style to a defence approach.  The thinking was to try to establish the D system during the season to get it set for the playoff.  A big mistake was assuming that the offence will still motor along at about the same level.  It didn't and here we are.  Playoffs are in real danger.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think that a big part of the issue is the change in style to a defence approach.  The thinking was to try to establish the D system during the season to get it set for the playoff.  A big mistake was assuming that the offence will still motor along at about the same level.  It didn't and here we are.  Playoffs are in real danger.

So interesting. If only that was imminently predictable, as seen by some random message board nut this summer..

This got little traction in thread, other than a couple eye-rolls to my responses after @JohnC said “So what?” to my point.

So NOW what, indeed

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Cityo'Rasmii]

Response to thread title is simple...

Continue the prolonged suffering

Go Sabres

[Marvin]

So what?

I'm still a rock star.

I've got my rock moves.

And I don't need you.

And guess what...

Oh, sorry.  This is how I have been coping since The Tank.

[Mango]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:07 AM, COSabreFan said:

Terry isn’t going to do anything!!!  Terry is more concerned with stability than actually winning championships.  Both the Sabres and Bills are structured exactly how he wants them.  Both teams are filled with management, coaches and players that are “culture” and “process” oriented first, which always gives him a convenient out when they under perform.

Terry is not driven by winning Championships period.  He has been completely absent from both teams for years, while he largely lives on his yacht in Florida.  I understand currently being there for Kim and her recovery, but then delegate or restructure the organizations so there is way more accountability.  The only time he has been seen or heard from is to cut the ribbon on his new cash register in Orchard Park after stealing/taking 950 million dollars from NYS residents.

The managements, coaches and players of both teams kind of love this setup.  They can do what they want, play how they want and not worry about any real accountability from anyone.  These teams are both not driven entities of excellence but complete country clubs and that ALL starts with Terry!

I always thought that the Bills were just a cash register to Terry, just there to make him look good in public and bring in a sh*t ton of money.  But I really did think he cared about the Sabres.  I had faith the Sabres would get it right under his ownership because he seemed to truly love the team and its history.  Man, I just don’t know anymore.

This all starts with Terry, he has created this atmosphere with both teams.  If he truly can’t take command and demand better for whatever reason he should just cash out and sell them both.

I actually think Terry cares and he tries. The problem is he sucks at it. He knew enough to hire a business partner to act as an admin in oil and gas. (It is Jerry Fortons brother in law)

This is his rich guy play toy.   
 
He’s entitled to it. He has FU money even when compared to people with FU money. But as fans were also entitled to ridicule him for sucking at it. 

If it wasn’t my football/hockey team I’d almost feel bad for the guy. He’s like reverse Dan Snyder. It’s borderline embarrassing to care so much about something but sucks so much at it at such a high level. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mango
Note on Forton.

[Buffalonill]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:36 AM, Sabres Super Fan said:

I agree but Terry Pegula has no reason to do this when both teams continue to go up in value and he can use the Buffalo Sabres losses against his other profitable businesses at tax time. The bottom line is the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres just exist and for a lot of Buffalo fans they are good with that. But the problem is as prices continue to climb and Buffalo salaries don’t keep up with the rest of the country that is where long term one or both of these professional franchises could be sold or moved potentially out of Buffalo. Terry Pegula is 73 years old that also could become a potential problem as Terry ages it’s not that simple to pass professional franchises to your kids because of the inheritance taxes due. I think one team most likely survives and if I was to guess it’s the Buffalo Sabres because NHL hockey franchises aren’t as popular as NFL franchises. I really believe at some point the New Bills Stadium is going to be a Buffalo CFL football franchise stadium with costs more inlined with Buffalo salaries and what Buffalo fans can afford. But that is just speculation on my part maybe the Buffalo Bills survive and the Buffalo Sabres move with Buffalo becoming a AHL hockey city again. Or maybe none of the Buffalo franchises move out of Buffalo just more suffering because both the Buffalo franchises exist who knows. But one thing I do know it’s going to cost all the Buffalo fans in some way money wise weather one likes it or not in my opinion. Go Sabres! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I don't know where you're coming up with this crap lol.. Sabres and bills will never leave buffalo 

 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I don't know where you're coming up with this crap lol.. Sabres and bills will never leave buffalo 

 

Absolutely agree. 

[Mango]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:19 AM, mjd1001 said:

GOALS ALLOWED.   Where are they coming from and why?

The forwards on this team are historically bad at helping out the defense and any kind of positional play in their own zone.  The Defense isn't THAT bad.  A lot of times they 'look bad' covering up for the forward being non-existent in their help. Power has taken a step back and Clifton hasn't been playing GREAT, but they aren't as bad as they look at first glance.  The effort and the positioning of the forward, however, needs to be shot into the sun.

The first goal allowed...The D were caught back by themselves, where the heck are the forwards?  It was off of an offensive zone faceoff, The d-men had to cover the whole zone and make decisions because NONE of the forwards hustled back.

That is not on the D, that is not on coaching (directly). These Forwards are awful. When the shot was taken, Cozens was just finally showing up in the zone and Benson? He was still at center ice and coasting.  AFTER AN OFFENSIVE ZONE FACEOFF. Be carful with how much credit we are giving both Cozens AND Benson for an all around game.

2nd goal, Carolina takse the puck out of their zone, skate through the forecheck like it isn't even there. Who's the right wing? Biro?  No where near his side and that is where the goal comes from.

3rd goal allowed. scored from right in front of the net. Who is the center and where was he? Oh, Cozens AGAIN just deciding to skate away and chase the puck into the corner, by the time he gets there the puck is gone, and it makes it back to the slot where an opposing player is right there to score again (the spot that Cozens vacated). Cozens does this AGAIN and AGAIN and NEVER changes or learns.  

5th goal.  Cozens AGAIN.  Now I understand at this point you might want to take a chance. BUT, when this team gives up PP goals MOST Of them, when you watch the replays, are when they get out of position. Cozens chases the puck AGAIN, goes all the way to the Blue line, but  he had no chance of getting it. The Carolina defenseman got there well before Cozens and Cozens was still 10 feet away. The puck easily makes it down low to the goal scorer, while Cozens is totally out of the play.

These forward....unreal how bad they are defensively, and Cozens has to be one of the worst in the league in D-zone positioning. He is awful, dreadful. He just does whatever he wants and his decisions in his own end are almost always wrong. 

And everyone who says you need a coaching change? IF a new coach is going to get these forward to get their heads out of their butt with how they play in their own zone AND skate harder on the backcheck, that is the only way this team gets better now.

This D is not good but they aren't THE  problem. The forwards absolutely are hideous and playing positionally and backchecking.  I don't think I've ever seen a team worse.

Tell me how to get these forwards to hustle back harder after EVERY TIME they lose an offensive zone faceoff? Tell me how to get them to stop chasing pucks they have no chance of getting in their own zone and keeping their position? Tell me how Okposo can gain back 5% more speed? Benson hasn't put full effort in.  You know the guys who DO this well? Thompson, Oloffsson (Yes, Victor is THIS year) Tuch, and Girgensons. Those are the only 4 guys I see on a regular basis holding position in their own end.

Not to pile on, but Cozens looked like he had cement skates on in the final two minutes against Preds last night. When you mentioned him not only being late to the corner but it also causing him to get caught out of position over and over again, I heard myself yelling at my TV18 hours ago.