Benson - Keep him here

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yes.

 

(You propose a false dichotomy.)

Ok.   KA said last year was development; this year is play to win.  
 

What other options are there?  

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Levi has played 2 good games out of 8.  His save % in the other 6 games was well under .900. The Sabres are 1-4-1 in those 6 games.

Comrie has played 1 good game out of 4. His save% in the other 3 games was well under .900 and the Sabres lost all 3.

In total the Sabres are 4-7-1 in games started by Comrie and Levi this season.  Sorry, they haven’t been good.

Our 5 in 5 offense hasn’t been bad.  It’s 9th in the NHL with 41 goals.  The failing PP is the key offensive issue.

 

 

Those are your metrics of what is good and bad.

[Marvin]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Those are your metrics of what is good and bad.

.900 is the current standard for mediocre goaltending.  That is not even average.

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, Marvin said:

.900 is the current standard for mediocre goaltending.  That is not even average.

Stats are only one measure. If you don't actually watch and understand how each goal is scored, it tells you nothing.

If you were my goalie scout, I don't want stats. I want you to tell me...

...is he in position?
...how are his reflexes?
...if he lets a goal in, tell me why.
...how often does he make a bad play/gets caught out of position when he ISN'T scored on?

Edited November 24, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, Marvin said:

.900 is the current standard for mediocre goaltending.  That is not even average.

.900 is right around league average.  .902 as of yesterday.

[Doohicksie]

39 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Ok.   KA said last year was development; this year is play to win.  
 

What other options are there?  

[Doohicksie]

The point is:  It isn't a straight either/or situation.

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Those are your metrics of what is good and bad.

I guess, but it’s a pretty universal standard.  The Sabres have only lost one game this season when recording a .900 save % or better.  They have only won 2 games with under .900.  In one of those two wins, UPL had a .895 and the other was the 6-4 win over Toronto.  

It’s pretty straight forward.  Stop 90% of your opponents shots and you win the game.  Fail to do it, you lose.

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I guess, but it’s a pretty universal standard.  The Sabres have only lost one game this season when recording a .900 save % or better.  They have only won 2 games with under .900.  In one of those two wins, UPL had a .895 and the other was the 6-4 win over Toronto.  

It’s pretty straight forward.  Stop 90% of your opponents shots and you win the game.  Fail to do it, you lose.

Our goaltending has improved to slightly below average this season 

Adams presumably sleeping well 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Stats are only one measure. If you don't actually watch and understand how each goal is scored, it tells you nothing.

If you were my goalie scout, I don't want stats. I want you to tell me...

...is he in position?
...how are his reflexes?
...if he lets a goal in, tell me why.
...how often does he make a bad play/gets caught out of position when he ISN'T scored on?

I have not seen many goals yielded by the Sabres where the goaltenders clearly goofed.  Certainly, the rate of bad goals this year is less than it was last year.  But I see a lot of saves by other teams where I am asking myself, "why don't the Sabres ever get that save?"

Yes, I know that is unfair.  IMHO, you can argue successfully that I should not expect more from young goaltenders.  IMHO, you can successfully argue that given the overall youth in the skaters, you should expect that the chances against the goaltenders are a bit above the league average.  Usually, the GM tries to get established netminding with young skaters to cover up some of their mistakes.  Alternatively, you can cover for young goaltenders with a veteran team that plays a tight defencive system.  The Sabres are going about their team building in a way that is very rarely tried because there are so many more variable.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Our goaltending has improved to slightly below average this season 

Adams presumably sleeping well 

As a whole, yes. Individually, 6K has played quite well. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I have not seen many goals yielded by the Sabres where the goaltenders clearly goofed.  Certainly, the rate of bad goals this year is less than it was last year.  But I see a lot of saves by other teams where I am asking myself, "why don't the Sabres ever get that save?"

I'm going to suggest a possibility based on an examination of Linus Ullmark. He was inconsistent and average when he was here. When he first went to Boston he was not good and he let in several bad goals. As communication improved, he got used to his D and he learned he could trust and rely on them he got better, played bigger, gained more and more confidence and won a Vezina. In the playoffs, the Boston D cracked under the Florida pressure. He lost his edge, overplayed the puck again and was not the same goalie. See where I'm going?

The relationship between the goalie and their D is key and a team with solid structure and good defense leads to even better goaltending. Our goalies do not have that and feel they have to do too much. For example, if UPL or Levi leave a rebound and it gets banged in by some guy moving past our D, he starts to think I can't leave that rebound and he tries too hard to eat the puck and that might not be the best way to make the save. Ullmark on the other hand just gets some part of himself in the puck's way and he feels confident Carlo or MacAvoy or whoever will take that rebound away. I'm being a little reductionist to illustrate the point but I think that's the general crux of it in terms of what you're asking. 

Improve our team D and the goaltending will magically improve drastically. 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sadly the goaltending is not substantively better than last season.  UPL is certainly better, but the team’s overall numbers aren’t.

What is better is the defense.  Despite giving up 33 tonight to Pit, the Sabres have given up less HDC per game vs last year and 4 less shots on goal per game.  Our goals against are down from 3.6 to 3.2 which corresponds to the 4 shots less game at the NHL’s 10% shooting %.  
 

 

[pi2000]

10 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

They are in the process of ruining Levi, and now they will begin the process of ruining Benson. It's so great to see that this organization learns from its mistakes. I wish that management could get burned without doing the same things to the fans. I have checked out of the last 3 games and will not be watching tonight. This team, man...

I agree about Levi.   He's certainly a confident kid, but everyone has their breaking point.... especially goaltenders.    I don't believe there has ever been a goalie, at least in recent history to make the jump from college directly to the NHL without spending any development time in the AHL.

Benson is just built different.   The only thing holding him back is physical development.   He plays a more mature game than other Sabre forward who are 4-5 years older than him.     I haven't seen any evidence in his play that would suggest he's in over his head.  That said, to maximize his development I feel juniors would be best.

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Benson is just built different.   The only thing holding him back is physical development.   He plays a more mature game than other Sabre forward who are 4-5 years older than him.     I haven't seen any evidence in his play that would suggest he's in over his head.  That said, to maximize his development I feel juniors would be best.

Dude, you are Old School to a fault.

[MattPie]

On 11/24/2023 at 11:42 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do you honestly think that is going to happen?  He isn't being returned to Jrs.  He is here for the duration of this season and therefore next season as well.  

Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, TNT, JJP, and Quinn are the top forwards on this team when healthy.  That leaves two slots for other forwards in the top 9 and KA is clearly committing to Benson for one of those slots.  It's really that simple.  

I'm not sure I agree, but I also wouldn't be surprised if you're right. If the Sabres get to point that everyone is healthy and they have to send someone down, I could see it being Benson rather than having to put someone through waivers but that's about it.

On 11/24/2023 at 12:50 PM, Taro T said:

And to further that thought, didn't Shane Wright stay in Seattle until the WJC's and then go back to Juniors after they were over?  It's not like keeping a kid past the ELC year burning game automatically means he must be up the entire year.

See Grigorenko, Mikhail. He played 25 for the Sabres in 2012 was sent back to the Q because he wasn't cutting it.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, MattPie said:

I'm not sure I agree, but I also wouldn't be surprised if you're right. If the Sabres get to point that everyone is healthy and they have to send someone down, I could see it being Benson rather than having to put someone through waivers but that's about it.

See Grigorenko, Mikhail. He played 25 for the Sabres in 2012 was sent back to the Q because he wasn't cutting it.

Good call on Grigorenko.  (And the mishandling of Grigorenko - they didn't realize because of the lockout that his window for not burning the ELC was only 5 games was one of the 1st straws on that camel's back that broke oh so long ago.)

They very well could end up sending Benson back to WA after Thompson &/or Quinn are back.  Wouldn't be able to bring him back at all though unless they make a very deep playoff run as the Memorial Cup doesn't end until June this year and that team should Benson go back should be a favorite this year.  Personally, expect he's here all year but wouldn't have any money on it either way.  But using him on the PK shows that the coaching staff has a lot of faith in him.  (And is a big part of why the expectation is he'll be here all year.)

[Doohicksie]

Yes I know the Kane stuff is OBE.  Benson.  Look at the Benson stuff.

[Buffalonill]

6 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yes I know the Kane stuff is OBE.  Benson.  Look at the Benson stuff.

I would hope they would change their mind if he struggling 

[Doohicksie]

53 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I would hope they would change their mind if he struggling 

Well there is a weasel word in there (likely) so I'm sure it's not set in stone.

[#freejame]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yes I know the Kane stuff is OBE.  Benson.  Look at the Benson stuff.

What does OBE mean? 

[Buffalonill]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

What does OBE mean? 

Overbeyond everyone

[Doohicksie]

31 minutes ago, #freejame said:

What does OBE mean? 

Overcome By Events.  Sorry, a common acronym where I work.  I forget not everyone knows it.

(In other words, it's in the past and doesn't matter anymore)

[Buffalonill]

13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Overcome By Events.  Sorry, a common acronym where I work.  I forget not everyone knows it.

(In other words, it's in the past and doesn't matter anymore)

Welp That was definitely a Swing and miss for me .

Twelve o'clock somewhere time to start drinking

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Overcome By Events.  Sorry, a common acronym where I work.  I forget not everyone knows it.

(In other words, it's in the past and doesn't matter anymore)

Overcome by Events.  Oh no, life is happening, what am I to do.   While we’re at it, can we shoot the term “Out of pocket” into the sun.  Just heard 3 different definitions from 3 different age groups. It went from “being broke” to “out of office with limited electronic communication” to “out of your mind”.  If a phrase has that many different interpretations, maybe it just sucks.