It Is Time: Fire the GM, the Coaching Staff, get some experience in here. Fans deserve better!!!

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, seer775 said:

Dahlin is a Norris candidate. Thompson is an 80 point player, Skinner a 40 goal scorer, Cozens is gritty and a skilled player at 22 years old. Mittlestadt is a great bottom-6 playmaking centre. Quinn and JJP are showing great potential in terms of offense. Power is pretty darn good at 20. Levi and UPL are also showing signs of growth at young ages. Tuch is a steal at <5 mil. We have a lot of valuable assets. 

Our team has been horrendously mismanaged since Briere and Drury walked. We only saw signs of improvement when Eichel was injured and we've been growing since then. Plus, we have a ton of upcoming talent that will grow with our core.

We aren't going to be good for like 3-4 years. We have young, high calibre talent at bargain rates. The salary cap is going up. Water the seeds every day, give them sunlight, and they will grow. Throw a little fertilizer in the mix (i.e someone to teach proper defense and how to be tough) and we have a team that will resemble the 05-06 Sabres.

I really like your optimism but the last paragraph is nonsense. 

You want to improve the team right now: 

1.   Get an NHL goalie

2.  Improve on the bottom 6.   Replace Krebs, Jost, KO, and VO with better players.  Collectively they are not good enough, you can see it every night. (Actually, Jost is at least working hard).  

3.  Add a tough stay at home defenseman to the mix 

To do this some current roster players, some draft picks, and some prospects, will have to be moved.  We have plenty.   

Why do we need to wait another 3-4 years?   So some "prospects" will make the team and join a veteran group that has never accomplished a thing?  

Just like Eichel and the old core, we are going to kill the current core.  In 3 to 4 years Dahlin, Tage, Cozens, Mitts and Power will either want out or they will stagnate as players if we continue to lose and not make the playoffs.   No one will want to play in Buffalo accept for marginal NHL JAGs. 

A GM that can get the right chemistry and skills is what we need most.  

[Carmel Corn]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I really like your optimism but the last paragraph is nonsense. 

You want to improve the team right now: 

1.   Get an NHL goalie

2.  Improve on the bottom 6.   Replace Krebs, Jost, KO, and VO with better players.  Collectively they are not good enough, you can see it every night. (Actually, Jost is at least working hard).  

3.  Add a tough stay at home defenseman to the mix 

To do this some current roster players, some draft picks, and some prospects, will have to be moved.  We have plenty.   

Why do we need to wait another 3-4 years?   So some "prospects" will make the team and join a veteran group that has never accomplished a thing?  

Just like Eichel and the old core, we are going to kill the current core.  In 3 to 4 years Dahlin, Tage, Cozens, Mitts and Power will either want out or they will stagnate as players if we continue to lose and not make the playoffs.   No one will want to play in Buffalo accept for marginal NHL JAGs. 

A GM that can get the right chemistry and skills is what we need most.  

I agree for the most  part, but as the theme of the thread is about coaching....I would be of the opinion that a coaching staff change is still needed in addition to the personnel moves you laid out.  Yes it's possible Granato might get this team to the playoffs, but I have my doubts he can achieve any more than that.

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I agree for the most  part, but as the theme of the thread is about coaching....I would be of the opinion that a coaching staff change is still needed in addition to the personnel moves you laid out.  Yes it's possible Granato might get this team to the playoffs, but I have my doubts he can achieve any more than that.

A confident and experienced NHL coach will request similar changes. A first year coach or a desperate retread will go along for awhile.  

They talk about these needs on TNT and NHLN and on almost every national outlet in Canada and the US.  Everyone is wrong accept Adam’s I guess?  

Edited November 18, 2023 by Pimlach

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I really like your optimism but the last paragraph is nonsense. 

You want to improve the team right now: 

1.   Get an NHL goalie

2.  Improve on the bottom 6.   Replace Krebs, Jost, KO, and VO with better players.  Collectively they are not good enough, you can see it every night. (Actually, Jost is at least working hard).  

3.  Add a tough stay at home defenseman to the mix 

To do this some current roster players, some draft picks, and some prospects, will have to be moved.  We have plenty.   

Why do we need to wait another 3-4 years?   So some "prospects" will make the team and join a veteran group that has never accomplished a thing?  

Just like Eichel and the old core, we are going to kill the current core.  In 3 to 4 years Dahlin, Tage, Cozens, Mitts and Power will either want out or they will stagnate as players if we continue to lose and not make the playoffs.   No one will want to play in Buffalo accept for marginal NHL JAGs. 

A GM that can get the right chemistry and skills is what we need most.  

Our first line would also be past it’s prime 

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Our first line would also be past it’s prime 

Yes.  Skinner will be gone most likely.  The Sabres, Adams in particular, have sold this waiting concept.  No one waits, if you are not getting better you are getting worse.  

The waiting is the hardest part ...

 

 

 

[pi2000]

They need an experienced HC who can implement a system.    This fire wagon style of hockey is fun, but it isn't winning hockey.  EJ alluded to this early on in the season.

That and a goaltender and I like our chances.

[PerreaultForever]

12 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Would you say a team that doesn't make the semis had a successful season? No, that's nonsensical.

Success is relative, but it's based on improvement from the previous season. You can set the bar higher if you are ambitious or demanding but generally it is doing better than before. Thus, for the Leafs, it's not about making the playoffs it's about winning in the playoffs. For the Sabres, since we missed by a point it's about making the playoffs. If we don't, it's a fail. If we do, it's progress and a success. You move forward from there until you get to it's about winning the cup.

Right now Granato has a sub .500 win percentage for his time as Sabres coach. Most teams would have fired him for that already. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, seer775 said:

Would you say a team that doesn't make the semis had a successful season? No, that's nonsensical.

Having more capspace allows us to lock in talent in other places where it is required, namely bottom 6 F, bottom 4D. Having young promising talent allows our GM the time required to improve the rest of the roster. Timing is the key.

Yes I think just making the playoffs would be very successful. At least from the perspective of the fan experience. Certainly from the team’s as well given their inability to do so in 12 years. Clearly they’ve proven it to be a hurdle worth striving for. Probably best to stabilize that level of success before aiming higher.

Maybe final 4 is the only success worth living if you are the Vegas Golden Knights and a fan of that club, but the Sabres have proven that success for them necessarily, for now, would be represented by a much more modest achievement 

It’s not inability to win the cup that is breaking fans’ resolve, it’s the utter lack of competitiveness. If you need a cup to justify the existence of a being a fan, you have picked the wrong hobby as it very well may never happen. A team that makes the playoffs every year and at least gives themselves, and the fans, the feeling of having a chance every year is really all I ask for. 

The Tank didn’t just fail, it definitively brought home the idea that “we aren’t going to win the cup this year anyways” was always a bankrupt and poisonous line of thought.

Just be a reasonable hockey team. Everything beyond that is gravy. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Thorny

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Yes I think just making the playoffs would be very successful. At least from the perspective of the fan experience. Certainly from the team’s as well given their inability to do so in 12 years. Clearly they’ve proven it to be a hurdle worth striving for. Probably best to stabilize that level of success before aiming higher.

Maybe final 4 is the only success worth living if you are the Vegas Golden Knights and a fan of that club, but the Sabres have proven that success for them necessarily, for now, would be represented by a much more modest achievement 

It’s not inability to win the cup that is breaking fans’ resolve, it’s the utter lack of competitiveness. If you need a cup to justify the existence of a being a fan, you have picked the wrong hobby as it very well may never happen. A teams that makes the playoffs every year and at least gives themselves, and the fans, the feeling of having a chance every year is really all I ask for. 

The Tank didn’t just fail, it definitively brought home the idea that “we aren’t going to win the cup this year anyways” was always a bankrupt and poisonous line of thought.

Just be a reasonable hockey team. Everything beyond that is gravy. 

[fiftyone]

In chicago for the game tomorrow and am at a bar with Donnie, Kevyn, Brad May and likely other Sabres people that I'm not aware of.

I say this to support not firing them, they seem to be having a good time. That is all. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s not inability to win the cup that is breaking fans’ resolve, it’s the utter lack of competitiveness. If you need a cup to justify the existence of a being a fan, you have picked the wrong hobby as it very well may never happen. A team that makes the playoffs every year and at least gives themselves, and the fans, the feeling of having a chance every year is really all I ask for. 

I agree with this, mostly. I just don't want to be the Leafs. If we ever get good enough to be a playoff team I don't want to be a regular season team like they are. It wouldn't be frustrating the first year, maybe not for a few years, but eventually it would be almost as bad as this. 

[thewookie1]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I agree with this, mostly. I just don't want to be the Leafs. If we ever get good enough to be a playoff team I don't want to be a regular season team like they are. It wouldn't be frustrating the first year, maybe not for a few years, but eventually it would be almost as bad as this. 

Effectively that was akin to 07-08 until our tank years.

[Thorner]

On 11/18/2023 at 9:28 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I agree with this, mostly. I just don't want to be the Leafs. If we ever get good enough to be a playoff team I don't want to be a regular season team like they are. It wouldn't be frustrating the first year, maybe not for a few years, but eventually it would be almost as bad as this. 

Nah, having lived through it, nothing is close to as bad as this. I’ll take heroic runs for 8th thank you very much 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

Nah, having lived through it, nothing is close to as bad as this. I’ll take heroic runs for 8th thank you very much 

I have to disagree in part. If we finally one day make the playoffs and then it's just Leaf style exits for years after the window will slam shut on us before these guys get anywhere and then it'll end up another de-re-construction. I guess (in a way) that's better than no playoffs, but after a few years it'll suck in a whole different way.

[Thorner]

43 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have to disagree in part. If we finally one day make the playoffs and then it's just Leaf style exits for years after the window will slam shut on us before these guys get anywhere and then it'll end up another de-re-construction. I guess (in a way) that's better than no playoffs, but after a few years it'll suck in a whole different way.

I don’t even need the “window to be open”. I just want to have a window to look through, at all, in this dreary never ending basement 

[PerreaultForever]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:37 PM, pi2000 said:

They need an experienced HC who can implement a system.    This fire wagon style of hockey is fun, but it isn't winning hockey.  EJ alluded to this early on in the season.

That and a goaltender and I like our chances.

Yes, but that's a very big "that". 

[steveoat87]

This team is too hit or miss -- mainly miss.  Typically look unprepared and take too long to get into the swing of things.  This is coaching.  When you look at a team like Colorado or the Rangers, look at how disciplined they look.  We look like slackers.  This coach has served his purpose, but its time to move on.

 

Enough of the holding of prospects.  All winning teams use prospects to gain better players and only hold onto those who truly serve a purpose.  We need some grit and some leaders, both players and coaches.  Much of the talent is there, but we need some grit.  Look at the Knicks for a good example of this.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

52 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

This team is too hit or miss -- mainly miss.  Typically look unprepared and take too long to get into the swing of things.  This is coaching.  When you look at a team like Colorado or the Rangers, look at how disciplined they look.  We look like slackers.  This coach has served his purpose, but its time to move on.

 

Enough of the holding of prospects.  All winning teams use prospects to gain better players and only hold onto those who truly serve a purpose.  We need some grit and some leaders, both players and coaches.  Much of the talent is there, but we need some grit.  Look at the Knicks for a good example of this.

With respect ..

The Sabres best overall game so far this season was against The Rockies (or whatever they are called now in Colorado).  They played the Rangers pretty well too.

The Sabres are not a winning team yet and are not to the point where they are ready to dump some prospects to get the final vet pieces to try to get the cup.  Actually, the times that the Sabres have been on the cusp (hey @PASabreFan) they have not done that.  I doubt they will anytime soon.  The Sabres do have some sandpaper in the lineup, but they are not sure how best to harness it yet.

[Sabres Super Fan]

No the Buffalo Sabres coaches get until the end of the season. If they fail to make the playoffs again than fire them at the end of the season in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[LabattBlue]

6 minutes ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

No the Buffalo Sabres coaches get until the end of the season. If they fail to make the playoffs again than fire them at the end of the season in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

What about the GM?   Should he also be fired if they miss the playoffs?

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

What about the GM?   Should he also be fired if they miss the playoffs?

Not for failing on that expectation once. But you know how the old saying goes 

“fool me once, shame on..shame on..you..? Point is, we can’t get fooled again.” If we miss next year on that expectation again, we’d be fools to let him get a 6th season imo 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What about the GM?   Should he also be fired if they miss the playoffs?

Adams should get 1 additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

Considering Granato didn't make any adjustments to his staff this past off-season even though STs were a joke last year, he should not get an additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

But fully expect that Granato gets 1 more fail and Adams gets 2.

And, can fully understand the sentiment that Adams should be gone with a miss this year because he made the margin for error much smaller than it needed to be by not making any moves at the F rank nor the G rank.  (Figuring the moves that were made at the end of the year would be enough for this year, even after Quinn's training injury.)

 

And, with all that said, still believe this team winds up ~103 and in the playoffs.  Sometime around the flip of the calendar, this team will find another gear.  The D pairings will be settling in, the team should be used to doing what they're getting asked in the D zone, the goalies will fully understand what they're up against, and a couple of key pieces missing from the top 6 should be back.

[Cityo'Rasmii]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Adams should get 1 additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

Considering Granato didn't make any adjustments to his staff this past off-season even though STs were a joke last year, he should not get an additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

But fully expect that Granato gets 1 more fail and Adams gets 2.

And, can fully understand the sentiment that Adams should be gone with a miss this year because he made the margin for error much smaller than it needed to be by not making any moves at the F rank nor the G rank.  (Figuring the moves that were made at the end of the year would be enough for this year, even after Quinn's training injury.)

 

And, with all that said, still believe this team winds up ~103 and in the playoffs.  Sometime around the flip of the calendar, this team will find another gear.  The D pairings will be settling in, the team should be used to doing what they're getting asked in the D zone, the goalies will fully understand what they're up against, and a couple of key pieces missing from the top 6 should be back.

I'll take a dose of your optimism @Taro T, please
go Sabres

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Adams should get 1 additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

Considering Granato didn't make any adjustments to his staff this past off-season even though STs were a joke last year, he should not get an additional fail IF they miss the playoffs this year.

But fully expect that Granato gets 1 more fail and Adams gets 2.

And, can fully understand the sentiment that Adams should be gone with a miss this year because he made the margin for error much smaller than it needed to be by not making any moves at the F rank nor the G rank.  (Figuring the moves that were made at the end of the year would be enough for this year, even after Quinn's training injury.)

 

And, with all that said, still believe this team winds up ~103 and in the playoffs.  Sometime around the flip of the calendar, this team will find another gear.  The D pairings will be settling in, the team should be used to doing what they're getting asked in the D zone, the goalies will fully understand what they're up against, and a couple of key pieces missing from the top 6 should be back.

So Adams gets a reprieve for a miss this year AND next? Or “2 fails” as in he can fail this year but a hypothetical fail number 2, next year, has him out?  

Edited November 22, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So Adams gets a reprieve for a miss this year AND next? Or “2 fails” as in he can fail this year but a hypothetical fail number 2, next year, has him out?  

IF they miss the playoffs this year and next Adams should be gone.  (Realize, rereading it that wasn't as clear as it should've been.)

EXPECT he'd get to come back after 2 playoff misses because Granato will be the sacrificial lamb after fail #2.